We Live In A Timeline When Squats Are Getting New Models Before 80% Of IG Regiments

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**Vatsetis**

Removed - rule 1.

**Sim-Life**

warhead01 wrote:
Karol wrote:
Those are skirmish games. Where you make 10 models and forget about them.

For a faction in w40k, the way GW makes them you need at least 6-7 kits and 2-3 HQs. Making even two or three of those, without being sure they will sell , could be a bad investment for GW.

Not to get too far off topic but this is something I have thought about for a while. I don't know when but I would expect Gw to dump f40K for more skirmish games using the same models. the advantage of doing that, seems to me, would be selling more models from every faction to a larger number of people. I don't really know if that would help up the sales numbers or not. This would let them remove things from their inventory and tighten up control of what the sell and possible "damage" 3rd party competitors for a little while. Yes people would be upset about Gw dropping big game 40K but it could also let GW actually develop more games with better rules which might bring in more new players. But who can say.

Personally I'd rather have several small warbands to choose from over the hundreds of Orks, IG and space Marines I have already collected and never use. I'd be happy to have one full collection of each faction if that saw maybe 10 to 20 models tops. ( Maybe s many as 30 models.)

That's Kill Team's niche.

**vipoid**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The new Squat Terminators/Paragon Squatsuits look dumb, even by GW Standards. It's like they decided to make Tor Gardon a standard unit type.

These dudes?

Theyre awesome looking IMO

"How's the armour feel, Stan?"

"Er... does it come in a smaller size? I can barely see over the collar."

**PenitentJake**

Karol wrote:
Those are skirmish games. Where you make 10 models and forget about them.

For a faction in w40k, the way GW makes them you need at least 6-7 kits and 2-3 HQs. Making even two or three of those, without being sure they will sell , could be a bad investment for GW.

Nah.

Look at the Corsair box- it builds an elite unit and a troop unit. Look at the sisters box- it builds troops, FA, or Heavy.

One KT sized box can include enough bits to build a troop, an elite/ FA/ Heavy and an HQ. If you want to model all three builds, you buy 3 copies of the box.

Releasing them as KT's increases their versatility and increases sales.

**warhead01**

Sim-Life wrote:
warhead01 wrote:
Karol wrote:
Those are skirmish games. Where you make 10 models and forget about them.

For a faction in w40k, the way GW makes them you need at least 6-7 kits and 2-3 HQs. Making even two or three of those, without being sure they will sell , could be a bad investment for GW.

Not to get too far off topic but this is something I have thought about for a while. I don't know when but I would expect Gw to dump f40K for more skirmish games using the same models. the advantage of doing that, seems to me, would be selling more models from every faction to a larger number of people. I don't really know if that would help up the sales numbers or not. This would let them remove things from their inventory and tighten up control of what the sell and possible "damage" 3rd party competitors for a little while. Yes people would be upset about Gw dropping big game 40K but it could also let GW actually develop more games with better rules which might bring in more new players. But who can say.

Personally I'd rather have several small warbands to choose from over the hundreds of Orks, IG and space Marines I have already collected and never use. I'd be happy to have one full collection of each faction if that saw maybe 10 to 20 models tops. ( Maybe s many as 30 models.)

That's Kill Team's niche.

Absolutely right! And now with "New expansions!" Because MONEY!!!

**BlackoCatto**

"GW won't make new SKUs for Guard, don't want bloat do we?"

-Said as GW makes a whole new army filled with new SKUs.

**Racerguy180**

Yeah, I think that they're beyond caring about skus....

**Overread**

GW can generally not care as much because they are the market juggernaut for wargames. Plus they've got good distribution through their own network both online and on the highstreets. So they doubly don't have to care.

They still have to care, but likely because of different elements; eg production, warhousing and such; rather than shelf space "as much" as other firms

**Karol**

PenitentJake 806473 11420317 wrote:
Nah.

Look at the Corsair box- it builds an elite unit and a troop unit. Look at the sisters box- it builds troops, FA, or Heavy.

One KT sized box can include enough bits to build a troop, an elite/ FA/ Heavy and an HQ. If you want to model all three builds, you buy 3 copies of the box.

Releasing them as KT's increases their versatility and increases sales.

Yes that is why I am saying 6-7 kits. Look at the smallest faction, number of models wise, the harlequin. Two vehicles, a unit and 3 characters and the jetbikes. Smallest faction in the game. GK technicaly have around that too, but their GK termintor box makes ton of characters , support units.

The one off boxs for kill team don't have much of an impact on how a codex sells. A box of 10 karskin will not be the main factor in GW selling a faction or a codex, same way kommandos or eldar corsair dudes didn't become The Sellers of their books. Now is it impossible for a kill team box to be super crucial for a faction, of course not. Lets say GW makes mimes for harlequins and they out perform regular troups, people will buy them.

**Aecus Decimus**

Overread wrote:
GW can generally not care as much because they are the market juggernaut for wargames. Plus they've got good distribution through their own network both online and on the highstreets. So they doubly don't have to care.

They still have to care, but likely because of different elements; eg production, warhousing and such; rather than shelf space "as much" as other firms

Yeah, and it's not like GW has cared about shelf space in a long time. Go into a GW store and the inventory is pathetic, you have a handful of the most popular kits carefully spaced along the wall to take up as much space as possible and give the illusion of a lot of stock. Want anything else? Order it through the same online store you can buy through at home, as if getting to use the store's PC to place your online order is a selling point in 2022. Adding some more online-only SKUs when most of your product lines are already not sold in stores doesn't make any meaningful difference.

**ccs**

Karol wrote:
PenitentJake 806473 11420317 wrote:
Nah.

Look at the Corsair box- it builds an elite unit and a troop unit. Look at the sisters box- it builds troops, FA, or Heavy.

One KT sized box can include enough bits to build a troop, an elite/ FA/ Heavy and an HQ. If you want to model all three builds, you buy 3 copies of the box.

Releasing them as KT's increases their versatility and increases sales.

Yes that is why I am saying 6-7 kits. Look at the smallest faction, number of models wise, the harlequin. Two vehicles, a unit and 3 characters and the jetbikes. Smallest faction in the game. GK technicaly have around that too, but their GK termintor box makes ton of characters , support units.

Smallest faction kit wise are Imperial/Chaos Knights.
3 kits each.

**Commissar Benny**

Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion & had kind words/advice. Thought I would share a few pictures of my army before departing again. Hopefully someday GW will feel giving old regiments models/rules will be a worthwhile business venture.

**Big Mac**

Being a mainly IG player, I wouldn't bash GW neglecting old regiments too much,
reason #1 being that many 3rd party covers them very well,
#2: it's hard for GW to protect their sculpt IP for IG as they can be very similar to our real world past and current military
#3: for a very long time, FW made IG and marine products and neglected everyone else, to say we're neglected is not appreciating what we already have/had

**vipoid**

Commissar Benny wrote:
Thanks to everyone who joined the discussion & had kind words/advice. Thought I would share a few pictures of my army before departing again. Hopefully someday GW will feel giving old regiments models/rules will be a worthwhile business venture.

Spoiler:

Oh that looks very nice.

Something I will say - I always felt like Cadians were the least interesting guard regiment, in terms of aesthetic. I know they're a prominent one but something like Vostroyan just seems like a much more interesting design. A longcoat/greatcoat style (like your army) would probably be my second choice.

**PaddyMick**

Guard have got loads of new models, they just ain't made by GW

**0beron**

vipoid wrote:
VladimirHerzog wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The new Squat Terminators/Paragon Squatsuits look dumb, even by GW Standards. It's like they decided to make Tor Gardon a standard unit type.

These dudes?

Theyre awesome looking IMO

"How's the armour feel, Stan?"

"Er... does it come in a smaller size? I can barely see over the collar."

Illustrators/designers for games have this weird idea that the shoulders are the most important part of the body to keep protected. These go beyond that to the point where the pauldrons are so huge and high up they're barely even protecting the shoulders anymore.

**BlackoCatto**

It's odd. I really like the design of the metal Cadians, the ones that were around right before the current plastics. Far more character in them, that's what's missing. You look at the Bolt Action guys, which are also supposed to be in a quasi Heroic scale. So much character in a sprue with so many option. Hell, look at what WGA is doing making essentially alternate IG. We got Praetorians and Mordians in plastic.

**0beron**

This is what Squats in power armor are supposed look like:

**Racerguy180**

Yeah WGA stuff is far superior to the cadian sculpts and on par with the new stuff GW has been doing.

Don't forget the new Space 'Nam collab from WGA & Reptillian Overlords...

**VladimirHerzog**

0beron wrote:
This is what Squats in power armor are supposed look like:

Spoiler:

yeah, the new ones look much better in my eyes

**vipoid**

0beron wrote:
This is what Squats in power armor are supposed look like:

These look like the contents of Mr. Potato Head's power armour wardrobe.

That said, while these obviously suffer from being ancient models, I still find them far more visually interesting than the bloke above (who just looks like a generic dude wearing generic power armour, albeit three sizes too big for him).

**ccs**

vipoid wrote:
0beron wrote:
This is what Squats in power armor are supposed look like:

These look like the contents of Mr. Potato Head's power armour wardrobe.

That said, while these obviously suffer from being ancient models, I still find them far more visually interesting than the bloke above (who just looks like a generic dude wearing generic power armour, albeit three sizes too big for him).

Being ancient models is not their problem (other than being made of lead....) Their problem is being a crap design. If you made those today with modern plastic tech? You'd still have a crap design. It just be unable to also double as a fishing line sinker.

But yes, the new one looks a bit generic, too tall(?), and the armor too large.

**mrFickle**

Has anyone mentioned the fact that OP thinks of their life as a timeline. You rarely see the multiverse theory so casually acknowledged

**warhead01**

mrFickle wrote:
Has anyone mentioned the fact that OP thinks of their life as a timeline. You rarely see the multiverse theory so casually acknowledged

It's been an in joke with my friends for a few years. Something about the Hadron collider being the culprit for the general hot mess that's been ongoing for I'm not sure how many years now.
I mean, who can say for sure?

Which if you follow the Dao* isn't really a huge issue...

*Daoism

**Sim-Life**

warhead01 wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
Has anyone mentioned the fact that OP thinks of their life as a timeline. You rarely see the multiverse theory so casually acknowledged

It's been an in joke with my friends for a few years. Something about the Hadron collider being the culprit for the general hot mess that's been ongoing for I'm not sure how many years now.
I mean, who can say for sure? Which if you follow the Dao* isn't really a huge issue...

*Daoism

It's been a pretty popular internet meme since the timeline episode of Community in 2011.

**Table**

Yea, adding yet another faction is pretty brain dead imho. I do not think it will even sell. Especially when base line armies have gaping holes in unit availability.

**EviscerationPlague**

PenitentJake wrote:
Karol wrote:
Those are skirmish games. Where you make 10 models and forget about them.

For a faction in w40k, the way GW makes them you need at least 6-7 kits and 2-3 HQs. Making even two or three of those, without being sure they will sell , could be a bad investment for GW.

Nah.

Look at the Corsair box- it builds an elite unit and a troop unit.

You're being really generous here. There's no discernable differences between how the units function and their options. It's basically the same as saying the Kalabite box builds Trueborn as well.

**PenitentJake**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
Karol wrote:
Those are skirmish games. Where you make 10 models and forget about them.

For a faction in w40k, the way GW makes them you need at least 6-7 kits and 2-3 HQs. Making even two or three of those, without being sure they will sell , could be a bad investment for GW.

Nah.

Look at the Corsair box- it builds an elite unit and a troop unit.

You're being really generous here. There's no discernable differences between how the units function and their options. It's basically the same as saying the Kalabite box builds Trueborn as well.

You are absolutely wrong on the Corsair front. The biggest difference (and it's a huge one) is that vodscarred elites can take a psyker- and one that's immune to perils at that. Two extra models can upgrade weapons, and with other upgrades available to the unit, there's a real difference between a voidscarred unit kitted for range than a unit kitted for combat.

By contrast, Voidreavers are far more similar to a basic troop unit- they get a leader, a special and a heavy.

Your Trueborn strawman IS a legit example of two units not being as different as they should be... But it's worth noting that Trueborn aren't even a datacard- they're a unit upgrade, making the comparison even less appropriate than the lack of differentiated upgrades.

**EviscerationPlague**

Wow they get to take a Psyker and MORE weapons.

So yeah just like Trueborn except with a Psyker option. Soooooo different.

**PenitentJake**

Dude, Trueborn are not a datacard and their weapon options are identical to the weapon options of Kabalites.

The Corsairs have two datacards and a kit that is designed as a dedicated dual build that includes three optional characters and 4 weapon upgrades. Add in the Falchou, for a 9th upgrade.

So at best, a Trueborn unit has it's commander, two troops with weapon upgrades AND SEVEN REGULAR MODELS.

Whereas in a unit of maxed out Voidscarred, only one of the ten models as a standard trooper with a standard load out. And the unit gets to act in Psychic phase.

There's a group of posters on this website who act like admitting they're wrong when they clearly are is a sign of weakness rather than maturity.