New Craftworlds Codex, Made to Order week etc UPDATED [Pre-order/Made to Order Oct 21st]

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**Marfuzzo**

still random shots, and still d3 damage....but the prism fire twice and the starcannon only cost 15

**Mandragola**

DivineVisitor wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Marfuzzo wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Wraithknights that can move twice will also radically change things. They'll go from far away where the enemy has -1 to hit to stomping on your face in the blink of an eye.

quicken is infantry/bikers only...

It is, but I understand that there's also a stratagem which does something similar. A unit can move after shooting, including to charge - according to the guy with the review video (who gets things wrong from time to time).

The stratagem might have a similar restriction on it, or the guy who read it in the video may have got it wrong, in which case ignore me. Use deep striking wraithblades instead.

Even so, options like deep striking howling banshees look like they will be highly effective. That extra 3" of charge range, along with immunity to oerwatch, makes the chances of them getting in far better. And units like vypers, with their move of 20 (if in squadrons) will be excellent for locking tanks in combat, regardless of any psychic powers or stratagems.

Can't charge after move shoot move stratagem.

Cool. Well that's probably a good thing then.

Looks like Vypers can be quickened then, as they are now bikers. Comedy 40" moves become possible, if not necessarily all that useful! If a decent-sized jetbike conclave is reasonably-priced, that might be the way to go.

**Kdash**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Are Fire Prisms still random shots, or did they make the 3 shots a fixed amount?

Still random shots.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crusaderobr wrote:
Are starcannons still d3 damage? or a flat 2?

Dunno, not seen the weapon pages that well - but they did get a big points drop.

**admironheart**

I like the option of using my Wave Serpents to use fade and fire to become blocking los for my units such as dark reapers.

move and fire with reapers, fade and fire the WS then move to cover the reapers from return fire.

With a fully kitted WS with spirit stones. would Alaitoc be the best detatchment to bring the WS in?

**Garion**

The amazing thing is that we have now almost reached the point cost of the 7th edition codex, with many models within 10/20 points of their 7th edition level and some even under that! (almost all the aspects for example)

**Uriels_Flame**

Scorpions down to ? 14pts ea?

**Mantle**

Kdash wrote:
Uriels_Flame wrote:
Are Fire Prisms still random shots, or did they make the 3 shots a fixed amount?

Still random shots.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crusaderobr wrote:
Are starcannons still d3 damage? or a flat 2?

Dunno, not seen the weapon pages that well - but they did get a big points drop.

From the table top tactics battle report star cannons are still D3 damage.

**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

I wish someone would give the power level cost of the units, or not cover the with their hand unwittingly. My group uses power level and I want to know if the change to gear dropped the P.L. of my wraithknight. I think scorpions dropped by one, but I haven't been able to check anything else...

**Cream Tea**

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I wish someone would give the power level cost of the units, or not cover the with their hand unwittingly. My group uses power level and I want to know if the change to gear dropped the P.L. of my wraithknight. I think scorpions dropped by one, but I haven't been able to check anything else...

Most people don't care about PL. I'd like to know as well, as me and my friends sometimes play PL games, but the codex drops soon anyway. I can wait.

**clodax66**

They dropped Autarch weapon options in the codex because they are not selling models with those weapons. Currently, there is only two Autarch you can one on the bike and one with scorpion madiblasters with wings. The One for made to order cums with banshee mask and option for reaper launcher. I have a feeling that those options will be included with the miniature when you get it just like they said bone singer rules will come with the miniature.

**tneva82**

clodax66 wrote:
They dropped Autarch weapon options in the codex because they are not selling models with those weapons. Currently, there is only two Autarch you can one on the bike and one with scorpion madiblasters with wings. The One for made to order cums with banshee mask and option for reaper launcher. I have a feeling that those options will be included with the miniature when you get it just like they said bone singer rules will come with the miniature.

Yes all know WHY they are dropped. Doesn't make that good or player friendly option though.

**JohnHwangDD**

If only we had the ability to make hyper-efficient Exarchs, erm, Autarchs like in 2E. That's fun!

**H.B.M.C.**

tneva82 wrote:
Yes all know WHY they are dropped. Doesn't make that good or player friendly option though.

Tell that to all the T4 Death Guard Lords, Sorcerers and Possessed Squads.

**Garion**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Scorpions down to ? 14pts ea?

Yup

clodax66 wrote:
They dropped Autarch weapon options in the codex because they are not selling models with those weapons. Currently, there is only two Autarch you can one on the bike and one with scorpion madiblasters with wings. The One for made to order cums with banshee mask and option for reaper launcher. I have a feeling that those options will be included with the miniature when you get it just like they said bone singer rules will come with the miniature.

They already gave us a way out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

The only problem is the Autarch with a warp jump generator bacause I think the generator is not listed as a wargear in the index/new codex

**tneva82**

Garion wrote:

They already gave us a way out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Of course that works only when datasheet has vanished from codex. If datasheet exists in codex but say misses options then that's the new up to date datasheet you are supposed to use. No option in datasheet=tough luck. Datasheet in older publication has been replaced by new one.

The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.

**Bobug**

tneva82 wrote:
Garion wrote:

They already gave us a way out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Of course that works only when datasheet has vanished from codex. If datasheet exists in codex but say misses options then that's the new up to date datasheet you are supposed to use. No option in datasheet=tough luck. Datasheet in older publication has been replaced by new one.

The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.

Not true. Dreadnought weapons are the prime example of how this works.

**tneva82**

Bobug wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Garion wrote:

They already gave us a way out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Of course that works only when datasheet has vanished from codex. If datasheet exists in codex but say misses options then that's the new up to date datasheet you are supposed to use. No option in datasheet=tough luck. Datasheet in older publication has been replaced by new one.

The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.

Not true. Dreadnought weapons are the prime example of how this works.

I'm quoting GW. That's quote from page linked above.

You have datasheet A. Datasheet gets replaced by newer version. The older version no longer exists.

If you have datasheet B meanwhile that got removed from codex(say autatch with warp jump generator or rough rider) THAT is usable.

This is what GW said. You arquing with GW?

**Redemption**

No, because the exact article you linked actually says you can use the old datasheet from the index if it has wargear options that have been removed:

There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons.

**Dionysodorus**

Suffice to say that this index vs codex thing is confusing and it would be really nice if they would give us something more than a hard-to-find blog post on their community site with some clearer language or examples.

**Kdash**

Once the codex is released we can just raise it on their facebook page for FAQ. A simple question of “Can my Autarch still use a banshee mask and weapon options listed in the index? If yes, which rule does it use for the mask?”

They tend to answer pretty quickly, and if they don’t have the answer it gets added to the FAQ. I asked some Guard questions 3 days before the FAQ and they were included in it.

We can always make a quick list here and I can post them all up this weekend. (Better to wait for the actual codex to ensure we have all the information)

**tneva82**

Redemption wrote:
No, because the exact article you linked actually says you can use the old datasheet from the index if it has wargear options that have been removed:

There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons.

Yes yes good selective quote. Said page also says newer datasheet overwrites old one. Old one no longer exists. Your quote matters only when datasheet DISAPEARS like it did with warp spider jump generator autarch and rough riders.

Old datasheet does not exists once new comes. Otherwise you could nitpick datasheet you want. Old commisar? Sure go ahead. FAQ only deals with the codex entry so if you can use datasheet that's been updated legal play to take old style commisar from index.

**Matt.Kingsley**

tneva82 wrote:
Garion wrote:

They already gave us a way out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Of course that works only when datasheet has vanished from codex. If datasheet exists in codex but say misses options then that's the new up to date datasheet you are supposed to use. No option in datasheet=tough luck. Datasheet in older publication has been replaced by new one.

The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version.

Codexes: Your Questions Answered wrote:There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).

This is one of the points that GW contradicts themselves on, but they do say you can use the old datasheet to use the old wargear options even if a more up-to-date datasheet exists, as long as the new datasheet lacks one of the options your taking.
If you think otherwise, why would they reference dreadnought weapons?

**Wonderwolf**

Yeah. And it will be even stranger with the Craftworld Autarch. E.g. will an Autarch with a Banshee mask use the banshee mask rules used on the index data sheet or the "updated" Banshee mask of the codex (which is not available to the Autarch in the Codex)?

**TheWaspinator**

It's less a contradiction and more a general rule with an exemption. You use the latest sheet unless you're using a model with wargear options not on the new one, then you get to use the old one with new points.

There being some subsequent unclear questions about what that means for certain Eldar abilities doesn't change the fact that GW has given us approval to do this.

**Redemption**

tneva82 wrote:Yes yes good selective quote. Said page also says newer datasheet overwrites old one. Old one no longer exists. Your quote matters only when datasheet DISAPEARS like it did with warp spider jump generator autarch and rough riders.

Old datasheet does not exists once new comes. Otherwise you could nitpick datasheet you want. Old commisar? Sure go ahead. FAQ only deals with the codex entry so if you can use datasheet that's been updated legal play to take old style commisar from index.

This:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:If you think otherwise, why would they reference dreadnought weapons?

Dreadnoughts exist in both the index and the codex, but options like the twin autocannon have been removed.

Of course in case of the Autarch, you'd also have to use the old Path of Command and Banshee Mask rules from the index.

**Wonderwolf**

Redemption wrote:

Of course in case of the Autarch, you'd also have to use the old Path of Command and Banshee Mask rules from the index.

Not so sure. Path of Command throws you another complication. In the Codex, it's not a rule on the Autarch data sheet. It's a general army rule along with Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, etc.. that simply kicks in if an Autarch .. any Autarch, is your Warlord.

In the index, it's on the Autarch data sheet.

So ...... does the old data sheet overwrite the generic army rule from the codex? Or does the generic rule from the Codex overwrite the old index data sheet?

**Redemption**

I'm guessing that since the general army rules don't do anything by themselves - the datasheets just reference the general army rules to save space of a rule that's repeated often - and the old datasheet doesn't reference it but just has it in the sheet, it still uses the old one.

But something FAQ-worthy at least.

**tneva82**

Redemption wrote:
tneva82 wrote:Yes yes good selective quote. Said page also says newer datasheet overwrites old one. Old one no longer exists. Your quote matters only when datasheet DISAPEARS like it did with warp spider jump generator autarch and rough riders.

Old datasheet does not exists once new comes. Otherwise you could nitpick datasheet you want. Old commisar? Sure go ahead. FAQ only deals with the codex entry so if you can use datasheet that's been updated legal play to take old style commisar from index.
This:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:If you think otherwise, why would they reference dreadnought weapons?

Dreadnoughts exist in both the index and the codex, but options like the twin autocannon have been removed.

Of course in case of the Autarch, you'd also have to use the old Path of Command and Banshee Mask rules from the index.

Did they quarantee you can use them on matched play?

GW has been clear on new datasheet replacing old one. If you can use old and new datasheets along then I'll take index commisars with 1 guy autopassing morale check then. Nothing like good old cherry picking.

**Matt.Kingsley**

tneva82 wrote:
Redemption wrote:
tneva82 wrote:Yes yes good selective quote. Said page also says newer datasheet overwrites old one. Old one no longer exists. Your quote matters only when datasheet DISAPEARS like it did with warp spider jump generator autarch and rough riders.

Old datasheet does not exists once new comes. Otherwise you could nitpick datasheet you want. Old commisar? Sure go ahead. FAQ only deals with the codex entry so if you can use datasheet that's been updated legal play to take old style commisar from index.
This:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:If you think otherwise, why would they reference dreadnought weapons?

Dreadnoughts exist in both the index and the codex, but options like the twin autocannon have been removed.

Of course in case of the Autarch, you'd also have to use the old Path of Command and Banshee Mask rules from the index.

Did they quarantee you can use them on matched play?

GW has been clear on new datasheet replacing old one. If you can use old and new datasheets along then I'll take index commisars with 1 guy autopassing morale check then. Nothing like good old cherry picking.

Oh, did Commissars lose any wargear options? No?
Well then you can't.

**xttz**

Can I choose to use the rules and/or points for units from my index instead of the new ones in the codex once released?
In your own games, if you and your opponent agree, you can, of course, play with whatever rules you like.

In all future publications and official events though, it will be assumed that you’re using the most recent rules and Datasheets. It will also be assumed that you’re using the most up to date points for matched play, in this case, those included in the codex.

Another standard "talk to your opponent" GW ruling, folks.