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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Exactly it is spamming and spamming is FTW!

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Some form of redundancy doesn't automatically equate spam.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

If it’s identical it’s spam. If it’s almost the same it’s probably spam... for example this edition Russes are Russes but some have more opportunity to be snowflake.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

You call it spam, I call it one of the best baseline-troop options we have. 142pts (or 179pts to double down on a second aggressor) buys you a unit that moves fast, threatens a wide range of targets, and likes to put down roots when its done moving, ideal for obsec. They're not top tier but I think they're worth looking at in multiples.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Primark G wrote:
If it’s identical it’s spam. If it’s almost the same it’s probably spam... for example this edition Russes are Russes but some have more opportunity to be snowflake.

Heaven forbid you get off to Rule Of Three. You're all about highlander I'm betting.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






Hey folks,

I´m looking for some advice here:
I wanna build a semi competitve all Marine list, with an Blood Angels Batallion as my main CQC threat (most likely 1-2 Captains + Lemartes & DC) backed up by a Batallion of shooty Marines.
While I could also make the shooting part of my army Blood Angels I feel it is quite wasted cause they don´t have any cool benefits like for example Deatwatch.

So would DW be a good choice for a shooty Marine ally? If yes which units and tactics would be recommended?
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut





Any thoughts about black shields?
I found them usefull especially when i can hit enemy for free
   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





 Mr.T wrote:
Any thoughts about black shields?
I found them usefull especially when i can hit enemy for free


Worth it in squads with melee vets. Let's you bait people by putting your shooting out there, letting them charge and then moving your vanguard vets into combat. Plus, it's a great excuse to sneak some chaos bits onto a DW model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lash92 wrote:
Hey folks,

I´m looking for some advice here:
I wanna build a semi competitve all Marine list, with an Blood Angels Batallion as my main CQC threat (most likely 1-2 Captains + Lemartes & DC) backed up by a Batallion of shooty Marines.
While I could also make the shooting part of my army Blood Angels I feel it is quite wasted cause they don´t have any cool benefits like for example Deatwatch.

So would DW be a good choice for a shooty Marine ally? If yes which units and tactics would be recommended?


They'd be a better choice than blood angels, but I think you'd be better off doing what other BA are doing and just adding a tons of lasccanons and mortar to the cheap IG battalion you are planning on having anyway. Orders don't' cost CP and if anyone can prevent IG from ending up in Close Combat, it's blood angels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/19 15:19:41


Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 ChargerIIC wrote:
 Mr.T wrote:
Any thoughts about black shields?
I found them usefull especially when i can hit enemy for free


Worth it in squads with melee vets. Let's you bait people by putting your shooting out there, letting them charge and then moving your vanguard vets into combat. Plus, it's a great excuse to sneak some chaos bits onto a DW model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lash92 wrote:
Hey folks,

I´m looking for some advice here:
I wanna build a semi competitve all Marine list, with an Blood Angels Batallion as my main CQC threat (most likely 1-2 Captains + Lemartes & DC) backed up by a Batallion of shooty Marines.
While I could also make the shooting part of my army Blood Angels I feel it is quite wasted cause they don´t have any cool benefits like for example Deatwatch.

So would DW be a good choice for a shooty Marine ally? If yes which units and tactics would be recommended?


They'd be a better choice than blood angels, but I think you'd be better off doing what other BA are doing and just adding a tons of lasccanons and mortar to the cheap IG battalion you are planning on having anyway. Orders don't' cost CP and if anyone can prevent IG from ending up in Close Combat, it's blood angels.



The Chaos bits part is the best benefit lol
   
Made in us
Stubborn Prosecutor





Lemondish wrote:
Spoiler:
 ChargerIIC wrote:
 Mr.T wrote:
Any thoughts about black shields?
I found them usefull especially when i can hit enemy for free


Worth it in squads with melee vets. Let's you bait people by putting your shooting out there, letting them charge and then moving your vanguard vets into combat. Plus, it's a great excuse to sneak some chaos bits onto a DW model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lash92 wrote:
Hey folks,

I´m looking for some advice here:
I wanna build a semi competitve all Marine list, with an Blood Angels Batallion as my main CQC threat (most likely 1-2 Captains + Lemartes & DC) backed up by a Batallion of shooty Marines.
While I could also make the shooting part of my army Blood Angels I feel it is quite wasted cause they don´t have any cool benefits like for example Deatwatch.

So would DW be a good choice for a shooty Marine ally? If yes which units and tactics would be recommended?


They'd be a better choice than blood angels, but I think you'd be better off doing what other BA are doing and just adding a tons of lasccanons and mortar to the cheap IG battalion you are planning on having anyway. Orders don't' cost CP and if anyone can prevent IG from ending up in Close Combat, it's blood angels.



The Chaos bits part is the best benefit lol


"Is that a Rubicon helmet?"

"Blackshield"

"I'm pretty certain that marine has two heads..."

"Blackshield"

"Is that a Hellbrute?"

"Blackshield Dreadnought"

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


https://www.victorwardbooks.com/ Home of Dark Days series 
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






 ChargerIIC wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lash92 wrote:
Hey folks,

I´m looking for some advice here:
I wanna build a semi competitve all Marine list, with an Blood Angels Batallion as my main CQC threat (most likely 1-2 Captains + Lemartes & DC) backed up by a Batallion of shooty Marines.
While I could also make the shooting part of my army Blood Angels I feel it is quite wasted cause they don´t have any cool benefits like for example Deatwatch.

So would DW be a good choice for a shooty Marine ally? If yes which units and tactics would be recommended?


They'd be a better choice than blood angels, but I think you'd be better off doing what other BA are doing and just adding a tons of lasccanons and mortar to the cheap IG battalion you are planning on having anyway. Orders don't' cost CP and if anyone can prevent IG from ending up in Close Combat, it's blood angels.



Thanks for your feedback. I´m aware that IG would be an superior feedback. But like I said I wanna build an semi-comp ALL marine list. So maybe some thoughts with this restriction in mind?
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Okay, if you want to sub in DW for shooting, I'd recommend two units in particular: the Assault Intercessors with an Aggressor (142pts) for hustling and starting on the board, and a SB Vet team with a smattering of SSs to deepstrike and dakka. 9 or 10SBs with a Watchmaster can absoltuely shred so many targets, it's pretty brutal against many lists: chaos, tau and nids all hat them as hellfire works on everything but vehicles, and those armies' heavies tend to not have that keyword.

Don't turn to DW for heavy AT fire support - BA are a good deal better. The only exception would be to take a lone FW AT unit, to take advantage of the good WM rerolls and the +1 to wound strat - a Xiphon or Leviathan or Deredeo spring to mind...

The big advantage of your plan is that it allows you to easily take two batallions to unlock 13cp, very handy for your smashcaps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this would be around 1k points. You could drop out a squad of intercessors if you didn't need board control, in favour of another unit, but I like em. You'd have to run a heavy of some sort on the BA side to match the Lev:

Librarian: Force axe, Storm Bolter (giving you access to Null zone and the rest)

Watch Master

2x Intercessors
. Aggressor, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets
. Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol x4
. Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

Veterans
. Vanguard Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield x3
. Veteran: Chainsword, Storm Bolter x5
. Watch Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm Bolter

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought: 2x Heavy flamer, 3x Hunter-killer missile, Storm cannon array, Storm cannon array

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/07/20 11:34:26


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





What we saying for anti tank of we don't want to guard or blood angels??

Corvus looks quite tasty with Lascannon and missiles carrying some vets with meltas who can jump out and suicide pop a tank. If only Reivers had access to something more than a pistol I'd take them with meltas or power fist etc.

Bikers could be a way of getting the meltas in range ??
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I don't think our Bikers still have Special Weapons.

What you REALLY want are options from FW. We get access to tanks because of them, so we don't need no Preds. Your options include FW Dreads, Lascannon Tarantula Turrets (not a great choice though) and Sicarans.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Man, what I wouldn't do for PotMS on our Corvi. It would transform that unit and give us a solid AT option in the codex, without dipping into forgeworld. As it is now, I take it all dakka with auspex, to try and counter the 4+ to hit. If the model was more mundane, it would never see table time tbh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/22 17:23:54


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I'm tempted by a detachment of vanilla marines with preds, I'd love a storm raven but don't think I can wrangle that!
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we saying for anti tank of we don't want to guard or blood angels??

Corvus looks quite tasty with Lascannon and missiles carrying some vets with meltas who can jump out and suicide pop a tank. If only Reivers had access to something more than a pistol I'd take them with meltas or power fist etc.

Bikers could be a way of getting the meltas in range ??


Then you dont' get any anti-tank?

Maybe ven dreads with lascannons. Try that.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 grouchoben wrote:
Man, what I wouldn't do for PotMS on our Corvi. It would transform that unit and give us a solid AT option in the codex, without dipping into forgeworld. As it is now, I take it all dakka with auspex, to try and counter the 4+ to hit. If the model was more mundane, it would never see table time tbh.


Needs more than PotMS. It's like baseline 40 points cheaper than a Stormraven, a unit with a ton of offensive options and can carry a freaking Dreadnought. PotMS is the first stop.

What it really needs to fit the special ops role of the Deathwatch is the Valk grav chute insertion rule.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




And the Stormraven still sucks.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

Martel732 wrote:
And the Stormraven still sucks.


I mean, it's a transport right, so part of its value is dependent on what it can transport. Marine infantry sucks, so the Stormraven being able to transport them isn't as valuable.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 grouchoben wrote:
Okay, if you want to sub in DW for shooting, I'd recommend two units in particular: the Assault Intercessors with an Aggressor (142pts) for hustling and starting on the board,


I'm. kind of curious, why no power sword for the Sergeant? To me one of the strengths of the squad is that it can fight competently at both range and in melee for the price.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

novembermike wrote:
 grouchoben wrote:
Okay, if you want to sub in DW for shooting, I'd recommend two units in particular: the Assault Intercessors with an Aggressor (142pts) for hustling and starting on the board,


I'm. kind of curious, why no power sword for the Sergeant? To me one of the strengths of the squad is that it can fight competently at both range and in melee for the price.


An extra attack granted by the chainsword is a sufficient melee choice here.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Lemondish wrote:
novembermike wrote:
 grouchoben wrote:
Okay, if you want to sub in DW for shooting, I'd recommend two units in particular: the Assault Intercessors with an Aggressor (142pts) for hustling and starting on the board,


I'm. kind of curious, why no power sword for the Sergeant? To me one of the strengths of the squad is that it can fight competently at both range and in melee for the price.


An extra attack granted by the chainsword is a sufficient melee choice here.


For people that like math:
Against T3 5+ save enemies, the chainsword is 88% as effective as the power sword.
Against marines, 53%.

Note this is for a base 3 attack model. For a normal SM sarg with 2 attacks, the chainsword actually kills just as many guardsmen as the power-sword does. Against marines the chainsword is 60% as good as a power sword if you only have 2 attacks.

This is why you never really see power weapons on non-special characters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/23 03:35:26


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I'm assuming you mean T3 5+? And how did you get 66% against marines? Shouldn't it be (4 * 1/3) / 3 (roughly 44%)?

Obviously for 1-2 attack models the chainsword is much better but I've always considered 3 attacks to be the breakpoint in favor of power swords
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Rogerio134134 wrote:
What we saying for anti tank of we don't want to guard or blood angels??

Corvus looks quite tasty with Lascannon and missiles carrying some vets with meltas who can jump out and suicide pop a tank. If only Reivers had access to something more than a pistol I'd take them with meltas or power fist etc.

Bikers could be a way of getting the meltas in range ??


I think you're best off going FW for Leviathans, (Contemptor) Mortises, Sicarans, Deredeos, etc. Corvus is reasonable but really suffers from not having PotMS.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




novembermike wrote:
I'm assuming you mean T3 5+? And how did you get 66% against marines? Shouldn't it be (4 * 1/3) / 3 (roughly 44%)?

Obviously for 1-2 attack models the chainsword is much better but I've always considered 3 attacks to be the breakpoint in favor of power swords


Yes i derped on the numbers there a bit lol. I fixed it now.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





What about imperial Knights as antitank? Armigars or even a knight
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




ballzonya wrote:
What about imperial Knights as antitank? Armigars or even a knight


I think that's really tricky to do well. DW like spending CP, Knights like spending CP, you're going to run out of CP very quickly.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





How about terminators? Watched a battle report from striking scorpion 82 where his termies deep strike with a chaplain and attack 3 predators and just absolutely wipe them out.

Thinking 5 termies with some thunder hammer storm shield and a couple normal power fist storm bolter dudes to smash into armour or whatever via deep strike. Either that or thinking of using a corvus to dump them in amongst the enemy, seems a waste though as they have the ability to teleport in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/23 10:21:32


 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




Rogerio134134 wrote:
How about terminators? Watched a battle report from striking scorpion 82 where his termies deep strike with a chaplain and attack 3 predators and just absolutely wipe them out.

Thinking 5 termies with some thunder hammer storm shield and a couple normal power fist storm bolter dudes to smash into armour or whatever via deep strike. Either that or thinking of using a corvus to dump them in amongst the enemy, seems a waste though as they have the ability to teleport in.


More often than not the story is like this:

5 TH/SS Termiantors deep strike in, try to charge but failed that 9" roll. Standing there doing nothing, then 2 Daemon Princes turned their attentions to them. Two smites, 6 Mortal Wounds on them so it is 3 guys dead. Then tge 2 Daemon Princes launched their charge and swings first. After 14 S7 2D attacks hitting on rerollable 2s. your rest 2 Terminators are wiped.
   
 
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