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That's some top-drawer nostalgia there, very nice!

Nostalgia turned up to 11! I am building the army I wanted when I was 12! Just 36 years on.

 Platuan4th wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
New sentinels looking less like AT RTs makes sense from a copyright perspective

The current Sentinel design predates the AT-RT even being a thing.

That sort of detail doesn't matter to a sci-fi franchise that is trying to separate itself from an IP that the dreaded mouse controls.

If GW were at all worried about Disney, they wouldn't have given them the comic license. And unlike Disney, GW actually has proof that Marvel stole their IP if Disney wanted to press the issue.

That one spiderman comic was hilariously blatant.

Venom Space Knight IIRC...

The auspex tactics channel just uploaded a video of guard leaks, seems like cadians are still a thing. When I started this hobby back in 90s, I was dreaming about plastic guard models, for every subfaction (mordian, tallarn etc.). And it's probably still possible, the gw has made two policies (no model, no rules) and (no third party models), so it might seem possible they could release other regiments aswell. The one thing I've been thinking, is that instead of having subfaction rules, the guard could have specialized regiments (artillery, mechanised, infantry, armoured, reserve etc.). That way even the players with old collection of miniatures would have options for how to field them.

Nothing new than MordianGlory didn't mention before. So either it's a really well made fake shown to several 40K Ytubers, or it's probably a legit leak of what's coming.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Nothing new than MordianGlory didn't mention before. So either it's a really well made fake shown to several 40K Ytubers, or it's probably a legit leak of what's coming.

M.

which in turn were leaked long ago for the most part.

The new officer & commissar are really the only two new things.

 Spreelock wrote:
The auspex tactics channel just uploaded a video of guard leaks, seems like cadians are still a thing. When I started this hobby back in 90s, I was dreaming about plastic guard models, for every subfaction (mordian, tallarn etc.). And it's probably still possible, the gw has made two policies (no model, no rules) and (no third party models), so it might seem possible they could release other regiments aswell. The one thing I've been thinking, is that instead of having subfaction rules, the guard could have specialized regiments (artillery, mechanised, infantry, armoured, reserve etc.). That way even the players with old collection of miniatures would have options for how to field them.

Subfactions don't exactly count for no model no rules. Or are there subfaction specific custodians? Thousand sons? Grey knights?

Then why would gw print rules for models that haven't been available for decades, yet there are lesser daemons with models and rules, not even starting with marines..

New sister of battle models were teased over a year before thier release… plus squats are releasing earlier through necromunda you wouldn’t place Gw teaser articles as reference for release date… in particular I don’t think world eaters are getting a big model release and that should be released before the large squat 40K army release. Regardless it feels like Guard is an early 2023 release and maybe the last 9th edition codex.

tneva82 wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
The auspex tactics channel just uploaded a video of guard leaks, seems like cadians are still a thing. When I started this hobby back in 90s, I was dreaming about plastic guard models, for every subfaction (mordian, tallarn etc.). And it's probably still possible, the gw has made two policies (no model, no rules) and (no third party models), so it might seem possible they could release other regiments aswell. The one thing I've been thinking, is that instead of having subfaction rules, the guard could have specialized regiments (artillery, mechanised, infantry, armoured, reserve etc.). That way even the players with old collection of miniatures would have options for how to field them.

Subfactions don't exactly count for no model no rules. Or are there subfaction specific custodians? Thousand sons? Grey knights?

For most armies subfactions are just a paint job. Paint your guys red for special rules. For guard you need greatcoats and fuzzy hats for some rules, biceps and bandannas for others.

 Platuan4th wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
New sentinels looking less like AT RTs makes sense from a copyright perspective

The current Sentinel design predates the AT-RT even being a thing.

That sort of detail doesn't matter to a sci-fi franchise that is trying to separate itself from an IP that the dreaded mouse controls.

If GW were at all worried about Disney, they wouldn't have given them the comic license. And unlike Disney, GW actually has proof that Marvel stole their IP if Disney wanted to press the issue.

Before the comic deal, a marvel artist literally stole 40k designs. Dude didn’t even bother changing tau logo on the ships. But I dont think gw ever did anything about it

tneva82 wrote:
Subfactions don't exactly count for no model no rules. Or are there subfaction specific custodians? Thousand sons? Grey knights?

Buuuut.... IG had other regiment models. There are several companies that exist solely to make other regiments of guard. Hell at a con Anvil turned up with the off cuts bits box and you could make whatever soldier you wanted (my hankering to create a sci-fi Sikh sniper taking a break and having a drink on a broken gun carriage was sated). GW has form in killing off fun stuff that has even a hint of a different model.

Death Korps got their Infantry kit and are rumoured to get more. Could be a sign.
GW just needs to keep the converted Regiment examples in the Codex to remind people that Cadians, Catachans, and Krieg aren't the only options.

The Astra militarum is currently stuck with 3 subfaction (death korps, catachan, cadians) and tempestus scions to some extend. How would other factions do in the same situation?

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd like to see more subfaction get models and rules, but I don't think kitbashing is a good option. It costs a lot of money. Same goes with buying from eBay older collections of guard. The price is somewhere between 6-10 euros per model. That is nuts!

The Astra militarum surely needs more options and models, but in reasonable price for consumers, and businesses. I'm not saying that the only option is to re-make all of the old regiments (check my previous post above), but why even bother with writing the rules for something that has been oop for so long. Seems like a big joke.

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
New sentinels looking less like AT RTs makes sense from a copyright perspective

The current Sentinel design predates the AT-RT even being a thing.

That sort of detail doesn't matter to a sci-fi franchise that is trying to separate itself from an IP that the dreaded mouse controls.

If GW were at all worried about Disney, they wouldn't have given them the comic license. And unlike Disney, GW actually has proof that Marvel stole their IP if Disney wanted to press the issue.

Before the comic deal, a marvel artist literally stole 40k designs. Dude didn’t even bother changing tau logo on the ships. But I dont think gw ever did anything about it

That's...

That's literally what the second sentence of my post is about.

GW's bias and focus towards marines and the redundancy of their range is kinda the opposite of what they did with guard. Outside of the vehicles, the guard range is very unfocused and lacks cohesion in terms of both the models and the rules for how the army is supposed to look like, with only a weird band-aid upgrade sprue to try and make the old Cadian box work and Catachans still being weird roided-up messes. Death Korps are a nice addition but then lack enough support for a command/HW kit as well gunner options for vehicles. Then for things like the SWS, veterans and conscripts you have to basically figure out for yourself which can be confusing for a newcomer. GW really need a proper range update for the faction rather than a half-assed 2-3 unit refresh like they did in the past.

 Spreelock wrote:
The Astra militarum surely needs more options and models, but in reasonable price for consumers, and businesses. I'm not saying that the only option is to re-make all of the old regiments (check my previous post above), but why even bother with writing the rules for something that has been oop for so long. Seems like a big joke.

OOP for so long? Most, if not all apart from the Praetorians, had their Infantry Squad box available via Mail Order when the 8th ed IG book came out.

GW then made them OOP within a few months, in another stroke of pure, unadulterated genius...

 Olthannon wrote:
As I posted way earlier in this thread, yes I would love to see more regiments. It's the main interesting thing about the guard. The Cadians are boring. It's why I keep saying they should do away with them. But I've had Kanluwen up my ass saying the Cadians are here forever.

However, seeing as I don't see GW really giving us multiple options in one kit, then at least a fresh pattern of guard kit would be slightly more interesting than more Cadians.

Well, they could make new Cadians that look like the 2nd ed metals. You'd get something different from the current Cadians and I'd get my cool Cadians back. And we'd still be stuck with Cadians forever, so everyone wins!

I guess with GW it's a problem of having really low expectations after a model was left to languish for too long. GW could totally provide us with different regiments if they wanted to. They could have totally made new Cadians and Catachans with fixed proportions in the last years that saw a trend for better human infantry such as Genestealer cultists. They could consolidate regiments with similar uniforms into multi-regiment kits. It's really bogus that GW figured that Guard should be stuck with models that weren't good at the time of release, and when they finally do something like the new Krieg, it's in a way that you don't get all the necessary infantry options.

 Geifer wrote:

Well, they could make new Cadians that look like the 2nd ed metals.

I would rebuy all my infantry models if they did that, and I have almost 500 of them.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Spreelock wrote:
The Astra militarum surely needs more options and models, but in reasonable price for consumers, and businesses. I'm not saying that the only option is to re-make all of the old regiments (check my previous post above), but why even bother with writing the rules for something that has been oop for so long. Seems like a big joke.

OOP for so long? Most, if not all apart from the Praetorians, had their Infantry Squad box available via Mail Order when the 8th ed IG book came out.

GW then made them OOP within a few months, in another stroke of pure, unadulterated genius...

And what was the price of ten metal guardsman in the era of primaris plastic? Yeah, they've popped up couple of occasion, but that's nothing to build an army around. The last time I've seen.. let's say, mordian mortar team.. available in stores was early 2000.

The catachan are fine, but could definitely use refresh. The cadians are even better, I've collected an army of them, and I'm kinda ok with them. The death korps and scions are awesome, but need support of heavy weapons team and command squad.

Lot of complaining here, but you all need to realize that just because a company can do something, doesn't mean they should. If they think they can get X% return on an investment in refreshing AM line, but 1.2*X% investing in a different line, the resources will go there. They then go through the list of all possible investments, based on their strategic priorities, until they run out of resources that can be allocated. So we then have to wait until AM gets on that list (which clearly it has, just waiting to see to what degree).

One thing that has probably really hurt the numbers here, is the limited ability to IP-lock something like Guard when there are so many 3rd party alternatives. I know it sucks, and we all wish that the hobby was more art-centric than business-centric, but the fact is is that it's not, and GW has to focus on investing in what will give them the best returns.

That's not to say GW is perfect at this (oh no) and plenty to criticize their choices, as long as it's within the above paradigm (for example: maintaining a fanbase on a less-than profitable line as part of a longer strategic vision, or how much cash they hold in reserve vs invest in their product lines).

Yes, that is very clear, business might come first in these terms, but the problem is that they keep publishing rules for the models that are unavailable. And even more to that, they've made policies for (no third party models) and (no model no rules). How on earth are you expected to play with tallarn, for example?

 Spreelock wrote:
How on earth are you expected to play with tallarn, for example?

I suspect it is the intersection of legacy inertia (lore, previous OOP metal and then FW resin miniatures) keeping the rules in place, but without a solid plan to generate a new plastic line that will provide enough of a return when competing with all the other not-Tallarn models that already exist. They either come up with a solution to that problem, or weight customer retention higher in their math. It's probably why it's taken so long, and maybe why it won't ever happen.

I don't care anymore; I'm selling all my old Cadians for when WGA's Bulldogs come out. I'm taking my money elsewhere.

I've suggested this before but it's worth considering.

One problem with the IG is that it's one of the easiest armies to sub in models for, almost any modern or near future figures will do. Near future rifleman is about the least protect-able IP out there.

So if I were GW, I would invest in the existing regiments since they have well-defined lore and looks. The Necromunda gangs had the same issue (House Jean Jacket, House Trenchcoat) but GW made them distinct by taking some elements to extremes. They also showed GW can do a pretty complete faction on a single sprue.

So do one sprue per regiment, 5 bodies and options. Do a second sprue of special and heavy weapons for any regiment. Include an alt build for each regiment on the sprue with vet heads, alt weapons etc. Even an officer head and a med pack for command squads (flags take up too much real estate IMHO so skip then).

So Tallarn get a sprue with 10 las guns, and a generic heavy/weapon sprue plus some alternate arms with melta guns and other raiding/sabotage arms.

Mordians get the same+some volley guns and Napoleonic type extras (bugle, drum, some shouldered weapons etc).

Valhallans same plus snipers.

Steel Legion same plus trench raider shot guns and axes.

And so on for as many regiments as GW wants to put out. And if one regiment goes OOP or OOS for a while, so be it.

Then maybe generic conscript sprue and generic command squad in Cadian type uniforms with some overdressed officers and attendants.

And you've got an army.

@ Kid Kyoto: and if they then manage to design the kits in a way that you can mix and match between those... that would be great.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Near future rifleman is about the least protect-able IP out there.

Power-armored soldiers with reasonably-sized shoulder pads and tacticool gear must be on the same level too, yet we all know what happened there...

IDK I feel like more modestly between the trenchcoat base of DKK, the tunic/armor of cadians, and the light armor of catachan, there are a ton that could be adapted about as easily as marine upgrade sprues... ex: creative redesign would allow tallarn, mordian, and praetorian to fit a tunic base...

 Spreelock wrote:
Yes, that is very clear, business might come first in these terms, but the problem is that they keep publishing rules for the models that are unavailable. And even more to that, they've made policies for (no third party models) and (no model no rules). How on earth are you expected to play with tallarn, for example?

Same way as other subfactions? Subfactions in gw games don't generally require specific models. Subfaction is name you put in list.