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2022/12/04 20:05:56
Subject: Re:Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Hellacious Havoc
Bay Area
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I’ll disagree with the post. As long as the figures have similar base size and looks that don’t make it hard to know what it is, then it’s not an issue. Just like d&d figures, there are many types out there. However I do agree with GW rules for sanctioned events to enforce their miniatures. I think it’s great that people can use other models that add uniqueness. Since it’s very hard to convert a model drastically.
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2022/12/04 22:52:58
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Count me among those who finds GWs utter sacrifice of the conversion sphere tragic. I feel they are losing out; it is a great way to build community. While advertising obviously has an impact, it is ultimately the community that sells the wargame. GW corporate seems to fundamentally not understand that more community = more sales, even if that community is build on using parts from other companies! Because you know what people use those parts to convert? GW miniatures.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2022/12/05 14:13:43
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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NinthMusketeer wrote:Count me among those who finds GWs utter sacrifice of the conversion sphere tragic. I feel they are losing out; it is a great way to build community. While advertising obviously has an impact, it is ultimately the community that sells the wargame. GW corporate seems to fundamentally not understand that more community = more sales, even if that community is build on using parts from other companies! Because you know what people use those parts to convert? GW miniatures.
There's also the aspect that many conversions are 100% GW bits - just using ones from different factions or mixing AoS and 40k.
It's sad that they seem to hold such an adversarial view on the matter.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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2022/12/05 18:45:09
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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NinthMusketeer wrote:GW corporate seems to fundamentally not understand that more community = more sales, even if that community is build on using parts from other companies! Because you know what people use those parts to convert? GW miniatures.
The one bit I disagree with from a "business" perspective is this bit. GW should 100% be encouraging conversion work and Codexes should have examples of this like the 4th Ed Ork Codex that had a page dedicated to it or the examples found in the 8th Ed Guard Codex. WD articles are good but not enough.
That being said, featuring conversions using parts from other companies, competitors if we are being accurate, isn't smart business. Advertising other companies doesn't net GW customers and money, and like it or not, that's what the people running the company have to do. If customers find out that there are other options very early on then there is a chance they won't buy from GW.
There's a reason the EE shop in a shopping centre didn't tell me to go to a local phone repair shop after they quoted £300 to fix a broken screen. Same thing applies to GW.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/05 18:46:43
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2022/12/05 19:06:39
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Second Story Man
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NinthMusketeer wrote:GW corporate seems to fundamentally not understand that more community = more sales, even if that community is build on using parts from other companies! Because you know what people use those parts to convert? GW miniatures.
this they definitely understand
but they also know that more community means that they cannot cover the demand without expanding, so more sales don't mean more profit as this just covers the cost of the investment in doing so
keeping the community at a stable size, with new players cover the amount that drops out and selling them a new game (in form of a new Edition) every few years to re-start everything is much more save than a larger growing community that might leave the GW bubble faster
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Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise |
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2022/12/05 19:37:29
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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GW also understands - more strongly than many other brands - how important young fans are.
GW knows that if they sit back and relax with a large and active adult community that eventually that community moves on/retires/dies off. GW is very active in making darn sure they get teens in the door to be the next generation.
Lego does the very same thing, its why they've paired up to do loads of these movie-tie-in releases; did Bionics and loads of other things.
These firms understand how important the youth are to retain.
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2022/12/05 21:06:19
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Eilif wrote:
I'm not disagreeing entirely, but it is a bit humorous to see nostalgia for white dwarf of the 00s. Folks always look back to "better days". One wonders what it will be like when players look back with fondness to the early 2020s...
Counterpoint: the 1970s. No one looks back on disco and stagflation with nostalgia. No one.
As part of my effort to recreate 2nd edition in its entirety, I've collected many of the WDs of that era and what stands out is the creativity of the company. They were willing to try one-off games and make forays into supporting sub-games within their genres.
There was also a sense that GW's design team actually wanted to perfect their rules. The expectation that the next editions of Fantasy and 40k would be definitive had some basis in fact. Indeed, the way 6th ed. WHFB corrected the excesses of 5th offered a great deal of hope for the future.
No one believes that now. The new editions are part of a product replacement cycle. It's the gaming equivalent of planned obsolescence.
But once, long ago, we thought differently...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/05 21:06:58
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2022/12/05 22:29:19
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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There was also a sense that the design teams wanted to play their rules.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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2022/12/05 23:49:57
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Powerful Ushbati
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Commissar von Toussaint wrote: Eilif wrote:
I'm not disagreeing entirely, but it is a bit humorous to see nostalgia for white dwarf of the 00s. Folks always look back to "better days". One wonders what it will be like when players look back with fondness to the early 2020s...
Counterpoint: the 1970s. No one looks back on disco and stagflation with nostalgia. No one.
As part of my effort to recreate 2nd edition in its entirety, I've collected many of the WDs of that era and what stands out is the creativity of the company. They were willing to try one-off games and make forays into supporting sub-games within their genres.
There was also a sense that GW's design team actually wanted to perfect their rules. The expectation that the next editions of Fantasy and 40k would be definitive had some basis in fact. Indeed, the way 6th ed. WHFB corrected the excesses of 5th offered a great deal of hope for the future.
No one believes that now. The new editions are part of a product replacement cycle. It's the gaming equivalent of planned obsolescence.
But once, long ago, we thought differently...
It's like the beginning of MGS4 "Endless war is now the normal" except it's the search for endless profit.
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2022/12/06 04:57:38
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Bell of Lost Souls really went down hill. I remember reading it around 4th or 5th edition.
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2022/12/06 18:25:53
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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vipoid wrote:There was also a sense that the design teams wanted to play their rules.
The 'wanting to play their rules' is part of the problem, though. The reason why Phil Kelly made every Eldar book more broken than the last one (ditto for Tau 'math is too complicated for me' dude) is because it's his pet army he plays during breaks. It really shows because every other army he wrote had mostly trash rules as he wasn't excited to play it (or worse, didn't want to give his colleagues who wanted to play it advantage).
vipoid wrote:It's sad that they seem to hold such an adversarial view on the matter.
So adversarial WC only runs showcases of converted minis 1-2 times per week (and even ads for new armies, most recently for WE, feature converted models). I feel the problem is not in adversarial views, but someone completely and utterly inept high in rule writing team going off the rails to sabotage armies he doesn't like (such as Deathwatch with completely imbecilic nerf to special ammo that doesn't make any sense whatsoever using lack of switch buttons on weapons as an excuse or the whole primaris saga with comically stupid limits on their frakking melee weapons DESPITE BITS FOR SAID WEAPONS BEING RIGHT IN THE BOX!)
AoS doesn't have this problem because they have separate rule writer team and it looks like it's much more competent one than 40K clowns...
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2022/12/06 18:34:16
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Gert wrote: NinthMusketeer wrote:GW corporate seems to fundamentally not understand that more community = more sales, even if that community is build on using parts from other companies! Because you know what people use those parts to convert? GW miniatures.
The one bit I disagree with from a "business" perspective is this bit. GW should 100% be encouraging conversion work and Codexes should have examples of this like the 4th Ed Ork Codex that had a page dedicated to it or the examples found in the 8th Ed Guard Codex. WD articles are good but not enough.
That being said, featuring conversions using parts from other companies, competitors if we are being accurate, isn't smart business. Advertising other companies doesn't net GW customers and money, and like it or not, that's what the people running the company have to do. If customers find out that there are other options very early on then there is a chance they won't buy from GW.
There's a reason the EE shop in a shopping centre didn't tell me to go to a local phone repair shop after they quoted £300 to fix a broken screen. Same thing applies to GW.
I absolutely agree that they shouldn't be featuring or advertising third party products, but they absolutely should be advertising and encouraging conversions using solely their own. In the meantime they also don't benefit from spending money to be actively antagonistic to 3rd parties--a marine army with 3d printed shoulder pads at a tournament is going to sell far more GW plastic than anything else.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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2022/12/07 00:47:10
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Hacking Shang Jí
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Sure, stagflation is the low-hanging fruit that no one remembers fondly. But there are still those who get nostalgic about disco. It's shown up in some recent-ish films.
I have a lot of nostalgia for the 70's. I was a kid. I didn't know about stagflation. I knew about Star Wars, Space 1999, Kiss, Sabbath, Van Halen...
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The Imperial Navy, A Galatic Force for Good. |
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2022/12/07 04:17:44
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Fixture of Dakka
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Arschbombe wrote:
Sure, stagflation is the low-hanging fruit that no one remembers fondly. But there are still those who get nostalgic about disco. It's shown up in some recent-ish films.
I have a lot of nostalgia for the 70's. I was a kid. I didn't know about stagflation. I knew about Star Wars, Space 1999, Kiss, Sabbath, Van Halen...
70's muscle cars....
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2022/12/07 09:07:58
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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NinthMusketeer wrote: Gert wrote: NinthMusketeer wrote:GW corporate seems to fundamentally not understand that more community = more sales, even if that community is build on using parts from other companies! Because you know what people use those parts to convert? GW miniatures.
The one bit I disagree with from a "business" perspective is this bit. GW should 100% be encouraging conversion work and Codexes should have examples of this like the 4th Ed Ork Codex that had a page dedicated to it or the examples found in the 8th Ed Guard Codex. WD articles are good but not enough. That being said, featuring conversions using parts from other companies, competitors if we are being accurate, isn't smart business. Advertising other companies doesn't net GW customers and money, and like it or not, that's what the people running the company have to do. If customers find out that there are other options very early on then there is a chance they won't buy from GW. There's a reason the EE shop in a shopping centre didn't tell me to go to a local phone repair shop after they quoted £300 to fix a broken screen. Same thing applies to GW.
I absolutely agree that they shouldn't be featuring or advertising third party products, but they absolutely should be advertising and encouraging conversions using solely their own. In the meantime they also don't benefit from spending money to be actively antagonistic to 3rd parties--a marine army with 3d printed shoulder pads at a tournament is going to sell far more GW plastic than anything else.
The new WD contains an extensive article detailing fairly complex conversions representing characters in their new videogame. Not sure how common this is as I only bought the recent WD for the free games and don't usually buy it, but judging by what I also see on WarCom, I think they're doing exactly what you're saying they should.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/07 09:08:05
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2022/12/07 14:22:05
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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NinthMusketeer wrote:I absolutely agree that they shouldn't be featuring or advertising third party products, but they absolutely should be advertising and encouraging conversions using solely their own. In the meantime they also don't benefit from spending money to be actively antagonistic to 3rd parties--a marine army with 3d printed shoulder pads at a tournament is going to sell far more GW plastic than anything else.
Advertising 3d printed products doesn't net GW money. Why buy GW Ultramarine or Night Lord's upgrades when you can buy double the number of 3d printed versions for roughly the same price?
The only place GW doesn't advertise conversions currently is in some Codexes and even then there are certain books that feature conversions, even if they are just with official GW upgrade kits or minimal kitbashing.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/07 14:22:12
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2022/12/07 14:46:13
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Brigadier General
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Commissar von Toussaint wrote: Eilif wrote:
I'm not disagreeing entirely, but it is a bit humorous to see nostalgia for white dwarf of the 00s. Folks always look back to "better days". One wonders what it will be like when players look back with fondness to the early 2020s...
Counterpoint: the 1970s. No one looks back on disco and stagflation with nostalgia. No one.
As part of my effort to recreate 2nd edition in its entirety, I've collected many of the WDs of that era and what stands out is the creativity of the company. They were willing to try one-off games and make forays into supporting sub-games within their genres.
Others have already addressed some of the things in the 70's that folks do look back on with nostalgia, but I'll simply say that pointing out (and rightfully so) the things that were bad about an era in no way dampens the nostalgia for things people did like. Nostalgia is by it's very nature a cloudy, rose-colored view of the past.
As for Second Edition 40k. I have some thoughts on that. It's when I entered the game and I do have every codex and a nearly complete set of WD's from the era. I love the design, fluff, look, etc. Though my 40k armies do spill into 4th and a bit of 5th, I realized recently that there's almost nothing in them that isn't in 2nd edition codices. And yet I have zero nostalgia for the 2nd rules except as they exist in classic Necromunda which I think (in it's NCE form) is the pinnacle of the RT/2ndEd rulesets and proof that the 40k system is really best for very small-scope games.
But I digress... Second edition 40k was an improvement over RT and perhaps it's better than what we've got now (I can't comment as I abandoned 40k rules a few editions ago), but as a game it was an overdone mess of cards, tables, overpowered heroes, and unnecessarily granular rules. I understand why folks return to it the same way they return to certain early versions of WHFB, but having gone back myself a few years ago for a revisit of 2nd edition I have zero interest in doing so again.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/07 14:47:38
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2022/12/07 18:54:19
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Stubborn White Lion
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Eilif wrote:Commissar von Toussaint wrote: Eilif wrote:
I'm not disagreeing entirely, but it is a bit humorous to see nostalgia for white dwarf of the 00s. Folks always look back to "better days". One wonders what it will be like when players look back with fondness to the early 2020s...
Counterpoint: the 1970s. No one looks back on disco and stagflation with nostalgia. No one.
As part of my effort to recreate 2nd edition in its entirety, I've collected many of the WDs of that era and what stands out is the creativity of the company. They were willing to try one-off games and make forays into supporting sub-games within their genres.
Others have already addressed some of the things in the 70's that folks do look back on with nostalgia, but I'll simply say that pointing out (and rightfully so) the things that were bad about an era in no way dampens the nostalgia for things people did like. Nostalgia is by it's very nature a cloudy, rose-colored view of the past.
As for Second Edition 40k. I have some thoughts on that. It's when I entered the game and I do have every codex and a nearly complete set of WD's from the era. I love the design, fluff, look, etc. Though my 40k armies do spill into 4th and a bit of 5th, I realized recently that there's almost nothing in them that isn't in 2nd edition codices. And yet I have zero nostalgia for the 2nd rules except as they exist in classic Necromunda which I think (in it's NCE form) is the pinnacle of the RT/2ndEd rulesets and proof that the 40k system is really best for very small-scope games.
But I digress... Second edition 40k was an improvement over RT and perhaps it's better than what we've got now (I can't comment as I abandoned 40k rules a few editions ago), but as a game it was an overdone mess of cards, tables, overpowered heroes, and unnecessarily granular rules. I understand why folks return to it the same way they return to certain early versions of WHFB, but having gone back myself a few years ago for a revisit of 2nd edition I have zero interest in doing so again.
I love the internet when it is this civil
Im a huge 2nd edition fan and agree with all you said. Nevertheless its a mess I love. You do need an empty day to get a game in i find though
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2022/12/07 19:09:20
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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2nd is still my favorite, probably why I love Necromunda so much.
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2022/12/07 19:18:55
Subject: Re:Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Stubborn White Lion
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OG Necromunda with Outlanders might be my fave GW game. Still trying to source the books and that style of terrain though
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2022/12/08 02:28:29
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Which came with the AMC Pacer. British Leyland.
I mean, seriously. I have school photos where the entire class has collars that reach beyond their shoulder blades. It was awful.
Near the end things seemed to improve, but on the whole, not so good. Space 1999...don't get me started.
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2022/12/08 03:39:32
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Fixture of Dakka
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So? The existence of the Pacer has nothing to do with my love of 70s muscle cars.
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2022/12/08 14:55:28
Subject: Re:Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Brigadier General
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Dai wrote:OG Necromunda with Outlanders might be my fave GW game. Still trying to source the books and that style of terrain though
I highly recommend the "Necromunda Community Edition" as assembled by Yaktribe. It's a fairly subtle tweaking of the game by a fan community that did alot of playtesting. Shaves a few of the rough edges and balances some things, but makes no attempt to modernize or drastically change anything so it feels just like you remember. It's based off of the last community edition that (a version of "Underhive" rulebook) that GW released and incorporates the Outlanders stuff. We played a mini-campaign with NCE a few years back and really enjoyed it.
As for terrain there are some good MDF kits available in that style, including some that seem to mirror almsot exactly the contents of the original boxed set. However, building multi-level necro-style terrain from junk toys (very "Necromundicon"-ish) has been a labor of love for me over the years that I've quite enjoyed. Much of which can be viewed here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dai wrote:
I love the internet when it is this civil
I'm a huge 2nd edition fan and agree with all you said. Nevertheless its a mess I love. You do need an empty day to get a game in i find though
Thanks!
It is a glorious mess. I think that if I had a long afternoon set aside and an opponent who was really excited about 2nd edition, and familiar enough with the rules to help me along, I'd give it a go again. Ideally a smaller scope game though, maybe a platoon or so per side and an interesting scenario.
In the meantime, I'm having a ton of fun playing big quick " 40k" games with my son using Grimdark Future and even those sometimes have to be split between days because family/kids/work/life/etc....
If anyone is interest, here's my thoughts on when I briefly revisited 2nd edition.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2011/11/vintage-warhammer-40k-2nd-edition/
I'm mildly embarassed that what I thought was "a few years ago" is actually over a decade past. Time flies....
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/08 15:24:57
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2022/12/08 15:27:33
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Star Wars? Empire Strikes Back? Alien? Stalker? CEot3K? Solaris? Zardoz?
On the book side too - Ringworld, Lathe of Heaven, Rama, Forever War, Mote in God's Eye, Dragonriders of Pern, Lem, Bolo, 70s was glorious time for Sci Fi. And pretty much the last decade that offered some hope for progress in the future before Raeganism/Thatcherism up everything...
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2022/12/08 21:29:57
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ccs wrote:
So? The existence of the Pacer has nothing to do with my love of 70s muscle cars.
The emissions controls imposed on the auto industry made them less cool than they are now. That and the gas lines.
What a lot of people are doing is taking the cream of the decade - the happy parts we love and celebrate - and ignoring the absolute horror that they were in real time. Yeah, Star Wars was great, and it stood out because there was so much that was awful. Same with disco - we only play the best of it.
Everything was really, really ugly back then. Who thought green shag carpet was a good idea?
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2022/12/08 22:25:58
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Brigadier General
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Commissar von Toussaint wrote:.
What a lot of people are doing is taking the cream of the decade - the happy parts we love and celebrate - and ignoring the absolute horror that they were in real time. .
?
Of course that's what we're doing. That's what nostalgia is. I'm not sure why you seem surprised by that.
Those pointing out the gems of the era and/or not sharing quite as bleak a recollection of the era as you are neither completely disagreeing nor remotely impressed by you pointing it out repeatedly.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/08 22:28:13
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2022/12/08 22:31:01
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Eilif wrote:
Of course that's what we're doing. That's what nostalgia is. I'm not sure why you seem surprised by that.
Those pointing out the gems of the era and/or not sharing quite as bleak a recollection of the era as you are neither completely disagreeing nor remotely impressed by you pointing it out repeatedly.
And my point is that I wonder how many people were actually there, because while I like Star Wars, I hated the 70s.
I mean, I love vintage movies from the 1930s, but the Great Depression was, you know, pretty depressing.
Anyway, I think we're as off topic as it is possible to be.
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2022/12/08 22:41:57
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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I'll take 70's cinema over the current field any day.
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2022/12/08 22:43:06
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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That goes without saying.
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2022/12/09 00:25:49
Subject: Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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Irbis wrote: vipoid wrote:There was also a sense that the design teams wanted to play their rules.
The 'wanting to play their rules' is part of the problem, though. The reason why Phil Kelly made every Eldar book more broken than the last one (ditto for Tau 'math is too complicated for me' dude) is because it's his pet army he plays during breaks. It really shows because every other army he wrote had mostly trash rules as he wasn't excited to play it (or worse, didn't want to give his colleagues who wanted to play it advantage).
Yeah, it's why you really need to have more than one person look at each codex, so that favouritism doesn't creep in.
That said, I'd still take the old issues over the boilerplate trash we have now.
"How do we represent-"
"Reroll 1s"
"Okay, so what about-"
"Reroll 1s."
"So how about this completely different-"
"Reroll 1s."
"But now we need to represent-"
"Reroll 1s."
etc.
Irbis wrote:
vipoid wrote:It's sad that they seem to hold such an adversarial view on the matter.
So adversarial WC only runs showcases of converted minis 1-2 times per week (and even ads for new armies, most recently for WE, feature converted models). I feel the problem is not in adversarial views, but someone completely and utterly inept high in rule writing team going off the rails to sabotage armies he doesn't like (such as Deathwatch with completely imbecilic nerf to special ammo that doesn't make any sense whatsoever using lack of switch buttons on weapons as an excuse or the whole primaris saga with comically stupid limits on their frakking melee weapons DESPITE BITS FOR SAID WEAPONS BEING RIGHT IN THE BOX!)
That's fair. Though, if GW wants to encourage and promote conversions, you might expect someone would have given the rule writers a slap by this point.
Irbis wrote:AoS doesn't have this problem because they have separate rule writer team and it looks like it's much more competent one than 40K clowns...
I thought AoS didn't have this problem because it didn't have options.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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