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2017/07/18 08:09:31
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
These lists have way too many Kastelans. I mean, I get that from a Mathhammer perspective, they're our most efficient unit, but they're also one of our most vulnerable units.
Anyhow, it seems like my point on mass air and horde are right. The dominant armies are Dante+Stormraven spam, Hemlock spam, or Rowboat+Ultramarines+Guard horde, and Magnus+Princes+Horrors horde.
I think we're seriously underrating how important Icarus Crawlers are in this meta. Everything and their mom flies for the bonuses. I say 1:1 Neutron:Icarus at the minimum.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iago40k wrote: As expected, there are not that many AdMech lists. I talked with a friend of mine who is a team member. He told me that AdMech "is just not up there". Mainly because AdMech is too vincible to good melee armies when playing a combination of progressive and end game objective missions, which is the usual way to go.
We have known for awhile that without a strong mobile element, your only hope in progressive objective games is to table the opponent. It's why I bring a Knight Crusader and 6 Dragoons. Though now that I see the gunship spam, maybe running something like 4 Icarus Crawlers and 2 Neutron Crawlers is not a bad idea.
Here's hoping our codex gives us some mobility perks or ways to make our Dragoons and Ironstriders a bit more efficient, like Explode on command?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/18 09:45:46
2017/07/18 10:23:17
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Suzuteo wrote: These lists have way too many Kastelans. I mean, I get that from a Mathhammer perspective, they're our most efficient unit, but they're also one of our most vulnerable units.
yeah I think so too. I tested a lot of lists with difrerent numbers of Kastelans and I really think that 2-4 is the sweet spot. I run 2 or 3 though since that worked best for me.
2017/07/18 13:58:23
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
While I understand from a perspective leaning towards the meta, I'm flabbergasted at these admech lists. Dakkastelens not in aegis only take 3 lascannon hits to take down, less if they are even a bit lucky.
Spamming them sounds good in theory but by the omnissiah taking 6, 10, 12? Sounds like a losing proposition.
If stormraven spam becomes a problem, I believe neutron onagers are more important! They are equals in output vs icaruswith cawl nearby, with a much higher and more likely damage potential. The icarus is relying on a lot of 4s and 5s to wound, and a lot of 4+ and 5+ saves to be failed.
I'm still feeling weighing your onager numbers towards them. Maybe less so if dark eldar or hemlock are more prevalent I. Your area. But if its t7, 3+ flyers? Gotta go neutron for me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/18 14:11:51
2017/07/18 15:09:46
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
I played against the 12 robbit list at ATC. He lined his priests just an inch in front of the bots. I Pulled up some electro protest from shooting, then 2 of my Deathwing Knights units made their charges. They managed to kill all the priests and then consolidate within 1" of all three robot units. They couldn't move, so I knew I got the win then.
axisofentropy wrote: I played against the 12 robbit list at ATC. He lined his priests just an inch in front of the bots. I Pulled up some electro protest from shooting, then 2 of my Deathwing Knights units made their charges. They managed to kill all the priests and then consolidate within 1" of all three robot units. They couldn't move, so I knew I got the win then.
Oh so he's awful at list making AND playing. Like the first thing you learn in 8th. Keep the screen 3''+ away from the thing it is protecting. Ugh
No offense to you if you, you just got a free win pretty much.
I think this spamming Onagers and Kastelans refers to any other army spamming their best stuff. It is very clear now that neither 12 bots nor 10 Onagers have the same impact as 6 stormravens. Which is a good thing.
2017/07/19 07:17:54
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
rvd1ofakind wrote: Well the flyer lists are gonna get hardfixed by either progresive scoring, eliminating the detachment or flyers not being able to score at all
I am VERY curious to see what GW does. I think a point bump for the Stormraven would be good, though I won't hold my breath. Just look at the Fire Raptor for a good area of points. 400+ for its firepower and it doesn't carry troops or a dread. While a Stormraven with TAC, THB, Hurricanes and the missiles is just a meager 274pt. I think if it went to 315 or so, it might help mitigate the spamminess.
So after seeing the different space marine chapters, what do you think they will do for AdMech when the codex rolls around?
It's probably a good chance they will be based on Forge worlds, so what do you think each forge world will get?
I'm hoping Ryza gets some sort of plasma weapon bonus, maybe as a stratagem or something.
Some characters other than Cawl would be nice as well.
2017/07/19 16:39:30
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Azegoroth wrote: So after seeing the different space marine chapters, what do you think they will do for AdMech when the codex rolls around?
It's probably a good chance they will be based on Forge worlds, so what do you think each forge world will get?
I'm hoping Ryza gets some sort of plasma weapon bonus, maybe as a stratagem or something.
Some characters other than Cawl would be nice as well.
We aren't getting other characters but probably a cheaper HQ.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/07/19 16:41:16
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Azegoroth wrote: So after seeing the different space marine chapters, what do you think they will do for AdMech when the codex rolls around?
It's probably a good chance they will be based on Forge worlds, so what do you think each forge world will get?
I'm hoping Ryza gets some sort of plasma weapon bonus, maybe as a stratagem or something.
Some characters other than Cawl would be nice as well.
We don't really have any official precedent for it, so who knows! Ryza with Plasma does seem likely, but that is fluff precedent and we see what they did with Salamanders.
I do wonder what Metalica will get. They don't have exactly much as far as precedent.
Azegoroth wrote: So after seeing the different space marine chapters, what do you think they will do for AdMech when the codex rolls around?
It's probably a good chance they will be based on Forge worlds, so what do you think each forge world will get?
I'm hoping Ryza gets some sort of plasma weapon bonus, maybe as a stratagem or something.
Some characters other than Cawl would be nice as well.
We aren't getting other characters but probably a cheaper HQ.
The elephant in the room is that "Mars" keyword. But yeah, it would be great if they had something like a few more named TPDs to choose from. I actually do not think we will be getting a cheaper HQ from the codex; we might have some hope with FW. (Still waiting on my Peltasts.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 17:44:42
2017/07/19 17:55:13
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
So I played around with it a few times and I was wondering what other cog-heads will think of a list using imperial guard in place of skitarii? I mean, I love skitarii and have close to 50 models of them, but right now I feel they are severely overcosted for what we need (bubble wrap and bodies)
20 Conscripts
infantry squad with plasma gun, heavy bolter and vox caster
infantry squad with plasma gun, heavy bolter and vox caster
infantry squad with plasma gun, heavy bolter and vox caster
The dominus and datasmith are in the batallion detachment because they are some of the guys that don't really benefit the most from the canticles, and because I needed the space. The IG are there to provide some defense against deep-strikers and giving us some extra bodies and guns to pepper the enemies with more fire. This list could also easily be changed to have cawl or maybe transports, allowing me to get to places faster and have a little more protection.
thoughts?
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts
Kaptin KlawJaw's FreeBootahz!-1,500pts
The Royal Court of BlüdGrave- 2,000pts || Atalurnos Fleetbreaker's Akhelian Corps- 2500pts
2017/07/19 18:48:56
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Tiger9gamer wrote: So I played around with it a few times and I was wondering what other cog-heads will think of a list using imperial guard in place of skitarii? I mean, I love skitarii and have close to 50 models of them, but right now I feel they are severely overcosted for what we need (bubble wrap and bodies)
20 Conscripts
infantry squad with plasma gun, heavy bolter and vox caster
infantry squad with plasma gun, heavy bolter and vox caster
infantry squad with plasma gun, heavy bolter and vox caster
The dominus and datasmith are in the batallion detachment because they are some of the guys that don't really benefit the most from the canticles, and because I needed the space. The IG are there to provide some defense against deep-strikers and giving us some extra bodies and guns to pepper the enemies with more fire. This list could also easily be changed to have cawl or maybe transports, allowing me to get to places faster and have a little more protection.
thoughts?
If you go back to page 21, Wulfey kicks off a discussion of using Conscript blobs and/or Celestine with Sisters to screen for 6 Crawlers. I think many of us are concerned that this strategy commits too much to tabling your opponent and exacerbates our already poor mobility, which can be very problematic in a progressive objective game.
You won't need the Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots or the Destroyers in that list. I recommend 2x Icarus Crawlers and another unit of 2x Phosphor Kastelans in their place. Or 3x Icarus Crawlers and more Conscripts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 18:49:35
2017/07/20 03:14:10
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Anyone have any experience running Dreadnoughts, perhaps with Drop Pods? I don't own any because last edition they were rather "meh," but the new Iron Hands chapter tactic is a FNP for vehicles that seems really fluffy.
2017/07/20 20:23:33
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Verviedi wrote: ETC lists are up. From what little I read, our lists are mostly just Kastelans + Cawl + Onagers (because those are the good units, obv )
People enjoy winning in a competitive setting. Nobody likes playing spam, nobody likes playing against spam. But in a competitive setting, people are going to try to bring the best list they can and if it's 9 crawlers, it's 9 crawlers. BAO last year I played a nid player with like 4 flyrants and a few harpys and like 2 venomthropes and some spore mines and that was it. I brought a war con. I lost. Badly. The whole time, he was sincerely apologetic that I had to go against flyrant spam. He clearly didn't want to play it or force others to play against it. But in order to not get tabled every game in a competitive scene, it's what he had to bring. I enjoy playing in tournaments. The stakes, the tension, the strategy needing to be exactly right, the competition. I also enjoy narrative-driven games, just being able to relax and play and roll dice and have a grand old time. They just scratch different itches. I intend to go to BAO in a week, and I'll probably post my list here for review. It won't be spam, but it also won't win me the tournament. But I'll do ok, and that's fine.
2017/07/21 04:50:01
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Another contributor to spam is the opacity of the metagame. Right now, nobody knows what's the best, so everyone is playing a dominant rather than reactive strategy. In time, the metagame will cohere and reduce the strategy space. Spam will become increasingly intransitive.
Suffice to say, the number of all-Kastelan lists will diminish, as people see that there are unsuccessful and see the successful lists.
2017/07/21 11:43:46
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Suzuteo wrote: Another contributor to spam is the opacity of the metagame. Right now, nobody knows what's the best, so everyone is playing a dominant rather than reactive strategy. In time, the metagame will cohere and reduce the strategy space. Spam will become increasingly intransitive.
Suffice to say, the number of all-Kastelan lists will diminish, as people see that there are unsuccessful and see the successful lists.
THIS 100%.
Spam will dissipate as the metagame congeals. For sure. One thing that will also kick things into high gear is the Codex release schedule, too. I feel it will have many incentives in it via strategems, special rules and relics that encourage things beyond "bring X of this obviously good model!"
I sincerely hope so, I'm waiting for the codices with great impatience to flesh out every army. Here's to hoping Space Marines won't be ridiculously overpowered in the meantime.
)
) with Cawl.
