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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 ZergSmasher wrote:
That makes much more sense. I like that list, but I'm not sure it would do that well in my hopped-up ITC meta. I'm curious on the choice of grav guns too; the one time I tried them way back at the beginning of 8th edition, they just didn't perform. If they were Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire, they'd be okay. As it stands, I'd much much rather have plasma.

I am working on a mobile type of list besides my Azrael Hellblaster gunline list, and this does give me a good starting point. I'll probably have a unit of Plasma Inceptors in mine, though.


curious why you might say this army would have a hard time in the ITC Meta ? I run a similar list and i find it performs very well vs the ITC meta as far as a pure Dark Angels army goes. I would say taking Custode Bike Capts might ratchet this list up a bit in lew of the Talon Masters.. However i have never run 2 Talon Masters and Sammy so it would be interesting to try that route.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Looks to be over by about 60 points (could be more depending on Scout loadouts), so maybe pre-FAQ. Easy enough to adjust and keep the theme.

I'm getting ready for a 1,250 Great Crusade tourney. We have to have a named character and the list should represent his retinue. No super-heavies and only two Detachments. Since I've taken Azrael to the last two tourneys I am thinking:

Sammael on Corvex
Talonmaster
Ravenwing Black Knights x 6
Darkshroud
Tactical Squad with Lascannon
Scouts with Sniper Rifles/Cloaks
Scouts with Heavy Bolter
Dark Talon

I could sub-in Sammael on Sableclaw and go with less heavy weapons/snipers in the Troops. The Corvex model looks cooler though...

I have plenty of Ravenwing bikes and Ravenwing Elites (Champion, Apothecary etc) that could go in place of the Dark Talon, but it looks so nice and it draws attention.

Thoughts from my brother Masters?


I have yet to run Sammy on Corvex... anyone else do it ? Interested to see some results over him in the speeder.

Not a fan of the Tac squad .. i would go with a bare bones squad. not sure if any of the scout squads should be more than bare bones. If you go that route you might have the points to add in a single 3 man squad of regular bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Looks to be over by about 60 points (could be more depending on Scout loadouts), so maybe pre-FAQ. Easy enough to adjust and keep the theme.


yea.. looks like you can drop 1 RW Knight and the gravs off of the bike squad and you have the list. still very effective

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/16 02:55:12


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 zedsdead wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
That makes much more sense. I like that list, but I'm not sure it would do that well in my hopped-up ITC meta. I'm curious on the choice of grav guns too; the one time I tried them way back at the beginning of 8th edition, they just didn't perform. If they were Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire, they'd be okay. As it stands, I'd much much rather have plasma.

I am working on a mobile type of list besides my Azrael Hellblaster gunline list, and this does give me a good starting point. I'll probably have a unit of Plasma Inceptors in mine, though.


curious why you might say this army would have a hard time in the ITC Meta ? I run a similar list and i find it performs very well vs the ITC meta as far as a pure Dark Angels army goes. I would say taking Custode Bike Capts might ratchet this list up a bit in lew of the Talon Masters.. However i have never run 2 Talon Masters and Sammy so it would be interesting to try that route.

I think I read the list wrong. It's actually pretty decent. Black Knights seem kinda meh for their points, but they aren't absolutely godawful or anything. The list should absolutely murder hordes like Guard or Orks, but a heavily mechanized army could be a problem since there's relatively little heavy firepower in there (Rift Cannons, possibly Black Knights' plasma). I'll definitely give this some thought, as it's nice to see a Dark Angels list that doesn't use Azrael and Hellblasters.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Made in th
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DA champion list!

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/18/dark-angels-a-wischs-list/
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

That's interesting. I never really considered Aggressors much, or a Deredeo. Maybe I'll have to rethink this. Also, it's yet another successful DA list with 3 Dark Talons. I guess they are still pretty good even at their new price point.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Aggressors with Azrael are bonkers good, probably best in faction.

I noticed the plasma Deredeo on this thread's first page but I didn't think it was all that great. Maybe Azrael makes it great?

Battlescribe Catalog Editor - Please report bugs here http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor







I'm nor certain how seriously I would consider the Equilibrium store meta for the greater tournament scene. Especially when the three closest gaming stores (Black Diamond, Games/Antioch, Outflank Games) had tournaments on the same day.

I'm curious what their tactics were used with the DA flyers. Those things are hard to keep alive.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series 
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

 axisofentropy wrote:
Aggressors with Azrael are bonkers good, probably best in faction.

I noticed the plasma Deredeo on this thread's first page but I didn't think it was all that great. Maybe Azrael makes it great?


I've been creating an excel file comparing the anti-tank (and later the anti-infantry) options we have access to. For now I've done Deimos Predator, Relic Contemptor, Deredeo, Sicarans (all s7+ variants) and the Tarantula Sentry Gun.
Assuming optimal distance, still dreadnoughts, overcharging plasma and WotDA stratagem, the Hellfire Cannonade Deredeo is simply better than all of the others against T7 3+ (a bit less than 20 points per damage inflicted). The closest, inside the same list, is the Relic Contemptor with 2 Heavy Plasma Cannon and a Cyclone Missile Launcher - but even then it's almost 10 points per damage worse.

The plasma Deredeo is the best option (again, among that list) against T5 4+/5++ (Dark Eldar), but only 4 points per damage more than a Relic Contemptor with 2 twin Autocannons + CML.
It would be the best one vs T6 4+ (Necrons), but the Quantum Shielding makes it less valuable. The same AC Relic Contemptor is just a bit worse and more efficient (as the Necrons player would need to roll 1s instead of 3s or less).
Again, the plasma Deredeo wins - this time, vs T7 2+/5++ (Riptide). Didn't factor in 3++ because it would be just worse, but still better than the other options.
It's also the best option vs T8 3+ and 2+.

2 conclusions this far:
- WotDA is really a good stratagem.
- Plasma Deredeo is a really good anti-tank option. Too bad it's only 24".

I think I'll finish the AT part this weekend and I'll post the results here.

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 axisofentropy wrote:
Aggressors with Azrael are bonkers good, probably best in faction.

I guess if they don't have to move, they can absolutely murder hordes. Maybe I'll try a few at some point, as I am trying to figure out the best anti-horde option we currently have without taking allies.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 ZergSmasher wrote:
 axisofentropy wrote:
Aggressors with Azrael are bonkers good, probably best in faction.

I guess if they don't have to move, they can absolutely murder hordes. Maybe I'll try a few at some point, as I am trying to figure out the best anti-horde option we currently have without taking allies.


With Azzy and a LT a squad of 6 "on the move" still murders a 30 man conscript blob in 1 round of shooting. In most cases Agressors are going to have to move to be effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vector Strike wrote:
 axisofentropy wrote:
Aggressors with Azrael are bonkers good, probably best in faction.

I noticed the plasma Deredeo on this thread's first page but I didn't think it was all that great. Maybe Azrael makes it great?


I've been creating an excel file comparing the anti-tank (and later the anti-infantry) options we have access to. For now I've done Deimos Predator, Relic Contemptor, Deredeo, Sicarans (all s7+ variants) and the Tarantula Sentry Gun.
Assuming optimal distance, still dreadnoughts, overcharging plasma and WotDA stratagem, the Hellfire Cannonade Deredeo is simply better than all of the others against T7 3+ (a bit less than 20 points per damage inflicted). The closest, inside the same list, is the Relic Contemptor with 2 Heavy Plasma Cannon and a Cyclone Missile Launcher - but even then it's almost 10 points per damage worse.

The plasma Deredeo is the best option (again, among that list) against T5 4+/5++ (Dark Eldar), but only 4 points per damage more than a Relic Contemptor with 2 twin Autocannons + CML.
It would be the best one vs T6 4+ (Necrons), but the Quantum Shielding makes it less valuable. The same AC Relic Contemptor is just a bit worse and more efficient (as the Necrons player would need to roll 1s instead of 3s or less).
Again, the plasma Deredeo wins - this time, vs T7 2+/5++ (Riptide). Didn't factor in 3++ because it would be just worse, but still better than the other options.
It's also the best option vs T8 3+ and 2+.

2 conclusions this far:
- WotDA is really a good stratagem.
- Plasma Deredeo is a really good anti-tank option. Too bad it's only 24".

I think I'll finish the AT part this weekend and I'll post the results here.


have you factored in the Chap Dread with Plasma cannon into this ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 18:21:54


 
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

 zedsdead wrote:
have you factored in the Chap Dread with Plasma cannon into this ?


No, because it's not a prime ranged AT source. But I'll put it in there, alongside the Multi-Melta and Twin Lascannon options.
I'm almost finished with the AT part (I think I'll finish it before noon, GMT 0 time).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 08:18:22


AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Vector Strike wrote:
 zedsdead wrote:
have you factored in the Chap Dread with Plasma cannon into this ?


No, because it's not a prime ranged AT source. But I'll put it in there, alongside the Multi-Melta and Twin Lascannon options.
I'm almost finished with the AT part (I think I'll finish it before noon, GMT 0 time).


im very interested to see the outcome.

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Do me a favor and run the numbers against plasma inceptors? Their wounds inflicted per point overcharged with WftDA is the highest on my list for Marines and would love to be sure that I'm not over-looking anything.

They reliably earn their points+ back in one round of shooting (usually all they get) and are good at surgically removing the biggest enemy threat, in my experience. I prefer two groups of 4 but with their crazy PL I end up running one 5 and one 3 most of the time.
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

I'm halfway through the file. Give me more hours and I'll deliver it.

 zedsdead wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:
 zedsdead wrote:
have you factored in the Chap Dread with Plasma cannon into this ?


No, because it's not a prime ranged AT source. But I'll put it in there, alongside the Multi-Melta and Twin Lascannon options.
I'm almost finished with the AT part (I think I'll finish it before noon, GMT 0 time).


im very interested to see the outcome.


Well, From T5 4+ to T6 3+/5++, the Chaplain Dread isn't in a very good position... The Plasma Cannon one is certainly less worse than the Lascannon and Multi-Melta ones, but it is still lacklustre. Again, I'm not counting on the melee capacity.

bananathug wrote:
Do me a favor and run the numbers against plasma inceptors? Their wounds inflicted per point overcharged with WftDA is the highest on my list for Marines and would love to be sure that I'm not over-looking anything.

They reliably earn their points+ back in one round of shooting (usually all they get) and are good at surgically removing the biggest enemy threat, in my experience. I prefer two groups of 4 but with their crazy PL I end up running one 5 and one 3 most of the time.


Plasma Inceptors and Rapid Fire Hellblasters are showing quite the good numbers in my calculations. Even Assault Hellblasters aren't that bad against T5 and T6 stuff (both Hellblaster flavours are better than the Heavy one - considering everyone still)

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Vector Strike wrote:
Rapid Fire Hellblasters are showing quite the good numbers in my calculations. Even Assault Hellblasters aren't that bad against T5 and T6 stuff (both Hellblaster flavours are better than the Heavy one - considering everyone still)



This is actually very interesting to me. I have moved on from the standard HB and moved to the Assault version. I would like to see the numbers.

I run them with a bunch of agressors. Im constantly moving them and sometimes advancing alll the units.

Are you giving a stat on "advancing" Hellblasters ?

 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So, I'm thinking I may have found a little hidden gem in our codex in the form of Scout Bikes. Considering they get shotguns for free in addition to the bike's twin bolter, they seem pretty solid. Add to this that the sarge can take a storm bolter (in the Index, which is still valid for wargear choices), and can fire all of his weapons (so 10 bolter shots under 12"!) and they seem like a very nice source of cheap chaff-clearing power. I've got a buddy who likes to run them with his White Scars and they seem solid for him. Compared to standard Ravenwing, Scout Bikes cost 2 points less per model, have no access to specials (flamers, etc.) and don't get the Ravenwing keyword (so no Jink, Speed of the Raven, etc.), and they have a worse save, but I'm thinking they might still be worth including. Plus, they can use the Cluster Mines stratagem if they end up in combat and have to fall back.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

Here it is! The anti-tank spreadsheet and the PDF with the report. Also, spoilers!

Most cost-effective units:

Tier 1: Plasma Inceptors, Plasmagun Veterans, Rapid Fire Hellblasters

Tier 2: Plasma Deredeo, Quad Rapier, Plasma Devastators, Assault Hellblasters, Black Knights, LC+PG Razorback, Meltagun Veterans, Plasma Cannon Veteran

Tier 3: HPC+CML Relic Contemptor, LC/AC/MM/HPC+CML Contemptor-Mortis, Laser Rapier, CMLan/SCA Leviathan, HPC+ML* (Venerable) Dread, MM Devastators, Heavy Hellblasters, MM Land Speeder, Land Speeder Vengeance

Disclaimer: Dark Talon didn't show up as any kind of promising unit, but as we all know reality is different. Anyway, this is for anti-tank, while Dark Talons are known for mowing down infantry. Next month it'll certainly shine in my calculations

* Just noticed I wrote 'CML' instead of 'ML'. Please consider it as 'ML'.

 zedsdead wrote:

This is actually very interesting to me. I have moved on from the standard HB and moved to the Assault version. I would like to see the numbers.

I run them with a bunch of agressors. Im constantly moving them and sometimes advancing alll the units.

Are you giving a stat on "advancing" Hellblasters ?


No, because I'm lazy after doing this for the entire weekend.
I'm posting the spreadsheet as well, so all you have to do is remove the '+0,17' from each 'Tx Y++' columns regarding said units to see the numbers and compare with the PDF for each bracket.
I'd guess it wouldn't make them any much different, as they're already some of the best choices for DA.

---
Ah, as anything GW-related, a errata must follow the main product.
- Report, page 1, point 2: Redemptor Dreadnought's underarm Gatling weapon WAS factored in my calculations.
- Report, page 1, point 9: instead of 'damage inflicted', read 'weapon damage'. 'Damage inflicted' is the result of the formulae. PPD is the point cost of the unit divided by the damaged inflicted.
 Filename Most Cost-Effective Units.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description Spreadsheet for Dark Angels
 File size 108 Kbytes

 Filename Cost-Effective post dakka dakka.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description Report - read it first!
 File size 204 Kbytes

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/05/21 03:23:29


AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

London GT results are in!
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/756135.page#9986322

6th place has a soup army with some RW, but no other DA list made to top 10. :(

Got the site with general results: https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/xk7q97gb
Lists here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QuVR2KdfKO08bBLYw9vobghM_xwhejofmtyXQ7LgQU8/edit

The best 'main' Da list only made up to 52nd place... others are at 133rd, 251st, 282nd, 291st, 298th, 326th and 346th.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/22 22:18:19


AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So looking at that top DA list (that finished 52nd overall) its interesting in that there is not a Hellblaster in sight. The plasma is sourced from Company Veterans and Inceptors mainly, which does track with the results that Vector Strike came up with above as being about as effective as Hellblasters. The list also had no Dark Talons in it either. He did, however, have the standard 3 Golden Jetcaptains seen in almost every Imperial list these days.

This is making me want to revisit Company Veterans. Maybe there's something to them if people are having some success with them. They are slightly cheaper than Hellblasters, but to me not enough since they only have 1 wound and slightly worse AP on their guns. 4 ppm for an extra wound is worth it IMO. The main thing Vets can do that Hellblasters cannot is ride in any transport other than a Repulsor. I'm planning on picking up a Stormraven from a friend soon, so maybe I'll try dropping a few Vets out of that and see what happens.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






not sure how much weight i would give here.

 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest






Varying cities in the North

Hi all, this is my 2,000 point list with influences from some on here. Thinking the second Talonmaster is unnecessary though, so tempted to swap him out for a different HQ choice? Any ideas?


Dark Angels Spearhead 1CP

Sammael on bike 183

8 Black Knights – corvus hammers 384
3 Bikes – 2 flamers 99
3 Bikes – 2 meltas 115
Darkshroud 128

Dark Angels Battalion 3CP
Talonmaster 188
Talonmaster 188

Scouts 90
Scouts 90
Scouts 90

Dark Talon 200
Dark Talon 200

1955
7CP

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/25 15:04:39


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Sledgio wrote:
Hi all, this is my 2,000 point list with influences from some on here.
looks fun.

The Fast Attack detachment is called an "Outrider". The Battalion now grants 5 CP instead of 3 so you have 9 total.

A second plasma unit might provide redundancy. Maybe Inceptors?

Battlescribe Catalog Editor - Please report bugs here http://battlescribedata.appspot.com/#/repo/wh40k 
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

Guys, I've updated the spreadsheet and the report. It shall provide more accurate results!
It is still limited to anti-tank (both ranged and melee), but next month I'll do anti-infantry.
 Filename Most Cost-Effective Units.xlsx [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 232 Kbytes

 Filename Most Cost-Effective Units Report - Anti-Tank.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 236 Kbytes


AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

That's a cool analysis! Looks like maybe Veterans should be in every list, at least with plasma. I wonder how they'll fare in the anti-infantry calculations?

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Looking at the results of your comprehensive survey, it looks lie Assault Hellblasters actually better at fighting T8+ tanks such as the Leman Russ that the Heavy Hellblasters.

I was sort of considering Heavy Hellblaster do to the longer range and the S9 guns. But maybe not.

Then there is the rapid fire variant. But you have to get in pretty damn close to get your two shots.
I'm worried that in an actual game, are the closer range varients really going to be able to get close enough to do work without being blasted off the table?


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/28 14:48:44


 
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

 dan2026 wrote:
Looking at the results of your comprehensive survey, it looks lie Assault Hellblasters actually better at fighting T8+ tanks such as the Leman Russ that the Heavy Hellblasters.

I was sort of considering Heavy Hellblaster do to the longer range and the S9 guns. But maybe not.

Then there is the rapid fire variant. But you have to get in pretty damn close to get your two shots.
I'm worried that in an actual game, are the closer range varients really going to be able to get close enough to do work without being blasted off the table?




Just take note that this comparison is unit-by-unit basis. Azrael really helps RF Hellblasters do their job - and they do it better than either different Hellblaster option.
I'd say Plasma Devastators simply surpass Heavy Hellblasters to the point the latter aren't really in the same league

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Vector Strike wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
Looking at the results of your comprehensive survey, it looks lie Assault Hellblasters actually better at fighting T8+ tanks such as the Leman Russ that the Heavy Hellblasters.

I was sort of considering Heavy Hellblaster do to the longer range and the S9 guns. But maybe not.

Then there is the rapid fire variant. But you have to get in pretty damn close to get your two shots.
I'm worried that in an actual game, are the closer range varients really going to be able to get close enough to do work without being blasted off the table?




Just take note that this comparison is unit-by-unit basis. Azrael really helps RF Hellblasters do their job - and they do it better than either different Hellblaster option.
I'd say Plasma Devastators simply surpass Heavy Hellblasters to the point the latter aren't really in the same league

So for taking on T8 targets like Leman Russes what would you recommend?
Devastators?
   
Made in ro
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

 dan2026 wrote:

So for taking on T8 targets like Leman Russes what would you recommend?
Devastators?


RF Hellblasters, Plasma Veterans, Plasma Inceptors and Plasma Devastators are the most cost-effective units to do that (all overcharging and with WotdA).
But a Leviathan Dread with 2x Cyclonic Melta Lance will kill a Leman Russ per turn, in average (13.60 damage inflicted if standing still*, 11.60 if moved). Standing still, overcharging and using WotDA RF Hellblasters at half-range will more or less kill one too (11.76 damage inflicted), followed by Inceptors (same conditions: 11.71 damage inflicted). Company Veterans and Plasma Devastators, folloing the same conditions, won't kill one Leman Russ in average (less than 10 damage caused)

*standing still can be exchanged for a nearby Master/Azrael

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Vector Strike wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:

So for taking on T8 targets like Leman Russes what would you recommend?
Devastators?


RF Hellblasters, Plasma Veterans, Plasma Inceptors and Plasma Devastators are the most cost-effective units to do that (all overcharging and with WotdA).
But a Leviathan Dread with 2x Cyclonic Melta Lance will kill a Leman Russ per turn, in average (13.60 damage inflicted if standing still*, 11.60 if moved). Standing still, overcharging and using WotDA RF Hellblasters at half-range will more or less kill one too (11.76 damage inflicted), followed by Inceptors (same conditions: 11.71 damage inflicted). Company Veterans and Plasma Devastators, folloing the same conditions, won't kill one Leman Russ in average (less than 10 damage caused)

*standing still can be exchanged for a nearby Master/Azrael


And this here is the rub. I am finding that S7 hellblasters are a bit overkill in so many instances. i find my HBs shooting at T4-6 stuff so much more often. Im still on the fence but i am finding the Assault HBs version a bit more versitile. I almost never get outranged and im getting 2 shots out of them. With Azzy they are great. Sure the RFHBs are awsome but by then im in such close range im getting shot or charged. Its still a tough one but im liking my Assault HBs more and more.

 
   
Made in ca
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





 ZergSmasher wrote:
That's a cool analysis! Looks like maybe Veterans should be in every list, at least with plasma. I wonder how they'll fare in the anti-infantry calculations?


I would like to point out that I asked about this idea months ago and promptly got shot down that they were too expensive! Oh, irony.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Shrapnelbait wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
That's a cool analysis! Looks like maybe Veterans should be in every list, at least with plasma. I wonder how they'll fare in the anti-infantry calculations?


I would like to point out that I asked about this idea months ago and promptly got shot down that they were too expensive! Oh, irony.

To be honest, their damage per point is really good as per the analysis, but with just 1 wound their survivability per point is probably not so great. Hence why people (including myself probably) said they were too expensive. One way to mitigate that and make sure they get to shoot would be to let them ride in a Stormraven or something, perhaps.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
 
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