Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Lemondish wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
So all DW really loses is red rampage. DW has actual useful troops. More than makes up, imo.

Compared to the blood angel captain you lose
Turn 1 charge, (Massive)
3d6 charge (Massive)
Psychic power support to buff your attacks,
stratagem to give you d3 additional attacks,
relic to ignore overwatch, (Massive)
Stratagem to give the guy a 6+ FNP and one more attack

What you gain
Re-roll ones to wound if you are attacking the force org slot that your whole army gets.
Special issue ammo bolt pistol

--

There really is no contest. The blood angel smash captain is king. If you are looking for a smash captain you will go to the blood angels every time.

I was thinking the generic capt with no relics. People bring multiples a lot, and only one can do those things. They usually die the turn thereafter. I'm not sure how good the whole approach really is.

Even without relics the blood angel captain still works and you can chuck one every turn. And yeah they will die the turn after, but even then they soak up firepower that the rest of your army does not need to take. 5 wounds with a 3++ and 6+++ can take a few kickings.

Absolutely true - no contest on any of these points. That isn't to say the jump captain isn't a good option if you need that type of unit and can't find the points to fit it into your list otherwise. Sometimes quantity can be its own quality and you bring a couple of these thunder hammer/storm bolter guys that don't eat up as much CP, aren't relying on additional psykers, and don't require a whole other detachment to unlock. Obviously not the most efficient, but then again this is a marine army

Anybody tried the meltafist Termie captain?

I did one with a Melta Fist, Grenade Launcher, and Storm Bolter. It's not good (at all) but it was so much fun.

How are you using the grenade launcher? Neither codex nor index let DW take that as far as I can tell. I want to be wrong.

Vortenger wrote:
How are you using the grenade launcher? Neither codex nor index let DW take that as far as I can tell. I want to be wrong.

Battlescribe (erroneously) lists it as an Index option, but after flipping through the Index it looks to be a mistake. It's possible folks just don't have the Index on hand to verify what Battlescribe says for options.

Normal Termie Caps for codex marines can take it, but the DW page is pretty strict on what options for wargear they have.

It's a pity Heavy Thunder Hammers aren't good enough to solve some of the AT woe.

I think the index states to used the Vanilla captain entry, which has that as an option.

(edit) looks like I was wrong. DW Terminator Captains are basically forbidden from changing default weapons, thus they can't have the Grenade launcher.

Lemondish wrote:

Vortenger wrote:
How are you using the grenade launcher? Neither codex nor index let DW take that as far as I can tell. I want to be wrong.

Battlescribe (erroneously) lists it as an Index option, but after flipping through the Index it looks to be a mistake. It's possible folks just don't have the Index on hand to verify what Battlescribe says for options.

Normal Termie Caps for codex marines can take it, but the DW page is pretty strict on what options for wargear they have.

It's a pity Heavy Thunder Hammers aren't good enough to solve some of the AT woe.

The Index does have it though? Did I miss that? I know they're definitely strict about stuff.

Lemondish wrote:

mrtomski wrote:
I'll struggle to fit the xiphon in my list and not sure I want to shell out on another fw model. Although it does look cool, I worry about the bs 3, as it would be hard to get rerolls.

Anyone had luck with a vanguard vet hammer squad?

I think with hellblasters, 4 Las, storm cannons, I have a solid fire base... but there is something missing for the added punch.

What are your captains up to?

My hq at the moment is watchmaster, lib, and captain with a jump pack with the beacon. The idea is he goes up the field with the rhino and teleports an intercessor / hellblasters squad. Or saves one which is in trouble later in the game.

I'm tempted to drop the lib, but having some defence against smite seems very wise with this army.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Vortenger wrote:
How are you using the grenade launcher? Neither codex nor index let DW take that as far as I can tell. I want to be wrong.

Battlescribe (erroneously) lists it as an Index option, but after flipping through the Index it looks to be a mistake. It's possible folks just don't have the Index on hand to verify what Battlescribe says for options.

Normal Termie Caps for codex marines can take it, but the DW page is pretty strict on what options for wargear they have.

It's a pity Heavy Thunder Hammers aren't good enough to solve some of the AT woe.

The Index does have it though? Did I miss that? I know they're definitely strict about stuff.

It's a bit complicated. The Index vanilla marine captain in Terminator armour has it, and the Deathwatch section says to use that data sheet. However, the Deathwatch Wargear section says the only change to default wargear an Index Deathwatch captain in Terminator armour can make is a relic blade over a power sword. Sadly, no nade launcher available :(

That is what I had thought. I really wanted to be wrong.

Well you can take some options as of the Deathwatch FAQ:

ERR ATA
Page 67
– Watch Captain in Terminator Armour,
Wargear Options
Change the first bullet point to read:
‘• This model may replace its storm bolter with a
lightning claw, storm shield, thunder hammer or one
item from the
Terminator Combi-weapons
l i st .’
Change the second bullet point to read:
‘• This model may replace its relic blade with a lightning
claw, storm shield or one item from the
Terminator
Melee Weapons
l i st .

But yeah nowhere do I spot a grenade launcher.

Since I'm running some Scions for command points I was going to use them as a suicide screen.

2x bare bones Scion squads deepstriking in with a Tempestor giving out double orders. 1CP for a lovely squad of SB/SS/Frag vets with a vanguard to shoot n scoot. 1CP for rapid fire Intercessor/Hellblaster blender also with an Inceptor to shoot n scoot. 1CP for big daddy Watch Master handing out alternate tactic with the Tome of Ectoclades.

3rd Scion squad sits in my backfield along with second Tempestor with CP regen relic (along with Lord of Hidden knowledge on Watch Master) to screen my Chaplain Dreads dumping Lascannons into those dirty xenos.

What do you all think about layering for the deepstrike?

Bad Guys --[9 inches]--> Scions --> Vets --> Fortis + Watch Master

The sad thing about bare bones Scions is that with 18" guns they have to deep strike out of Rapid Fire range. I tried this for a while, but ultimately switched to regularly infantry for the backfield with the Scions mostly saved as a Plasma drop command squad.

Anyone consider using detachment of normal space marines to assist with anti tank? Thinking of adding 3 autocannon/lascannon sponsor preds in a spearhead detachment led by a techmarine.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone consider using detachment of normal space marines to assist with anti tank? Thinking of adding 3 autocannon/lascannon sponsor preds in a spearhead detachment led by a techmarine.

IG are much better at it.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone consider using detachment of normal space marines to assist with anti tank? Thinking of adding 3 autocannon/lascannon sponsor preds in a spearhead detachment led by a techmarine.

The predator squad is ok at best. You will rarely get to use their stratagem due to one of them dying (and they will die) plus the autocannon is not that amazing against tanks. If you want support of the tank nature you probably want to look at Imperial Guard tanks or raven guard FW Mortis dreadnoughts.

Ven dreads are quite the cheese. As are mortis contemptors.

How about a dread detachment anyone tried that?

Rogerio134134 wrote:
How about a dread detachment anyone tried that?

I probably wouldn't go pure dreadnought, but I think there's potential along with some Aggressors or by putting in a Leviathan with some Hellblasters.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone consider using detachment of normal space marines to assist with anti tank? Thinking of adding 3 autocannon/lascannon sponsor preds in a spearhead detachment led by a techmarine.

Hellblaster squad with 5 intercessor meatshields are durable, effective, and fill a troop slot.

I like Dreads because you can teleport them point blank, but I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better served by agressors.

Martel732 wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone consider using detachment of normal space marines to assist with anti tank? Thinking of adding 3 autocannon/lascannon sponsor preds in a spearhead detachment led by a techmarine.

IG are much better at it.

And they just bleed secondary points in the ITC missions too.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
How about a dread detachment anyone tried that?

I have, but my local meta has shifted away from ultra competitive once the group of hardcore netlisters stepped away from the game. They were so important to balance around here, so it's left a hole. Now the quality of the lists is up and down around here - lots of folks eager to either play the models they like or try off the wall crazy gak. Hell, I've even jumped in and started playing combi-meltas.

So take this with a grain of salt, but a dread detachment is awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone consider using detachment of normal space marines to assist with anti tank? Thinking of adding 3 autocannon/lascannon sponsor preds in a spearhead detachment led by a techmarine.

Hellblaster squad with 5 intercessor meatshields are durable, effective, and fill a troop slot.

I like Dreads because you can teleport them point blank, but I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better served by agressors.

Yeah, that Intercessor squad is also almost 300 points.

How good are aggressors, they can't use sia right? I'm planning on two squads of vets with storm bolters and frag cannons plus a hellbaster mixed squad. I'm thinking I'll have enough sia dakka that more standard bolter shots won't be needed...

I don’t think they are good unless you attach them to Intercessors.

Had a game against my own 2k Thousand Sons list last night. I was shocked to absolutely romp home with it! I ran 2 teams of assault intercessors with 1 aggressor in each squad - they both did amazing work. Their advance and shoot allows you to set them up for next turn, when their aggressor can go all spray n'pray.

mrtomski wrote:
How good are aggressors, they can't use sia right? I'm planning on two squads of vets with storm bolters and frag cannons plus a hellbaster mixed squad. I'm thinking I'll have enough sia dakka that more standard bolter shots won't be needed...

Agressors are great but they are high-priority targets for your opponents due to the low wounds and dangerous powerfists. You'll need to either pay the CP to teleport them or buy the 5 intercessors to act as meatshields. I normally advocate the 5 man intercessor option, but there is the serious issue that they do great at dakka, terribly at melee.

There's a lot to be said for obsec troops that are tough, can put out 16+1d6 shots, and move at an average of 9.5". 142pts is quite a bit, but I think that 5 assault intercessors and an agressor is a very nice bully/obsec unit. I'm going to run two in my next few games and see how they go against different opponents.

Honestly their effectiveness is directly proportional to how much 2 damage, or D3 damage fire your opponent can put out. Lots of missile pods, dissy cannons, or battle cannons and it get super ugly real fast.

If they have to dakka you down one wound at a time, it's pretty strong.

Aggressors lack SIA, but they really like Watch Masters, Mission Tactics, and the +Wound strategems.

Aggressors don't need SIA, they have RoF. Intercessors needed it because their RoF sucks.

I'm still trying to get dakka inceptors to work. s5 with the +1 wound strat and native -1 ap seems like it works well on paper.

Problem is if I attach them to primaris squads they move to slow and die too easy but if I don't they die easier...

Deepstriking really isn't an option because I've learned that allowing your opponent 2 turns to shoot you without having shot all you can at him is a losing strategy.

I thought mixed primaris squads would work but the moment that knight with the endless relic gun looked at my squads they melted or when a couple ravagers come around the corner t5 2w 3+ just isn't getting the job done...

bananathug wrote:
I'm still trying to get dakka inceptors to work. s5 with the +1 wound strat and native -1 ap seems like it works well on paper.

Problem is if I attach them to primaris squads they move to slow and die too easy but if I don't they die easier...

Deepstriking really isn't an option because I've learned that allowing your opponent 2 turns to shoot you without having shot all you can at him is a losing strategy.

I thought mixed primaris squads would work but the moment that knight with the endless relic gun looked at my squads they melted or when a couple ravagers come around the corner t5 2w 3+ just isn't getting the job done...

Stop thinking you can get gak done with a single marine unit without redundancy. Saw a bunch of folks try 4 Intercessor units with auto bolters and an Aggressor in each the other day as an anvil. Not as much immediate dakka as a single 5/5 Intergressor squad, but spread out, super mobile, and most importantly - separate units. Those ravagers can manage a single 6 man squad if they have god rolls - they can't kill all four, and the three Aggressors left standing will ruin them (alongside 10 SIA bolter shots). Never underestimate the value of spreading out the mixed parts.