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Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






The only outdated books I ever look at are 4th edition's codex orks, Imperial Armour 8 (the ork/elysian one), and 8th edition DG. You can be sure that I'm not really looking at the rules in any of them.

I don't think I have opened any of the 7th edition books once after I left the game during that time. I couldn't even tell you where they are. Same goes for the indices. Obsolete rules can just be tossed out, there is no reason to keep them around. The only rules from past editions I actually do care about are narrative missions.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/24 10:27:19


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

So you do care about past rules, just only parts of them.


Interestingly you mentioning the Imperial Armour reminds me that GW actually HAS taken the rules out of their past editions that they've made accessible through the Warhammer Vault system. So we are already there where digital back-access has stripped rules content.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




It feels kind of sacrilegious - but at some point I really should just bin a pile of ancient rule books.

Someone out there may want 6th-8th edition WHFB army books or 5th-8th edition 40k codexes. But anyone really want the Age of Sigmar 1.0 big book? A bunch of MK2 Warmahordes stuff? A big book Infinity put out circa 2015 or so?
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I see secondhand game books sell on ebay all the time.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Overread wrote:
So you do care about past rules, just only parts of them.

None of the rules I care about can be found in codices or any of the BRB - which are precisely the rules that should stop being books and go to digital only.

Narrative rules never get updated anyways, those can stay books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
Interestingly you mentioning the Imperial Armour reminds me that GW actually HAS taken the rules out of their past editions that they've made accessible through the Warhammer Vault system. So we are already there where digital back-access has stripped rules content.


As I said, if GW broke into my house and whited out all the rules from those books, their value for me wouldn't decrease by one cent. I read them for the lore, pictures, silly stories or how an army operates.

I'd probably be sad about the SAG rules being gone, but only because the are rules were mixed in with the descriptions of what each mishap did in the lore.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/24 11:44:05


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





In the past, I'd say about $35-45, or whatever the price of a not-D&D hardcover RPG. Which that RPG book should have a similar if not reduced print run, keeping the profit margins close to GW and whoever is producing the RPG book.

However, I have finally started getting 9th codices, and they feel pretty dire to me. The cardboard or whatever used in the covers feel a lot more floppy and cheap than I am used to hardback books of their size. The two (Necrons and Chaos Knights) I have, also seem pretty thin to me. The CK ones being a few pages less than my 8th ed C:GSC and my C:Necrons having the same number of pages. But that could be me primarily used to my C: CSM and C:SM (I didn't bother with 9th for SM, as 8.5 wasn't even cold product yet).

What I am becoming less tolerant of is layout. I fielded my Necrons for the first time this weekend, so I was doing the usual flipping back-and-forth in the codex to try and not miss anything. Now I knew from Wahapedia, I had a couple of shooting Strats to use with my Warriors, but being new; I didn't remember exactly how they worked. So I went from the Warrior datasheet, through Jay Goldfinch's Crusade Army, through the Crusade Rules, through the Match Played rules, through the army rules, through the Battle-Forged rules to finally find where the Stratagems are. Only to scan through them and find that most shooting strats that Necron Warriors can use are for Rapid Fire weapons (I had all Guass Reapers). And straight up missed my Dynasty strat (Mephrit) as I didn't want to delay the game searching for it. Tangent: there are no examples of what the Mephrit Dynasty color scheme is in the codex. No models or art that I saw; I find that mildly amusing as someone that has a strong 'play the subfaction they are painted' influence for myself.

Now, many of those sections I mention are a page or two. But I don't see why the Crusade (or Matched Play for that matter) should separate Army rules, strats and datasheets. All that could be after that in the back of the book. I am starting to think that unit specific strats should be listed in the datasheet, so players both don't have to go to the strat section and don't have to search through to find them. And in all honestly, I do like Wahapedia's just listing all applicable, but I'll concede that page count and redundancy could be an issue in physical media. I also think I like the idea of all the Subfaction stuff (abilities, Warlord Trait, Relic, Strat(s), etc.) being lumped together. Both for a player to more easily decide which subfaction, as well as, ease of referencing everything a subfaction can take rather than skimming through all the other subfactions _______ to find the subfaction _______ you are using. I could be well off base here since layout and editing aren't my bag, but I really feel the information could be ALOT more user-friendly.

Due to the quick turnaround on codices, their increasing price, my decreasing tolerance for their layout and other issues, I already skip half of the armies I have in 40k. If GW wants my money for their increasingly pricer codices, they are going to have to put more effort in. But seeing as I don't purchase any rules' literature (I probably wouldn't have got a BRB if not for Indomitus) other than codices, I know I am small potatoes. Doubly so, if I am only buying 2 or 3 codices/battletomes my now 7-ish armies across 40k/AoS. And I don't even really care that stuff gets FAQ/Errata'd all the time/weeks after release. The stuff I use the codices for is usually perfectly fine.

Still, I am the sort of person that buys RPG books just to learn about a fictional setting and see how the author(s) went about game mechanics for that setting, with no actual intention of running/playing that game. So it seems GW is doing a pretty bad job, if someone is probably could be labeled a white-knight/CAAC (I'd disagree though) on occasion, isn't willing to spend money on books they would actively use.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I'll vouch for the fluff writing in AoS tomes still being solid. It hasn't been cut to nubs like in 40k.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'll vouch for the fluff writing in AoS tomes still being solid. It hasn't been cut to nubs like in 40k.


Agreed. The short stories in the Slaves to Darkness battletome are quite good. I really enjoyed the path of the Varangaurd one, as well as, the Daemon Prince vs. the Stormcast Eternal one.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




I think the only books that had rules in them I've read the fluff of are Broken Realms Morathi and Fall of Cadia. I've tried to read lore out of other tomes/codex I've come across over the years, (most notably the Chaos books which are always SOMEONE'S favorite) but the writing is generally just okay and often kind of stilted.The actual content is fine sometimes, the Sisters of Battle Codexes have some cool unit description.

They could cut all of it and it would change very little for me. For a battletome I'd say like 20-25 dollars for the rules. I'd pay 30 for spiral bound. Campaign books aren't really a product for me but for a rules supplement like the OoML "book" or the Bloody Rose "Book" I feel like GW paying me 25 dollars for the hassle of pirating the 3 pages of content they made is about fair.


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'll vouch for the fluff writing in AoS tomes still being solid. It hasn't been cut to nubs like in 40k.


Agreed. The short stories in the Slaves to Darkness battletome are quite good. I really enjoyed the path of the Varangaurd one, as well as, the Daemon Prince vs. the Stormcast Eternal one.
Oh yeah, especially the latter for me. The amount of depth and emotion packed into that single-page story is absolutely nuts, I would rate it as one of the better stories I've read from AoS overall despite it's length. If army books regularly delivered content like that I'd be quite happy to pay the prices they ask.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote:
I think the only books that had rules in them I've read the fluff of are Broken Realms Morathi and Fall of Cadia. I've tried to read lore out of other tomes/codex I've come across over the years, (most notably the Chaos books which are always SOMEONE'S favorite) but the writing is generally just okay and often kind of stilted.The actual content is fine sometimes, the Sisters of Battle Codexes have some cool unit description.
I also find myself regarding the writing as OK... until I read the offerings of other companies, be it wargames or RPGs. But then for me a big part of the quality is the quality of the setting being written about, so that is an extra subjective measure on an already subjective topic.

At any rate, I will definitely agree with you on the bias. That is consistently the single biggest thing I dislike about army book lore; the propaganda-like level of slant towards the army at hand. I absolutely understand that an army should be viewed favorably in its own book, but the descriptions quite often cross the line into describing capabilities that clearly aren't true (in either the tabletop rules or actual stories). Though obviously some armies are more victim to this than others. Reading the Custodes fluff was very amusing for me, since marines are already hyped to high heaven in there own lore there is nowhere left to go for the guys that are even better. It was a whole bunch of 'yeah they can do this thing it would take 100 marines to do but with only ONE squad!' then heroes which were like 'yeah they could do this thing it would take 100 marines to do but with only ONE guy!'

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/24 22:31:11


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Well the thing is in the lore before GW brought out the cusodes codex, they were exactly the way they were described in the lore. The problem of course arises when the game and its mechanics, have to coexist with lore. GW did a lot to tone marines, custodes etc down comparing to how they were in the past.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Overread wrote:
Digital can vanish overnight with an update; it can vanish overnight with being removed; it can glitch and crash or be a problem to access just because its older digital technology; in a sector of the world that advances at a very rapid pace.

Lets not forget that when GW killed the old White Dwarf app a couple of years ago, the six or seven people actually using it just lost all of their digital back issues if they hadn't downloaded them.

None of my physical copies have ever just evaporated into the ether because GW pulled a plug.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Lord Damocles wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Digital can vanish overnight with an update; it can vanish overnight with being removed; it can glitch and crash or be a problem to access just because its older digital technology; in a sector of the world that advances at a very rapid pace.

Lets not forget that when GW killed the old White Dwarf app a couple of years ago, the six or seven people actually using it just lost all of their digital back issues if they hadn't downloaded them.

None of my physical copies have ever just evaporated into the ether because GW pulled a plug.


On the flip side, you never loose digital stuff that’s on the cloud if your basement floods.

There are perks to both sides.

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Quick caveat to my above statements about AoS army book quality; the Nighthaunt one is an exception. That one is a soulless, disjointed husk that feels like it was put together by interns. And I mean that quite seriously; I would say it face to face if I could.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Isn't that the most recent one? Does it signal a paradigm shift in AoS books towards less fluff and more pictures/rules?

'Cause 40k got that around the time of the 5th (6th?) Ork 'Dex.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I like having a book in theory because, for me, my hobby time is largely my "no-screen" time. What I don't like in practice is the current big, hardback codices.

1. It's treating a document with a shelf-life of sometimes little more than a year as a premium, long-lasting book, which is horrible both in terms of pricing and from a sustainability perspective.

2. Big hardback books are unwieldy, heavy, and take up a bunch of flat space which is often at a premium on a gaming board.

I'd much rather a softback, or spiral-bound A5 (or thereabouts) Codex that neatly and concisely lays out all the information I need to play a game (put in some army-specific counters too, so I can keep track of stuff in-game, maybe), then maybe a separate, less-frequently-updated lore/nice pictures book for each army. Maybe even bundle them in together, as I'm not *too* keen on the idea of making just raw rules available separately, as a "role-play that gak" kind of guy.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Isn't that the most recent one? Does it signal a paradigm shift in AoS books towards less fluff and more pictures/rules?

'Cause 40k got that around the time of the 5th (6th?) Ork 'Dex.


I'm fairly sure you are thinking about the 7th edition codex, the second worst book to ever be released by GW.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm fairly sure you are thinking about the 7th edition codex, the second worst book to ever be released by GW.
Oh wow... there really was a 2 edition* gap for the Orks. So, yeah, the 7th Edition one is what I'm referring to.



*As much as one can call 6th an "edition", given it was on sale for about 3 and a half days.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/26 10:15:46


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I'd argue that it was a 3 edition gap, considering how orks would have been better off if they simply hadn't gotten a codex in 7th.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




USA

I think value is a bit suggestive. For myself, they have little to no value. The physical books are far too expensive for what they are.
The quality of GW rules is so poor that they will be rewritten immediately after the release of the book. So the rules are worthless.
The lore is mostly just reprinted material. The 4th? 5th? Edition Ork codex was a carbon copy of the 2nd edition one. So if you have access to YouTube and lore channels the lore in the books is worthless.
Then there's the artwork. Some people enjoy digital art. I do not. Personally, each pic by John Blanche drops the value of anything to me exponentially.
Codex IMHO are completely worthless and quite frankly a horribly outdated method of supplying rules to a board game.
   
Made in us
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols





washington state USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
I'm fairly sure you are thinking about the 7th edition codex, the second worst book to ever be released by GW.
Oh wow... there really was a 2 edition* gap for the Orks. So, yeah, the 7th Edition one is what I'm referring to.



*As much as one can call 6th an "edition", given it was on sale for about 3 and a half days.




6th edition

June 23, 2012-May 24, 2014 just short of 2 years

Worst edition ever made by GW (even they realized it). even the core rules of 7th were an improvement before formation spam happened, didn't think they could do worse, then 9th edition happened.


I do love my 4th edition Ork codex. best one they ever made in my opinion especially when combined with the options available from forge world at the time.

I think 90% of my favorite codexes are either 3rd or 4th edition.





GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in tw
Sacrifice to the Dark Gods




Taipei, Taiwan

While I like the physical codices for my armies, I miss being able to buy digital versions of others to read on my iPad. The app (phone only) doesn’t fill that niche, and, since they forced us to physical only, I buy only the essentials, since I don’t want a bunch of heavy books to tote around every time I move.
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block





Used to buy every new codex (that's years and years back) for a fun look through. With current pricing I only buy the codex for armies I play. For Orks, Eldar and GSC I buy limited edition codex, no reason besides I really need them .

Talking about things being expensive and comparing to older prices is pretty useless in my mind, but as stated, it does impact what I buy nowadays. It's a luxury hobby after all.

And buying the physical books for ease of use and because I just like books. For games/tournaments I seldom use them, I make an Excel page of what my army does and print that, just one A4. If anybody doubts the information I got the books with me.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




With GW's model of physical copies? Negative.

It's a 50 year old publishing model that became obsolete 30 years ago. The codexes themselves are awful.

I bought the new Eldar codex and within weeks they had errata. Weeks! Aside from the mechanics the codex regurgitates lore that are almost as old as the publishing model. If I were to spend money on a physical copy of a codex it should at least provide: Good Lore, Good Painting/Sculpting content, and Good Rules. Not Crappy Rules That Will Immediately Be Updated, Handful of Photos and Awkward Flavor Text.

No way I'm doing that gak again. If I want a faction codex I can just pick an older codex up second hand.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 15:20:58


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Would you prefer it if they didn't errata things that are incorrect, or answer FAQs that are raised?

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dysartes wrote:
Would you prefer it if they didn't errata things that are incorrect, or answer FAQs that are raised?

In the number of issues that arise each time? Nah, I'd rather just not pay for a codex, period.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dysartes wrote:
Would you prefer it if they didn't errata things that are incorrect, or answer FAQs that are raised?


We'd rather they playtested to the point that day-1 patches weren't necessary and any changes required were minor.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

To be fair most FAQ/Errata are not that long.

Even shorter when you consider some are just minor changes in wording/stats.


The issue isn't that they do FAQ/Errata. The issue is that with the broken up nature of the rules they end up doing a LOT of FAQ/Errata's.


One way they could make it simpler is to create one document for each faction, then place into that all the FAQ/Errata details for each of the different publications that that faction has rules in currently. Not only does that make it a lot easier to find the information you need as it reduces the headspace needed to sort; not only is it easier for newbies as there's now 1 document not dozens. But it also acks like a current check list of where rules are for the faction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/11 08:59:42


A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







 Overread wrote:
One way they could make it simpler is to create one document for each faction, then place into that all the FAQ/Errata details for each of the different publications that that faction has rules in currently. Not only does that make it a lot easier to find the information you need as it reduces the headspace needed to sort; not only is it easier for newbies as there's now 1 document not dozens. But it also acks like a current check list of where rules are for the faction.

You could include the "valid rules sources" information in there, too - though I'd probably keep a core rulebook file distinct from the faction files.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn White Lion




I remember when they realeased a dark elf army book errata back in the 90s as a paper insert in the book with an "our bad" on it
   
 
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