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 Swabby wrote:
Have you guys seen that HG is now suing Piranha games, Hairbrained Schemes, and Catalyst Game Labs for copyright infringement ? Same old unseen lawsuit but amped up.

The implications are rather interesting considering the crossover business between RRT and Battletech.

I hadn't seen or hear of this. Wonder if They will countersue for frivolous lawsuits. This is obviously a ploy to cost competitors funds.

Maybe ask them to address the specifics of your complaint, rather than just copypaste something?

Couldn't hurt - but it also won't hurt to bullet point/number them for them again, so it is clear what they're supposed to answer.

We really just need one of the Japanese companies that owns some of the Macross IP to spend the time/money to challenge HG's assertion that their IP on Robotech covers all "Macross" IP in the United States.

Then we could actually get the new Macross series released here in America and companies could license out mech designs and such without HG being a road block.

Obviously I don't concede the notion that it's impossible to work out an equitable pro-rated sum for outstanding Battle Cry tiers, but even if we leave that aside for a moment, even just refunding amounts paid on wave 2 add ons (extra Gnerls and Super VTs and VEF/1D packs and MAC-II's) would be a semi-reasonable compromise.

Further obviously they have no interest in doing that, which kind of gives up how little faith they have always had (and continue to have) in the project. If they were actually confident that it would not only deliver but sell well at retail and online, then it shouldn't be that big a problem to give that person their money back on those items and just use the extra stock for distribution/web sales. Hell, if for some reason it'd be cumbersome to change up the box counts, use it as tournament/league swag (oh right they're struggling to do even a low key event at one of the biggest gaming conventions in the world). And/or a tacit admission that there are more people displeased with things then they admit aloud in the semi-regular 'everything is totally fine!' style language that can show up in the weekly propaganda.

And the eternal question, the one neither he nor anyone at Palladium will answer, is 'what is the failure point'? Okay, so they're going to deliver this year, except they aren't and we know it and it's just a matter of time before they admit it. They barely completed North American delivery in 2014 when they were already punching out test sprues in April (not to mention prototypes much earlier in the year).

So if they're not even at the Pre-Production Prototype phase, let alone test sprues, and it's nearing August, 2017 is a writeoff. Full stop. Anyone who tells them that molds can be milled, test pieces made, verified, a production run completed, and shipped across the ocean, with one of the busiest shipping periods of the year happening during that vague time frame leading up to Christmas, they're either crazy or lying, or relying on some absurdly expensive manner of doing things like air-freighting everything.

I mean, I've been kinda easy on Scott, but as the weeks tick by, if he's going to fall back on the 15 years of experience his profile page on the PB site says he has, then 'adding up 2 + 2 and getting 4" shouldn't be a far stretch. There's 4 months and change left in the year, even if they go to production soon to at least beat Chinese New Year, shipping is highly unlikely to even start until the new year, especially with Gencon coming up (a good 2 week commitment in prep time and recovery from con crud) plus the cold/flu/grab bag/holiday season (another month or more down the drain) coming up.

To circle back around to the point I was making a moment ago, though, is "what if 2017 isn't in the cards? And 2018? And 2019?" Like a spokesman who is bad at their job, either they're honest with us and deliver the bad news when it needs saying and get canned for it, or they're just another worthless mouthpiece due to be replaced sometime soon when the boss isn't happy with the quantity and quality of their praise and defense.

What is the end game, the loss condition where the board wins? Because if there isn't one, and we get into our 4th calendar year without any substantial progress to show for it, they might as well just send an update saying 'we're running out the clock, death and distance cover most of you haters" and end it with a pic of Kevin flipping people the bird.

btw, would someone with Scott's email address mind PM'ing it to me? I'm sure it's easy enough to figure out, but I can't say I've been in touch with them by email enough times to just take a stab at it when clearly some of y'all have been talking to him.

Yeesh, that got a little rambly. Guess it has been a while.

Here's about the only thing I can find so far on the whole joke.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutreachHPG/comments/6p90yz/pgi_how_will_you_respond_to_harmony_golds_lawsuit/

https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9113

There seems to be discussion also on the MWO forums...

Kind of sad that business like Harmony Gold and Palladium seem only to survive on the money the make from suing people..

How to account for that in a marketing meeting??..

Morgan:

https://dockets.justia.com/docket/washington/wawdce/2:2017cv00327/242820

Full case Docket:

https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/wawd/242820/

Both of these companies just...need...to...die.

 Stormonu wrote:
Oh well, reading the info about the quotes was enlightening, but like others their past timeline just makes no sense. And though we generally despised the first manufacturer, you have to wonder what happened to them.

Normally it means that themanufacturer adopted some unreasonable condition, like asking to be paid.

 Genoside07 wrote:
https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9113

There seems to be discussion also on the MWO forums...

Kind of sad that business like Harmony Gold and Palladium seem only to survive on the money the make from suing people..

How to account for that in a marketing meeting??..

HG are apparently claiming that the Shadow Hawk is a derivative of the Spartan, the Locust is a derivative of the Officer Pod, and the Atlas is a derivative of the Armored Valk...

What the everloving feth?

Firstly, the Shadow Hawk and the Locust are both taken from manga (Dougram 1981, and Crusher Joe 1983 respectively) and the former PREDATES Macross (1982), let alone Robotech, and the latter may have had artwork in the books that started in 1977, I can't confirm the introduction of those two mecha into their respective shows, but a quick search on Youtube has the Dougram show up in the pilot. So they can feth right off on those claims, as they've never challenged that.

Secondly, arguing the Atlas is an AValk is ludicrous. The AValk is the Battletech Crusader and looks NOTHING like the Atlas. The only way they can make that claim is to claim all humanoid mecha are derivative. In which case there's several companies that should be filing suit against Harmony Gold.

I'm literally unable to clearly organize my thoughts. I just can't even... fething seriously? Guh.

One thing to note.

The party asking for jury trial is PGI. Not HG.

Trial date is set for Sep 2018. So it's still a long way off. Maybe even time for PB to fulfill Wave 2?

I am willing to put money down that this case is really about a perception that RRT sales to battletech players are not as good as they anticipated due and a glut of russian MWO miniature reproducers.

If Harmony Gold cared about people damaging the IP they have Kevin's on speed dial, RRT has done more to distance people from Robotech than anything Battletech has ever done.

HG is going to lose this, based on the FASA v Playmates Exo-Squad precedent.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.mecha/VMFiiOSDY0I

edited to provide reference point.

What was the playmate exosquad precedent?

So Harmony Gold uses the money they just got from the two new game licenses to immediately file lawsuits? Maybe they should file against Palladium for wrecking the earning potential on their Robotech license.

Sue Palladium? No money there!

And if HG sent Palladium out of business who would be left to make HG look less stupid?

evilsmurf wrote:
And if HG sent Palladium out of business who would be left to make HG look less stupid?

Kevin would still be alive, I don't think the stupidity is limited to his business, so still Kevin, but for free.

Autarch wrote:
So Harmony Gold uses the money they just got from the two new game licenses to immediately file lawsuits? Maybe they should file against Palladium for wrecking the earning potential on their Robotech license.

They're smart in at least going for a case in which they could get money from the defendant.

I hope HG has their head handed to them, like GW and Chapterhouse.

 Stormonu wrote:
I hope HG has their head handed to them, like GW and Chapterhouse.

This is what I was thinking also... I would love to hear a judge tell them, you can not copyright "giant robots with gun arms".

And you would think that the MWO companies had already talked to legal analyst to already know their boundaries.

Plus if it gets ugly, Sony might pull or at least back burner the movie idea.. They don't need any more bad press associated with them..

 Genoside07 wrote:

Plus if it gets ugly, Sony might pull or at least back burner the movie idea.. They don't need any more bad press associated with them..

Microsoft might get involved.

 Lynx7725 wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:

Plus if it gets ugly, Sony might pull or at least back burner the movie idea.. They don't need any more bad press associated with them..

Microsoft might get involved.

Does Microsoft have any stake still in Battletech? I thought Wizkids/Fanpro/Catalyst had bought back all the rights?

 Stormonu wrote:

 Lynx7725 wrote:

 Genoside07 wrote:

Plus if it gets ugly, Sony might pull or at least back burner the movie idea.. They don't need any more bad press associated with them..

Microsoft might get involved.

Does Microsoft have any stake still in Battletech? I thought Wizkids/Fanpro/Catalyst had bought back all the rights?

As far as I can tell Microsoft still owns all of the video game licensing rights.

I don't see how anyone can defend Chapterhouse. They were blatantly using GW ip. They would show "greens" that used GW models. They used GW names. They openly bragged about it, they taunted people that told them they were asking for trouble and claimed they had a legal fund.

When GW took them to court, they publicly cried for help. They scrubbed their website and begged for legal assistance.

In the end, they were found in violation and it nearly put them out of business. GW's lawyers dropped the ball and didn't collect proof before moving forward with the lawsuit, it cost them their jobs and GW a lot of money.

In the end, while GW is heavy handed and ridiculous in its pursuit of ip defense, in this case they were justified and Chapterhouse got away with a lesser punishment than they should have. They aren't the heroes you are looking for.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Not that it was a high bar to start with (I mean, I've been there for years), but the salt is flowing freely.

Just another day in the salt mine?

Better than an extra day in the barrel...

New Update

Light Zen Infantry render, from four different angles.

Something as yet unseen, so they get props for that.

Can't say I'm blown away by it, and I'm shuddering at parts count given the undercut issues on the legs.

And the phrasing makes it look like it'll be a singular sculpt.

But there's one question I have. Is this something new that's been developed, or is this a 2+ year old Ninja render that PB have been sitting on for no good reason?

 n815e wrote:
I don't see how anyone can defend Chapterhouse. They were blatantly using GW ip. They would show "greens" that used GW models. They used GW names. They openly bragged about it, they taunted people that told them they were asking for trouble and claimed they had a legal fund.

When GW took them to court, they publicly cried for help. They scrubbed their website and begged for legal assistance.

In the end, they were found in violation and it nearly put them out of business. GW's lawyers dropped the ball and didn't collect proof before moving forward with the lawsuit, it cost them their jobs and GW a lot of money.

In the end, while GW is heavy handed and ridiculous in its pursuit of ip defense, in this case they were justified and Chapterhouse got away with a lesser punishment than they should have. They aren't the heroes you are looking for.

You have an exceedingly poor grasp of what happened in the Chapterhouse case.

~Eric

Morgan Vening wrote:
New Update
Something as yet unseen, so they get props for that.

Actually someone already pointed out in the RTT comments that in 2015 (update #186) they showed different pictures of the same renders; so nothing new..

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1335688

Morgan Vening wrote:
New Update


But there's one question I have. Is this something new that's been developed, or is this a 2+ year old Ninja render that PB have been sitting on for no good reason?

It looks to be a 2 year old render form a different angle and a bit more up close.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1335688