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The way I see it, even if this works out as described, there's not much chance Kevin will allow Scott to take the credit. He's never been one to have someone overshadow him.

So win or lose, I expect there to be a bus coming, with Scott's name underneath.

 Swabby wrote:
I won't believe for a second that someone with that much money to throw around would invest it in Palladium.

How do you make a million dollars in the hobby games industry?

Start with two million dollars!

Ba-dum-tish!

 Swabby wrote:
I won't believe for a second that someone with that much money to throw around would invest it in Palladium.

Normally I'd agree but he is a fan friend after all and we saw how easily Carmen was duped---I mean convinced, to give up his windfall.

 Swabby wrote:
I won't believe for a second that someone with that much money to throw around would invest it in Palladium.

I could see someone doing it. I just don't see them doing it and keeping Kevin in the company.

But...but...Kevin is the Goose that lays the Golden Eggs!

(or keeps dropping non-golden turds, depending on your perspective)

I don't fully agree with my theory either... just a theory..

But there are people out there that sees Kevin as a great designer.
And in the past I may have agreed.

The thing is a great designer don't make you a great business man.
Looking at his past history, he has had a ton of money trouble.
There is were you should consider now on backing his company..
As most of us RTT kickstarter backers have found out..

With that, I am sure you know people in your own personal life that are nice people
and great to hang out with... but wouldn't give them money to save their life.

They get the benefit of doubt when they have shown some progress. Which they haven't in almost 2 years. Until then, regardless of what goes on, Palladium and Kickstarter are just a bunch of thieves and liars.

What was the last product that Kevin fully created and wrote himself? Im pretty sure that everything put out in the last few years have been written by other people and then corrected by Kevin to fit his genius vision.

 Genoside07 wrote:
I am just spit balling here....

Next thing you'll tell us is that a boutique furniture company bought a game company without knowing how deep they were in debt and rented a zoo!

Oh, wait.

Anyway, I skimmed for Scott Gibbons on LinkedIn, but didn't find one with a toy or game background (I didn't click on the links to see everyone's full resume) in Michigan. If anyone finds anything public, please post.

Warboss posted this link with Scott as a fan friend: https://palladium-store.com/press/openhousereport2010.html

I will give him credit for at least coming across as Professional. His posts actually sound like they are coming from a business perspective.

Reading his updates do come across completely different from the Kevin and Wayne ones.

Yes, I give credit to Scott for being professional compared to Kevin, but one day he will have to disagree with him...

One day soon Kevin will come up with the idea of Rifts flavored peanut butter and want to pour a bunch of money into it.
Scott will have to disagree and that when the proof that he can push against bad projects that will only loose them money.

The two RTT updates are nice.. and show someone is trying to calm the crowd.. instead of trying to incite a riot like during
the rift game kickstarter one of the moderators said they would not answer any questions from backers of a $1.

By Gen Con we will know if he is going to lead them to better places or just singing along with the chorus..

ced1106 wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:
I am just spit balling here....

Next thing you'll tell us is that a boutique furniture company bought a game company without knowing how deep they were in debt and rented a zoo!

Is this a specific reference I've missed?

 Genoside07 wrote:
Yes, I give credit to Scott for being professional compared to Kevin, but one day he will have to disagree with him...

One day soon Kevin will come up with the idea of Rifts flavored peanut butter and want to pour a bunch of money into it.
Scott will have to disagree and that when the proof that he can push against bad projects that will only loose them money.

The two RTT updates are nice.. and show someone is trying to calm the crowd.. instead of trying to incite a riot like during
the rift game kickstarter one of the moderators said they would not answer any questions from backers of a $1.

By Gen Con we will know if he is going to lead them to better places or just singing along with the chorus..

Yep. Those are the two concerns I have, regarding Scott's effectiveness. What he'll be able to do if there's a fundamental disagreement in direction with Kevin, and with the timetable he's given so far, what he'll be able to accomplish before he's seen as just another mouthpiece.

I like the confidence and professional demeanor he's had so far, and the acceptance that there's a hostile (or at the least skeptical) environment he's got to deal with, but that'll only get him so far.

If there's no visible progress in the next 4 Updates, I don't think there'll be anyone that will continue to give him any benefit of the doubt that isn't already in the tank for PB. And if he misses the July 4th deadline, I expect things to go very poorly for him. Because it'll just seem like more of the "overpromise, underdeliver" that we're used to.

Given the length of this clusterfeth (almost 214 weeks, another 6 isn't much), that's not a long time to try to right the ship. And again, I wonder how Kevin will feel if things do start to turn for the better, and Scott (not Kevin) is seen as the reason for this.

Merijeek wrote:
Is this a specific reference I've missed?

Search on "geek chic crash games" for more info, but here're some BGG threads:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1795447/geek-chic-appears-be-dead
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1795447/geek-chic-appears-be-dead/page/3

As Genoside07 says, "The thing is a great designer don't make you a great business man". GC is just another example of how being skilled in one area, in this case furniture building, doesn't mean you're skilled in another.

Also, like KS, GC had a long period of time between the time you paid for your product (pre-order?) and received it. With the company bankrupt, it's not clear how customers are being refunded, if they will. Some of those who are still waiting on their orders after having paid for them are resorting to cc disputes.

Myself, I'm curious if anyone who puts in such a pre-order directly from a company doesn't back KS projects because of the risk of non-delivery and delays.

Geek Chic was something I always wondered how it would survive, High end gaming tables is a very narrow market. And once someone buys a table I doubt they would
buy another in their life time. So that makes a customer base dry up the more they sale.. Plus other companies opened that did a similar cheaper product. That means
it will not end well.. Plus most companies plan years ahead what to move to as the product that is currently selling well no longer does. Seems there was no future plans to
move to. But they knew when to call it and stopped.. unlike other companies

That is what amazes me about Palladium, they don't release product regularly; have a very limited community now, but still manages to keep the door open by some miracle.
There is no way with the past money trouble that Kevin had, that he was able to have anything left of the 1.4 million of kick starter money after four years. That's what makes
me wonder how wave two will ever be produced and paid for.

The other thing is all the weird products that Palladium is doing instead of what we already paid them for RTT, that is actually game products.. Instead they make rifts playing cards
and metal drinking tumblers. Always in very limited numbers and keep saying.. they have a very small supply left so buy them fast.. How is it when you start with a small supply of something
that its important to point out you only have a few left. Start with 12, So rush now.to buy. we only have 10 left...

How exactly is the fact Palladium hired yet another fan friend good news?
Surely the first action of any competent business manager would be to stop hiring fan friends?

Just came across this gencon thread; http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=153439

It seems they cant even attract the minimum number of players.

I admire how Kevin manages to find tournament runners as clueless and unsophisticated as he is.

That's got to take some serious talent.

Still at 3/12 spots taken? Ouch.

Compared to the other events that seem to have mostly filled out swiftly, I think it rather clearly indicates that those who were concerned about the parts count weren't wrong.

Players are relatively eager to spend time playing if they don't have to supply the models. With the caveat that it's possible that most of those taken slots are a handful of *really* dedicated players who are willing to spend most of Gencon doing these mini events. Heh, it could be like the same 4-6'ish people at all of them for all we know.

Regardless, that's just my take on things. And before anyone bothers nitpicking, I'm not saying 'the game is totes popular!', I'm saying that even at the low bar the tournament sets of 200 points, it's pretty unpopular compared to the 15+ other events that I believe all supply the pieces used.

Obviously the big revamp of RRT that's allegedly going to happen (any year now...) isn't going to occur in the next 7 weeks, so maybe the Open House (if it happens next year) or 2018 will be the big turn around (said massively tongue in cheek).

Well i will let Scott hang himself so to speak if that's what happens but I won't hang him myself just yet. I'll him breathe a little first.

Merijeek wrote:
I admire how Kevin manages to find tournament runners as clueless and unsophisticated as he is.

That's got to take some serious talent.

I wouldn't go that far. Dan may not be the most experienced TO out there, but given what he's got to work with (Kevin having final word on things, noone at PB giving a damn about the game, and the game being unfinished), I think he's done about as well as can be expected.

The fact of the matter is, Tournament Organization is an experience thing. And there's two paths to that.

The first, is by running tournaments. Finding out what works, what doesn't, and what needs specific clarification. And PB's public support (or lack thereof) and reputation hasn't given people much cover to do things.

The second is by poaching existing TO's with a better product. A lot of good TO's got their "convention legs" with other games, and migrated to their current game. And well... RRT isn't likely to get a serious TO to jump ship.

I definitely don't put the fault on Dan for the anemic numbers (still at 3 players each). That a game that sold at least 4000 copies in the United States can't get 1/10th of a percent of that to play in a tournament at one of the biggest gaming conventions in the world for the first time in over two years, isn't on the TO. It's on a game that for one reason or another, is on life support.

I'm not faulting him on the tournament numbers. Kevin slit RRT's throat and dumped it in the gutter years ago.

But his flip-flopping tap dance on the miniatures is clearly someone who doesn't actually give a gak, but for some reason is obligated to deal with it.

Merijeek wrote:
I'm not faulting him on the tournament numbers. Kevin slit RRT's throat and dumped it in the gutter years ago.

But his flip-flopping tap dance on the miniatures is clearly someone who doesn't actually give a gak, but for some reason is obligated to deal with it.

Agreed. But it was a "damned if you do/don't" situation.

You don't allow them, you piss off those who bought them. You do allow them, you piss off those who didn't or couldn't buy them.

And I wouldn't put it past Kevin to have insisted. After all, the promo figures are the only new releases in the past 2.5 years.

Well, that depends on whether or not you count the paper minis, doesn't it?

...and we have now competed the Circle Of Deep - brought to you by Kevin Siembieda's ego.

I'm guessing the three registered players are the superfan cheerleader team of Tom, Peter, and NMI?

Could also be Subjugator or some of the freelancers. Although the fact kevin hasnt forced anyone to turn up and make up the numbers shows how he little he gives a gak.

 Forar wrote:
Still at 3/12 spots taken? Ouch.

Hey, maybe all the players that might have been interested on that are signed off to the L5R tournies. I mean, between the two of them thats a thousand players, so...

Hey, it might happen!

 jaymz wrote:
Well i will let Scott hang himself so to speak if that's what happens but I won't hang him myself just yet. I'll him breathe a little first.

I suppose it is a matter of what you are used to but I cannot see this environment being a flurry of activity.
I am sure any delays we see from here-in will be the Kevin approval and editing process.
I am sure many of us would like to be "honorable" and wait till he gets his footing rather than "kick him while he is down" which is the temptation.
It is a catch 22, Palladium is not an organization worth benefit of the doubt but you do not want to abuse a possible force for positive change in the organization.

Kevin sure knows how to fan the sliver of flame called hope for all it's worth.
I like it when I am wrong since I tend to be so negative, I fully expect not to see wave 2 ever.
But it is like watching a car crash seeing Kevin try everything to make money despite basically scamming it out of us through RRT.

Yeah, I am afraid Scott is guilty by association and hopefully is a "big boy" and would be foolish to not have done his homework and know what he was getting into.
I want to see if he is part of the PB crowd that believes "Why do something now that you can do later?".

May the odds ever be in his favor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

evilsmurf wrote:
Just came across this gencon thread; http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=153439
It seems they cant even attract the minimum number of players.

Worst part of all this is the circular logic or "feedback" this gives Kevin:
RRT is a failure, therefore why chase good money after bad?
Keep the money, delay RRT forever = "win".
BTW he can think "Phew! Thank goodness for Kickstarter, I would have hated to lose my money on this stinker!".

I don't know what to thik anymore. Getting PB to change its spots isn't likely as long as Kevin remains at the helm.

But they could at least get productive again like they were back in the 90's with the right push. But, at best that would be for Rifts product.

RRT on the other hand, is dead. We'll never see wave 2, the effort to ressurect it has gone too far out of their ability to reign it back in - they have surely squandered the funds they need to finish b now, and/or tied it up in dead Wave 1 stock.

So I think Scott may help them turn around their Rifts IP, but they're all deluded if they think RRT will ever be anything more than a millstone about their neck.

I know the Rifts Sooperfans are sick of hearing about Robotech at every turn but I don't think the Palladium faithful are quite as large with open hearts and wallets anymore. How can Scooter move forward with anything when there's a 1.44 million dollar albatross around the neck of the company regardless of which particular IP they're trying to sling? Palladium has been kind of a joke since since the Treacheris of Crisery and the Robotech shenanigans have done them zero favors. Meet the new boss, he's actually the old boss to twist a lyric. If Kevayneott thinks a new voice preaching the same tired lies will reinvigorate his worn out welcome of the gaming community, he's in for a shock. All the good will comments on the kickstarter welcoming Scott as a voice of sanity are not equal to dollars getting paid into Palladium for new product.
Scott's soothing platitudes will not equate to a successful gRifts kickstarter. All it does is buy Kevin more time to dither about how he's going to break the news that someone other than him completely screwed up the Robotech kickstarter. Maybe Kevster should make the Tony Reidy/Definance route and blame the Chinese for all his woes.