Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Albino Squirrel wrote: This makes their decision to put rifles in strips on the infantry sprue even more baffling. You were going to end up with may more than you'd ever need already. Now you're going to replace the strip ones with these anyway. Really reduces the value of that infantry box since it makes you buy a bunch of stuff you aren't going to use.
It baffled me when I mentioned it on the first page of this discussion but, even though they were Light Infantry and are famous for skirmishing, the 60th and 95th Rifles were just as capable as forming line with regular battalions.
Maybe the 95th were included in Line formation because Warlord is a British Company and, thanks to Bernard Cornwell and Sean Bean, us Brits love a Greenjacket.
I'm going to guess that the riflemen are in line formation ... because they fought in line for most of the day.
Correct. My gut instinct still lies with the Rifles being included in this box rather than, say, the Highlanders or even one of the Hanoverian or Netherlands Regiments is due to the Sharpe effect.
And sales. A gamer can now buy the Highlanders and skirmishing Rifles separately.
kodos wrote: this it the strange thing about this lineup, some units like the 95th in formation, are mostly exclusive to Waterloo, while others are not meant to be there at all
Seems like they just called it "Waterloo" for the branding. The only reason why I can think they didn't just call it Epic Battles: Napoleonics is because GMT's Command & Colours: EPIC Napoleonic is already a thing, maybe it'd be tough to try and get the rights to that, or dispute it?
The inclusion of the 95th does seem like they've shot themselves in the foot. It would have been smarter just to have a resin 95th box with a couple units in line and a couple units skirmishing, then you'd guarantee everyone would buy a box of that. Maybe if you're not a button-counter you could just paint the 95th units as regular light infantry? But even then, dedicated light infantry regiments weren't fielded in a 1:3 ratio.
At least the voltigeurs in the French box come in skirmishing formation.
Hmm I'm not sure what is meant about "others are not meant to be there at all" as I'm pretty sure every unit in these sets contains units that were at Waterloo, unless I am somehow mistaken (please correct me if I am).
In terms of the infantry kerfuffle...
It's obvious that the rifles are in line because they spent most of the battle of Waterloo fighting in line (and in square). Having them be in skirmish order for a Waterloo box would not make much sense for the battle overall. The fact Warlord is making a separate set for skirmishing rifles is great for the few times they were in skirmish order during the battle (if memory serves they formed skirmish at the end of the battle to harass fleeing French units)
As for the British sprue layout, it seems to me that the produced configuration makes the most sense; each sprue is a single British line battalion (four stands, of eight "rank" pieces) and one stand (two "ranks") of rifles; with three sprues you have three regular sized line units (of four stands) and one small sized rifle unit (of three stands). Reducing the sprue to one "rank" of rifles would mean you'd need to double the number of British Waterloo sprues to get a small unit of rifles. Considering there were three battalions of the 95th at Waterloo, it works rather well (plus two KGL light rifle battalions, and at this scale, not sure one would notice the difference of the shako)
(to be fair, I think I'd prefer one "rank" of rifles and one "rank" of another unit - but then I'm sure the internet would switch the complaint that "how dare they include a small unit of rifles in this box!" to "how dare they include two unplayable units in this box, it's a cash grab to make you buy multiple boxes!" along with sacrificing the two unique "rank" rifle sculpts to a single repeated "rank" sculpt... or if they substituted another unit entirely, the criticism would be "the rifles are iconic! it's a cash grab to make us buy rifles separately. who cares about these highlanders!" - see above post )
French wise, Voltigeurs would also make no sense being a separate line anyway as they were merely a single company of an infantry battalion that was thrown forward to screen the battalion, and reformed into line (the left company) when engaged. The French sprues already have the flank companies represented on the sprues (the right company "rank" piece has a wing of grenadiers, the left company "rank" piece has a wing of Voltigeurs), which conforms to Black Powder rules (Voltigeurs skirmishing are represented by a handful of fellas in front of the unit in question; you don't physically break apart the unit left company or anything)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/01 19:35:29
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
judgedoug wrote: Hmm I'm not sure what is meant about "others are not meant to be there at all" as I'm pretty sure every unit in these sets contains units that were at Waterloo, unless I am somehow mistaken (please correct me if I am).
the Dragons were there but not used and there were only 2 regiments of Carabiniers, but you need more of those boxes to get enough Cuirassiers and get more Carabiniers than exited
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
As to the Rifles issue: don't forget you can use them also to represent KGL light infantry or Hannoverian units in such uniform. There were quite a few units at Waterloo that look almost identical at this scale.
So nothing is for the trash bin if you buy several sets.
Human ambassador of Cats on earth. All hail our feline overlords!!!
judgedoug wrote: Hmm I'm not sure what is meant about "others are not meant to be there at all" as I'm pretty sure every unit in these sets contains units that were at Waterloo, unless I am somehow mistaken (please correct me if I am).
the Dragons were there but not used and there were only 2 regiments of Carabiniers, but you need more of those boxes to get enough Cuirassiers and get more Carabiniers than exited
Whether they were used or not the Regiment de Dragons were definitely present - I believe fourteen regiments in total across five cavalry divisions? You are correct on the Carabiniers, only two regiments were present, but I think this again goes to the sprue design - the numbers would be wonky (not enough models for bases, less sculpts, etc).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well here's John Stallard talking about all the internet complaints about 95th in line, extra carabiniers, plus upcoming releases, etc:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/03 17:36:24
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
judgedoug wrote: You are correct on the Carabiniers, only two regiments were present, but I think this again goes to the sprue design - the numbers would be wonky (not enough models for bases, less sculpts, etc).
the problem with them is not that just 2 were present, there ever only exited 2 of them, so even on any other battle you would have more than you ever need
those are a unit were nobody would have had any problem if they would come in resin, as a single box would have been all you ever needed
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
French dragoon regiments were there, as were more chasseur a' cheval regiments than I thought. It looks like you'd only need a company of Guard Engineers though.
kodos wrote: those are a unit were nobody would have had any problem if they would come in resin, as a single box would have been all you ever needed
I'm not sure I agree: if using the internet has taught me anything it is that grumblers will grumble; the complaint would then be "cash grab because Warlord knows people would want them so they make us buy another box", (re alphaecho's previous comment about how highlanders weren't on the sprue for sales reasons, "gamers can buy the highlanders separately")
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/03 18:48:25
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
John Stallard's video I posted above is worth watching - and I will lose my mind with an Austerlitz or Borodino set. I already have a massive Austrian army in 28mm (painted) and an even more massive Russian army in 28mm (unpainted... in a big box... in my attic?) but would immediately buy it all again (and more) in "epic" scale, just because those campaigns are so cool
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
judgedoug wrote: John Stallard's video I posted above is worth watching - and I will lose my mind with an Austerlitz or Borodino set. I already have a massive Austrian army in 28mm (painted) and an even more massive Russian army in 28mm (unpainted... in a big box... in my attic?) but would immediately buy it all again (and more) in "epic" scale, just because those campaigns are so cool
Beats my box of 28mm Rifles from Wargames Atlantic.
They posted pictures to Twitter showing the process is underway, but the official statement is "end of" January so likely sometime the week of the 24th officially.
kodos wrote: the same as with 28mm, you just have more models on each base if you go by the suggestions of Warlord and Black Powder
When talking about "scale" they mean how tall the average dude is, for example 28mm (well closer to 32mm now) for Warhammer.
and why does the model height matter for the matt size? as the important part for how large a matt needs to be is the size of the bases and how many bases/units are on the table
most matts aimed for 15mm will be too small to play BlackPowder with the Epic models, as 48x72 is still the minimum size
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 18:38:26
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
I wonder if Warlord Games plans a similary system for Bolt Action as "15mm" mass battle to replace FoW after Battlefront hates their old playerbase with their new North Africa V4 WoT Edition Compilation ghak.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 19:11:18
RazorEdge wrote: I wonder if Warlord Games plans a similary system for Bolt Action as "15mm" mass battle to replace FoW after Battlefront hates their old playerbase with their new North Africa V4 WoT Edition Compilation ghak.
You mean the old fan base that was around first time the Midwar Monsters came out in 2013?
RazorEdge wrote: I wonder if Warlord Games plans a similary system for Bolt Action as "15mm" mass battle to replace FoW after Battlefront hates their old playerbase with their new North Africa V4 WoT Edition Compilation ghak.
It's probably only a matter of time. Bolt Action and Legion seem to have replaced Warmahordes for the first place 40k refugees end up and with Epic very much being a gateway drug for under-28mm games they'd be coocoo not to take advantage of it.
I know, I know, there's no lack of WW2 in literally every conceivable scale but Warlord would, like with ACW/Waterloo, be selling their name to lure in a bigger audience.
Most likely it would be some weird niche scale (like their 13.5mm ACW/Waterloo). Maybe 18.5mm since BA scales down pretty well outside of infantry still being individuals and Plastic Soldier Company are already doing 20mm.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 22:39:57
There's an announced Coming Soon product that's supposed to combine Bolt Action, Blood Red Skies, and Victory at Sea. Warlord is definitely not moving away from World War 2 anytime soon.
)
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
Deathwatch 
AdMech 
Necron
