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To actual narrative support from GW in every codex?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, that was snarky.

I agree that how the ITC style has swallowed up the perfectly fine matched play rules from before is a problem, but GW is the one who decided that everyone plays that way now, not the players.

I'm fairly sure that a lot of people would play CA2018-style missions if they were printed in the BRB instead of the secondary/primary gameplay style from GT2021.

 Jidmah wrote:
but GW is the one who decided that everyone plays that way now, not the players.

You're not American, so sorry, but that's simply untrue over here. The ITC was a pervasive virus the moment it was introduced in 8th that wormed its way into every game at nearly every store across the US. It became the "default" way to play in the US way before 9th edition made it official. If you weren't playing by ITC rules, people seriously thought you were playing wrong.

It's one of those European vs American things that neither side can really stress enough as a difference in gaming culture.

people seriously thought you were playing wrong.

+1 to that.

We tried doing campaigns using full sized boards and non ITC format and every campaign day was drama-day with guys pitching red-faced fits and claiming we were playing 40k wrong and were teaching new players the "wrong way to play".

I won't even get into the trash fire that was the day we did an urban battle with big buildings and streets and lots and lots of terrain like civilian vehicles etc. It looked amazing but you would have swore someone walked through and was laying personal insult to peoples' houses and families for doing it.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Tournaments are such a tiny fraction of the game though. So weird to force everything into that mould.

While I agree, their insidious influence does tend to spread out into casual gaming, unfortunately.

Cancer is more like it tho, malignant and needing to be excised.

How dare anyone have fun in a different way! My way is the one true way to have fun!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
So we're all in agreement. 60x44 for 40k at 2k.

No, 60x44 is the minimum allowed and 2k is just the most common format. That's it, nothing more.

The game works perfectly by using larger tables and/or smaller formats.

The game works very poorly at a small scale. I played a 500 point game the other day and it wasn't enjoyable. I would much rather play any of GW skirmish systems if there's only going to be 10-12 models per side.

Toofast wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Tournaments are such a tiny fraction of the game though. So weird to force everything into that mould.

While I agree, their insidious influence does tend to spread out into casual gaming, unfortunately.

Cancer is more like it tho, malignant and needing to be excised.

How dare anyone have fun in a different way! My way is the one true way to have fun!

Not my way, you can excise the cancer and stop it spreading or you can continue down the current road and get more and more broken BS that the weak-minded lap up and salivate like a Pavlov dog at the mere mention of...

If GW was interested in making a balanced, competitive game they might be able to. But unfortunately for everyone interested in that, GW doesn't seem to be.

Toofast wrote:


The game works very poorly at a small scale. I played a 500 point game the other day and it wasn't enjoyable. I would much rather play any of GW skirmish systems if there's only going to be 10-12 models per side.

Yeah, 500 points is quite extreme but 1000-1250-1500 are all formats that work fine. Arguably better than 2000.

If GW was interested in making a balanced, competitive game they might be able to

It doesn't sell nearly as well. If the game were balanced people wouldn't need to churn new armies regularly.

When I did the azyr point system for AOS on AOS release - the #1 complaint levied against the azyr system was "balance is boring, you killed listbuilding - listbuilding doesn't matter with your system because everything is too balanced that its not fun".

People enjoy listbuilding and trying to win the game before the game starts. That started wtih magic the gathering in the 90s and bled into tabletop gaming in the 2000s and reached its zenith and continues to ride today as a very popular way of designing games because it sells wildly well.

*speaking as someone in the games dev industry - when we design games often we have rules to make some form of imbalance exist for that very purpose. Marketing. It sells ridiculously well - people like feeling clever by building power lists and winning with them.

This is exactly my point. It's imbalanced and constantly shifting ON PURPOSE!

If you reward the company with "consume mass quantities" you will get only mass quantities.

Don't fall for the glamour and "Don't believe the hype!"(but said like Flava Flav)

Totally agree.

But I don't see that reward ever stopping for gw, the player base steam shovels cash to them for their product. They have no incentive to stop with the imbalance... its made them the #1 tabletop gaming daddy on the market.

Which is why I pay GW what I do for their 40k rules...which is what they're worth, nothing.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Which is why I pay GW what I do for their 40k rules...which is what they're worth, nothing.

When even the big youtubers use wahapedia to get their rules.... should ring some bells at GW HQ. (Sadly it probably means they'll just have their lawyers send angry letter to russia again)

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
Which is why I pay GW what I do for their 40k rules...which is what they're worth, nothing.

When even the big youtubers use wahapedia to get their rules.... should ring some bells at GW HQ. (Sadly it probably means they'll just have their lawyers send angry letter to russia again)

They have to because if you get them from the book, they're probably outdated. For example the Custodes book will be valid for exactly 1 week. 7 days after it releases, another book is coming out that will change points and rules for that army and invalidate a lot of the stuff in their codex. Literally what is the point of making a $50 printed book that will be invalidated by another printed $35 book the following weekend?

Toofast wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:
Which is why I pay GW what I do for their 40k rules...which is what they're worth, nothing.

When even the big youtubers use wahapedia to get their rules.... should ring some bells at GW HQ. (Sadly it probably means they'll just have their lawyers send angry letter to russia again)

They have to because if you get them from the book, they're probably outdated. For example the Custodes book will be valid for exactly 1 week. 7 days after it releases, another book is coming out that will change points and rules for that army and invalidate a lot of the stuff in their codex. Literally what is the point of making a $50 printed book that will be invalidated by another printed $35 book the following weekend?

Cuz idiots and their money are soon parted ways.