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2017/10/17 07:27:15
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
senor_flojo wrote: It really opened my eyes to competitive play. As much as people talk about it on here, it really takes getting a good kick in the ass to learn.
But now I completely understand all the complaints about the chapter. It’s one thing if you’re playing fluff games for fun at the house. But outside of that, there’s a glaring flaw, and it’s not just the geneseed.
Now I’m coming up with lists that lack any BA-specific units, and I’m wondering, what’s the point? I have a Stormtalon I can never use. I want to run a lieutenant, but we’re stuck with the primaris variety. The op razorbacks makes me thankful that I magnetized the side sponsons on my Baal pred.
I totally see why everyone was saying devistators. And scouts seem much more useful than tacticals when filling in battalions.
This is what I’ve come up with, but aside from Mephiston, nothing is stopping me from playing as another chapter:
Spoiler:
++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [39 PL, 847pts] ++
+ Flyer + Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 326pts]: Twin lascannon, Twin multi-melta, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers
Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 326pts]: Twin lascannon, Twin multi-melta, Two Hurricane Bolters, Two Stormstrike Missile Launchers
Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 195pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons
Devastator Squad [7 PL, 115pts] . Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Devastator Squad [7 PL, 115pts] . Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Devastator Squad [7 PL, 82pts] . Space Marine: Heavy flamer
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
I really like this list of Russian player from this year ETC, looks innocent but has options nearly against all armies and has strong board controll. You can easily outmanever your oponent in all respects. Its not easy list to play, it punish your mistakes more than flyer spam.
Spoiler:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ TEAM: Russia
+ PLAYER 8: Stepan Zotov
+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE: Stepan Zotov, 1556
+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium
+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 8
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000 pts
+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Blood Angels, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum
+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
== Supreme Command Detachment == Blood Angels [490pts] +1 CP HQ1: Commander Dante [215pts] – WARLORD (Tenacious Survivor)
HQ2: Mephiston, Lord of Death, Blood Boil, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage [145pts]
HQ3: Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (86), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (25) [130pts]
== Vanguard Detachment == Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum, Blood Angels [322pts] +1CP
HQ4: Inquisitor (55), Storm Bolter (2), Psyker, Terrify [57pts]
Elites1: Culexus Assasin <Officio Assasinorum> [85pts]
Elites2: Eversor Assasin <Officio Assasinorum> [70pts]
Elites3: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) [110pts]
==Batallion Detachment== Blood Angels [1188pts] +3CP
HQ5: Captain with Jump Pack (93), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (25) [137pts]
HQ6: Primaris Lieutenant (70), Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle (4) [74pts]
Troops1: 6 man Scout Squad (66), 2 Sniper Rifles (8), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [78pts]
Troops2: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 1 Sniper Rifle (4), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [63pts]
Troops3: 5 man Scout Squad (55), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [59pts]
Elites4: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) [110pts]
FA1: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) [119pts]
FA2: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) [119pts]
HS1: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 2 Lascannons (50), Armorium Cherub (5), Sergeant: Bolter (0) [120pts] in DT1
DT1: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) [82pts]
HS2: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 3 Lascannons (75), Armorium Cherub (5), Sergeant: Bolter (0) [145pts] in DT2
DT2: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) [82pts]
ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS : 0
ARMY REINFORCEMENT FACTION : NONE
2017/10/17 07:37:14
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
sossen wrote: I agree, terminators are overpriced for what they bring. Between plasma, cyclic ion blasters, earthshaker cannons, blastmasters, malefic lords and so on, terminators are in big trouble once exposed. Good opponents have enough wit and tools to allow them to block off any feasible deepstrike options. Even if the termies get into a desirable melee their damage output is nothing special. I have tried to use terminators in competitive settings and tournaments, with and without transports. They have not been competitive for me or any other SM player that I have seen at tournaments.
Yeah, the plethora of 2 Damage weapons with at least -1 AP is staggering. Normal Marines are expensive per model and fragile enough as it is, and the 5+ Invul is nothing to write home about. Sure the 3+ Invul with Storm Shields is pretty good, but then they lack any ranged capabilities so MUST get their charge off to even be remotely effective. I can't justify using, unless it is in a casual Narrative Play game.
It's hard enough running a Successor Chapter and losing access to the BA special characters, I don't need to gimp my list even further with overly expensive and fragile models that are so easily blown away with Smite spam and Plasma.
2017/10/17 07:44:02
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
I really like this list of Russian player from this year ETC, looks innocent but has options nearly against all armies and has strong board controll. You can easily outmanever your oponent in all respects. Its not easy list to play, it punish your mistakes more than flyer spam.
Spoiler:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ TEAM: Russia
+ PLAYER 8: Stepan Zotov
+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE: Stepan Zotov, 1556
+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium
+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 8
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000 pts
+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Blood Angels, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum
+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
== Supreme Command Detachment == Blood Angels [490pts] +1 CP HQ1: Commander Dante [215pts] – WARLORD (Tenacious Survivor)
HQ2: Mephiston, Lord of Death, Blood Boil, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage [145pts]
HQ3: Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (86), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (25) [130pts]
== Vanguard Detachment == Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum, Blood Angels [322pts] +1CP
HQ4: Inquisitor (55), Storm Bolter (2), Psyker, Terrify [57pts]
Elites1: Culexus Assasin <Officio Assasinorum> [85pts]
Elites2: Eversor Assasin <Officio Assasinorum> [70pts]
Elites3: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) [110pts]
==Batallion Detachment== Blood Angels [1188pts] +3CP
HQ5: Captain with Jump Pack (93), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (25) [137pts]
HQ6: Primaris Lieutenant (70), Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle (4) [74pts]
Troops1: 6 man Scout Squad (66), 2 Sniper Rifles (8), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [78pts]
Troops2: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 1 Sniper Rifle (4), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [63pts]
Troops3: 5 man Scout Squad (55), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [59pts]
Elites4: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) [110pts]
FA1: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) [119pts]
FA2: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) [119pts]
HS1: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 2 Lascannons (50), Armorium Cherub (5), Sergeant: Bolter (0) [120pts] in DT1
DT1: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) [82pts]
HS2: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 3 Lascannons (75), Armorium Cherub (5), Sergeant: Bolter (0) [145pts] in DT2
DT2: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) [82pts]
ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS : 0
ARMY REINFORCEMENT FACTION : NONE
I am 99% certain that ETC was played without codex space marines in effect. Meaning that there was more incentive to play Blood Angels back then.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/17 07:45:32
2017/10/17 08:02:12
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
I really like this list of Russian player from this year ETC, looks innocent but has options nearly against all armies and has strong board controll. You can easily outmanever your oponent in all respects. Its not easy list to play, it punish your mistakes more than flyer spam.
Spoiler:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ TEAM: Russia
+ PLAYER 8: Stepan Zotov
+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE: Stepan Zotov, 1556
+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium
+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 8
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000 pts
+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Blood Angels, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum
+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
== Supreme Command Detachment == Blood Angels [490pts] +1 CP HQ1: Commander Dante [215pts] – WARLORD (Tenacious Survivor)
HQ2: Mephiston, Lord of Death, Blood Boil, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage [145pts]
HQ3: Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack (86), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (25) [130pts]
== Vanguard Detachment == Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum, Blood Angels [322pts] +1CP
HQ4: Inquisitor (55), Storm Bolter (2), Psyker, Terrify [57pts]
Elites1: Culexus Assasin <Officio Assasinorum> [85pts]
Elites2: Eversor Assasin <Officio Assasinorum> [70pts]
Elites3: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) [110pts]
==Batallion Detachment== Blood Angels [1188pts] +3CP
HQ5: Captain with Jump Pack (93), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (25) [137pts]
HQ6: Primaris Lieutenant (70), Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle (4) [74pts]
Troops1: 6 man Scout Squad (66), 2 Sniper Rifles (8), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [78pts]
Troops2: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 1 Sniper Rifle (4), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [63pts]
Troops3: 5 man Scout Squad (55), Sergeant: Sniper Rifle (4) [59pts]
Elites4: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) [110pts]
FA1: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) [119pts]
FA2: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) [119pts]
HS1: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 2 Lascannons (50), Armorium Cherub (5), Sergeant: Bolter (0) [120pts] in DT1
DT1: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) [82pts]
HS2: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 3 Lascannons (75), Armorium Cherub (5), Sergeant: Bolter (0) [145pts] in DT2
DT2: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) [82pts]
ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS : 0
ARMY REINFORCEMENT FACTION : NONE
I am 99% certain that ETC was played without codex space marines in effect. Meaning that there was more incentive to play Blood Angels back then.
Ah that makes sense, I just play them for fun and just expect to get pounded by a Codex army when those games arise. Tried two tournaments with them, it didn't go well... But I won Best Sportsmanship both times! Woohoo (I guess).
2017/10/17 16:24:21
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
It's almost like I know what I'm talking about. There's no reason to discuss scrubs who let terminators walk up and punch their fire base. That's just not happening against worthy opponents.
I play against a guy with 100 fire warriors. Imagine how well your assault terminators are going to work there.
However, I'm offering a partial fix here. It's boring and dumb, but it's the reality of marines in 8th. Shooting is the only solution that your opponent can't 100% foil in their movement phase. Sometimes they can with LoS blocking terrain, but with 48" lascannons there will almost always be a target. If your opponent can hide all their wyverns and manticores, you have already lost more than likely.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/18 17:29:54
2017/10/18 10:31:25
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
I feel stormravens are a very BA thign to take honestly. Putting death company and a death company dread inside a stormraven is something I've seriously considered doing; only thing that stopped me was lack of a dread, but it'd be the only reason I'd buy a dread.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/10/18 17:30:34
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
Hopefully the codex will make DC more worthwhile to bring, but for now I’m leaving them out. Maybe at some point, remodel 10 to have no jump packs and throw them in a Stormraven with Lemmy and a DC dread.
I don’t plan to use either Stormraven as transportation for time being, just fast dakka.
Are typhoons better than multimeltas?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/18 22:23:53
2017/10/19 00:08:01
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
I've found death company have performed fairly well, as long as they're not over-equipped. They can be equipped as ASM with boltguns and more attacks, and they're fairly good at being that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 00:14:09
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/10/19 00:49:06
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
senor_flojo wrote: Hopefully the codex will make DC more worthwhile to bring, but for now I’m leaving them out. Maybe at some point, remodel 10 to have no jump packs and throw them in a Stormraven with Lemmy and a DC dread.
I don’t plan to use either Stormraven as transportation for time being, just fast dakka.
Are typhoons better than multimeltas?
Yes, because of range. The whole shooting game right now is ranged anti-tank.
20 ppm is a bitter pill for a model with the capabilities of DC, imo.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 00:50:15
2017/10/19 01:32:28
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
Gotcha, I’ve always run meltas due to the -4 ap, but I guess -2 for 4x the range isn’t that bad of a compromise, and you still have the option to shoot 2d6 into weaker hordes.
2017/10/19 01:34:02
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
It's a big race to shoot wyverns, basilisks, manticores, predators, russes, etc off the table from long range, because you can't DS against them, can't assault them, can't melta them in 8th.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/19 01:34:30
2017/10/19 04:19:05
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
Martel732 wrote: It's a big race to shoot wyverns, basilisks, manticores, predators, russes, etc off the table from long range, because you can't DS against them, can't assault them, can't melta them in 8th.
Agreed. Unless they are just playing poorly, it's a shooting game... Which we will most likely lose. Thankfully most of my group is very casual now that we got tournament play out of our system and just play to roll dice and push dudes around. A few of us build more optimized lists, but nothing that could be considered tournament worthy.
2017/10/19 07:08:49
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
Hey guys, my GF is going to play with blood angels for the first time tomorrow (500 points). Unfortunately it will be a 2v2 and I don't think people will take into account she is quite new and never built an army before. What are strong 500 points lists that do not include a stormraven?
2017/10/19 10:18:38
Subject: Re:Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
Interesting list. I would possibly drop one of the twin autocannons from the dreadnought, or just go for a vanilla dread (CC & Assault cannon). It can be helpful to deter DSing terminators or the like from jacking up your tanks.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded
I love autocannons. A dread CC weapon is very powerful in CC, but if you dont get into CC with it the points are wasted. You can always shooting at something 48" away, making the points count. Im not scared of anything deepstriking. Making the 9" charge is not very likely, its only 28%.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 12:24:58
2017/10/19 13:27:41
Subject: Re:Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
p5freak wrote: I love autocannons. A dread CC weapon is very powerful in CC, but if you dont get into CC with it the points are wasted. You can always shooting at something 48" away, making the points count. Im not scared of anything deepstriking. Making the 9" charge is not very likely, its only 28%.
This is true, but I usually face things that allow re-rolls of the charge or something comparable. It is also good to have just in case you have something that rushes you to get in your face. The CC may be wasted for a turn or two, but it is definitely a solid deterent. The trade off is some shooting. I tend to have better luck with the assault cannons over the autocannons personally anyway.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded
senor_flojo wrote: I don’t plan to use either Stormraven as transportation for time being, just fast dakka.
Are typhoons better than multimeltas?
Yes, because of range. The whole shooting game right now is ranged anti-tank.
I tend to disagree here. Storm Ravens pay a lot for being a fast platform that ignore the -1 to Hit for moving and firing heavy weapons. I would say they are a great place for MMs since they are the easiest way to get them into range quickly.
If you want long ranged anti-tank you can get a Dev squad with 4 Lascannons and park them in cover in your back field and blaze away all day. Long ranged weapons by their nature don't need to be on fast platforms to be effective (although it does depend to some extent on how much LOS-blocking terrain you have).
I think the AC/MM loadout with Hurricans is best for the Storm Raven. At the end of the day, magnets rule.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
2017/10/20 21:48:41
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
There are 22" of enemy models between me and the artillery. Because they've got 90-180 conscripts on the table. And no gaps for the raven. They'll see the MM raven and make sure that they are spread out as much as possible, too. Typhoon/lascannon raven can't be denied. For the marines, it's 48" guns or go home in a body bag.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/20 23:20:55
2017/10/21 03:16:02
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
Look tbh martel, if your entire competitive scene comprises solely of these 100+ conscript armies, yeah hold off until the codex. Life's pretty poor for you at the moment, and I say that without sarcasm, I can appreciate that your gaming experience is very bland and depressing as a BA. I guess just do your best, but that's not really going to be a whole lot until codex/chapter approved. Without being too rude, if you're only basing your experience off one army, of course people are going to be a bit rude and dismissive. They have just cause. It's not your fault that you're facing such painfully spammy opponents 24/7, but for offering criticism to others who are not against such forces I think there are a few more options available.
Personally, against anything that doesn't deny you 22" of board space, I think the melta is very strong. The movement and durability of the vehicle almost totally negates the downsides of the melta, at least for the purposes of turn 1/2 tank hunting fun. I take the HB for points and to counter MEQ, which is still very prevalent for local competitions, but I completely see the upsides of the melta.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/21 04:20:37
2017/10/21 04:20:14
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
senor_flojo wrote: I’m so glad I’m not regularly playing against IG.....
I played my Guard army a few times, enough to realize that it wasn't really fun for either me, or my opponent. I normally just play my BA Successor until I get tired of losing games, and will whip out the Tallarn for a game or two to cheer me up again.
The amount of Mortal Wound spam this game has developed makes playing anything Space Marine (without Bobby G) incredibly tough. Our resilience of having a 3+ armor save is almost worthless this edition too, with how easily accessible AP-2 or higher weapons are and things that can throw buckets of dice (Leman Russ Punisher) forcing more saves. When we are paying in points over three times the cost of a Guardsman, those kinds of losses hurt us far more.
2017/10/21 06:03:02
Subject: Blood Angels Tactica - Assaulting and How Meph got a brand new sword.
Martel732 wrote: Not having to race your SR across the board has its advantages as well. You can outrange a lot of Xeno weapons with 6 shots.
And that's my Devastators are always MVP of my army. Even though they aren't super competitive since they all have Missile Launchers, and are squishy, they do more work than anything else. I am looking forward to using my Twin Assault Cannon Razorback though, my army is lacking some mid range anti infantry.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded 
