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Mr. Funktastic wrote:
How are people's Wardens performing so far?

Amazing. It's my favorite Knight variant. Period. It can punch and shoot. It performs splendidly every game. Thanks to ion bulwark + rotate ion shield it is also durable enough

Thats not really an argument for the warden I could say my crusader is brilliant Thanks to ion bulwark + rotate ion shield.

U02dah4 wrote:
Thats not really an argument for the warden I could say my crusader is brilliant Thanks to ion bulwark + rotate ion shield.

Avenger Gatling is amazing and access to Deathgrip is better for a shooting army like Guard then another set of battlecannons.

See thats an argument for a warden

So got back from ATC a bit ago, thought I'd share my Knight players experience with you.

Last year he took the Best Knight player at ATC, winning all 6 games, and placing 15th overall individually.

This year, he didn't repeat the achievement, mostly because of some nomenclature confusion, and agreeing to fight a list with 3 Castellans, when he thought they were Valiants. I'm sure you guys can see the problem with that call. Despite that though, he won his other 5 games, tabling his opponent each time.

His list is as follows.

Knight Crusader with RFBC and Icarus
Knight Crusader with RFBC and Icarus
Knight Crusader with RFBC and Icarus
IG Company Commander
IG Company Commander
IG Squad x10
IG Squad x10
IG Squad x10
Mortar Platoon
Mortar Platoon
Mortar Platoon

He took the Gatling cannon relic as his free relic, and always paid for the Aquila with the IG, and would mix and match others dependent on the game.

Rolled House Griffith. Only Knight player of the 40 or so guys who had Knights there who did so.

U02dah4 wrote:
Thats not really an argument for the warden I could say my crusader is brilliant Thanks to ion bulwark + rotate ion shield.

He asked how peoples wardens are doing. I responded to the question. He didn't say "make a case for me to use a Warden"

@djones520 that is a very anti horde list,. Do you know what house he was playing?

 Drider wrote:
@djones520 that is a very anti horde list,. Do you know what house he was playing?

Griffith, by the look of the last line in his post.

Yeah Griffith, and yes it worked very well on anti-horde. For example, his last game was 240 cultists anchored by Abaddon and 3 daemon princes.

Tabled the guy in 4 turns.

Do anyone know a good RESIN MOLD bits third party seller for knights ?

Unless shopping for very specific, small, ultra intricate and detailed parts, shapeways is just too expensive.
I mean I paid a lot for my TAU on Shapeways but the price was always justified.... however no way im paying more than 200€ per knight ON TOP of the knight kit price to get custodes style addons that are flat and with little to no detail but very expensive because of 3d printing...

Looking for any addons but especially looking for some banners/flag to put on top of the carapace.
"TaroModelmaker" on etsy is not bad but i'm still looking for more options.

 djones520 wrote:
Yeah Griffith, and yes it worked very well on anti-horde. For example, his last game was 240 cultists anchored by Abaddon and 3 daemon princes.

Tabled the guy in 4 turns.

This is a good point for Griffith. Realistically, I think Krast might have given him more attacks overall, but all the houses have merit.

It seems to me that beating hordes is the main challenge to knights. I’m not surprised to see that the best approach is therefore to maximise the dakka that you can send out. Those avengers and battlecannons are still great against vehicles – especially the lighter ones with invulnerable saves that Eldar tend to bring along. I imagine that all of those mortars helped too. If anything, this list was over-specced towards anti-horde – which is something you can do in a team tournament rather than when designing a TAC list.

The obvious downside is when you run up against other knights that are specced to kill you. I’m not too surprised to hear the result from meeting three Castellans – though I’m a bit surprised that someone brought them!

The difference between 1750 and 2k seems big for knights somehow. I’m not really sure why it feels like a bigger gap than for others. I think at 1750 it’s hard to design a TAC list with a dominus knight in it, but at 2k it’s perfectly possible.

Mandragola wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Yeah Griffith, and yes it worked very well on anti-horde. For example, his last game was 240 cultists anchored by Abaddon and 3 daemon princes.

Tabled the guy in 4 turns.

This is a good point for Griffith. Realistically, I think Krast might have given him more attacks overall, but all the houses have merit.

It seems to me that beating hordes is the main challenge to knights. I’m not surprised to see that the best approach is therefore to maximise the dakka that you can send out. Those avengers and battlecannons are still great against vehicles – especially the lighter ones with invulnerable saves that Eldar tend to bring along. I imagine that all of those mortars helped too. If anything, this list was over-specced towards anti-horde – which is something you can do in a team tournament rather than when designing a TAC list.

The obvious downside is when you run up against other knights that are specced to kill you. I’m not too surprised to hear the result from meeting three Castellans – though I’m a bit surprised that someone brought them!

The difference between 1750 and 2k seems big for knights somehow. I’m not really sure why it feels like a bigger gap than for others. I think at 1750 it’s hard to design a TAC list with a dominus knight in it, but at 2k it’s perfectly possible.

a 250 point gap doesn't give you an extra Knight, it only lets you upgrade a (or multiple) knights into slightly more expensive ones.
Unlike other armies that get a unit or 2 extra.

I would like to point out he faced very few horde armies. Obviously the one that I talked about, and the Knight army as well, but he also curb stomped a Custodian Bike army, a Necron army, and a 1K sons Smite spam army as well.

We didn't steer him towards the hordes because we had other anti-horde lists. He was more TAC then anything else.

Mandragola wrote:

The obvious downside is when you run up against other knights that are specced to kill you. I’m not too surprised to hear the result from meeting three Castellans – though I’m a bit surprised that someone brought them!

Even against other Knights it is not bad at all. AP-2 is the sweet spot against models that have a 5++. RFBC has better damage output than a thermal cannon against models with an Invulnerable save and longer range too.

Admittedly trying to outshoot Castellans is not going to end well. You get RIS against the first Volcano Lance and then the other 2 target a different Knight. I can't imagine the Castellans doing well aginst an Abby Cultist blob though.

Yeah understood. I think my point is that to make a TAC knight army you need to make it as anti-horde as possible - because hordes are the biggest problem for knights.

After all, the avenger is the best anti-horde gun we have, but it's really a TAC gun - not a dedicated horde-killer like a punisher or hurricane bolter. It hits at S6, ap-2,.2 damage. It's a gun that you can very happily fire at Primaris marines and Custodians. Against a horde it's not really all that many shots.

If you go with more anti-tank stuff, as I did at the GT heat, you totally wreck vehicle-based opponents but struggle against people who bring numbers. And that ends up with games that aren't actually very much fun, because both players can see who's won and lost from the get go.

Agreed. That is my one problem with the Knight codex. It takes 40K's existing tendency to turn into rock-paper-scissors and dials it up to 11. An awful lot of matches will be big wins or big losses which are rarely satisfying.

 Karhedron wrote:
Agreed. That is my one problem with the Knight codex. It takes 40K's existing tendency to turn into rock-paper-scissors and dials it up to 11. An awful lot of matches will be big wins or big losses which are rarely satisfying.

yeah saw that hard with a friend of mine who started knights just before the codex, after the codex hit he went undefeated for quite some time until he faced a drukhari army with 9 talos with haywire and scourges with haywire

 Alexonian wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
Agreed. That is my one problem with the Knight codex. It takes 40K's existing tendency to turn into rock-paper-scissors and dials it up to 11. An awful lot of matches will be big wins or big losses which are rarely satisfying.

yeah saw that hard with a friend of mine who started knights just before the codex, after the codex hit he went undefeated for quite some time until he faced a drukhari army with 9 talos with haywire and scourges with haywire

So handling eldar stuff is why I am so all in on QUESTOR MECHANICUS. I am interested on everyone's take on this list. I am leaning towards running this at the BAO and I have a weekend RTT to try it this weekend.

MORDIAN battalion - Commander, PrimPsyk, 3x10 guards with bolter and plasma rifle
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slam captain, 3x5 scouts with storm bolter
RAVEN knights detachment - 1x Castellan, 2x Gallant

The RAVEN gallants are kind of off. RAVEN does not help gallants that much. The big alternative based on the models i have would be to run a CADIA brigade in place of the gallants to ensure I have enough CP to feed the castellan and the smash captains. Something like:

CADIA brigade - 3x commanders, 3x astropaths, 6x9 mortar guards, 3x hellhounds, 1x basilisk, 2x mortar teams
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slam captain, 3x5 scouts with storm bolter, +1 hvBolter
RAVEN knights detachment - 1x Castellan

I think the Brigade list is stronger, but it plays much slower. What do you guys think? This is for super competitive ITC-BAO.

 djones520 wrote:
So got back from ATC a bit ago, thought I'd share my Knight players experience with you.

Last year he took the Best Knight player at ATC, winning all 6 games, and placing 15th overall individually.

This year, he didn't repeat the achievement, mostly because of some nomenclature confusion, and agreeing to fight a list with 3 Castellans, when he thought they were Valiants. I'm sure you guys can see the problem with that call. Despite that though, he won his other 5 games, tabling his opponent each time.

His list is as follows.

Knight Crusader with RFBC and Icarus
Knight Crusader with RFBC and Icarus
Knight Crusader with RFBC and Icarus
IG Company Commander
IG Company Commander
IG Squad x10
IG Squad x10
IG Squad x10
Mortar Platoon
Mortar Platoon
Mortar Platoon

He took the Gatling cannon relic as his free relic, and always paid for the Aquila with the IG, and would mix and match others dependent on the game.

Rolled House Griffith. Only Knight player of the 40 or so guys who had Knights there who did so.

I like the list, Crusaders are very brutal. A few questions for you. So he only ever took the cp relic for IG? Never the warlord so he could have the full cp battery combo? I assume the mortar platoons are mortar squad x3 with 3 mortars each?

More and more I look at it, it feels like poor gallants aren't just going to cut it. Castellan is the most useful knight by far, and crusaders and wardens shoot a fair deal. Gallants are way cheaper, but they can be completely blocked by cheap infantry, to do any damage they need to walk closer to be in range of smite and other psychic powers, they are useless against fliers, and they are surprisingly easy to kill in melee since it takes so many hoops to get them anything better than their marine save in melee. A single blood angel captain can almost completely wreck them in one round of fighting.

Postulent wrote:
More and more I look at it, it feels like poor gallants aren't just going to cut it. Castellan is the most useful knight by far, and crusaders and wardens shoot a fair deal. Gallants are way cheaper, but they can be completely blocked by cheap infantry, to do any damage they need to walk closer to be in range of smite and other psychic powers, they are useless against fliers, and they are surprisingly easy to kill in melee since it takes so many hoops to get them anything better than their marine save in melee. A single blood angel captain can almost completely wreck them in one round of fighting.

Exactly. Gallants are too easy to block and too easy to kill. They are cool, but a trap unit. It's a trap I've fallen into myself, taking one to a tournament, and I really regretted it.

Wulfey wrote:

 Alexonian wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
Agreed. That is my one problem with the Knight codex. It takes 40K's existing tendency to turn into rock-paper-scissors and dials it up to 11. An awful lot of matches will be big wins or big losses which are rarely satisfying.

yeah saw that hard with a friend of mine who started knights just before the codex, after the codex hit he went undefeated for quite some time until he faced a drukhari army with 9 talos with haywire and scourges with haywire

So handling eldar stuff is why I am so all in on QUESTOR MECHANICUS. I am interested on everyone's take on this list. I am leaning towards running this at the BAO and I have a weekend RTT to try it this weekend.

MORDIAN battalion - Commander, PrimPsyk, 3x10 guards with bolter and plasma rifle
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slam captain, 3x5 scouts with storm bolter
RAVEN knights detachment - 1x Castellan, 2x Gallant

The RAVEN gallants are kind of off. RAVEN does not help gallants that much. The big alternative based on the models i have would be to run a CADIA brigade in place of the gallants to ensure I have enough CP to feed the castellan and the smash captains. Something like:

CADIA brigade - 3x commanders, 3x astropaths, 6x9 mortar guards, 3x hellhounds, 1x basilisk, 2x mortar teams
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slam captain, 3x5 scouts with storm bolter, +1 hvBolter
RAVEN knights detachment - 1x Castellan

I think the Brigade list is stronger, but it plays much slower. What do you guys think? This is for super competitive ITC-BAO.

In this list I think you've got the balance wrong. Too many CPs powering not enough stuff. And Gallants eat CPs too.

I suggest dropping the guard. Upgrade your gallants to a Warden and Crusader, and get another knight of some kind. As Raven, you can still full tilt a Warden at people when that's the correct option, but you aren't locked into doing it.

I think every knight being able to fall back and then shoot and charge again is terrific and gives them all the ability to handle hordes to some extent, the key being to not let them get surrounded. The foot attacks are pretty good against most infantry., and even bikers and cavalry types.

I think the Gallant can take a carapace weapon right? That and a meltagun, at least something to lob at enemies on the way in.

From the sound of things maybe I should get some Castellan arms to magnetize for my Valiant.

How useful/essential is a psiker in the cp battery bataillon, attached to the knights?
It would seem very as mw hurts knights badly, but not seeing many list with it.
I'm building 2 lists and wondering if I should replace them.
1) lancer, crusader, warden, canis rex, house morten. IG bataillon of 3 squads, 1 commander, 1 psiker.
2)atropos, crusader, warden, deathwatch bataillon. 1 captain, 1 spyker, 3 vet squad (2 with stalker, 1 with an, all 3 with 1 stormshield).
So keep the psiker or upgrade the squads?

In both lists you wouldn't gain significantly from droping the psycher as you would need anothe HQ choice anyway.
I would keep some way of denying the nasty buffs or MW spam.

Wulfey wrote:

 Alexonian wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
Agreed. That is my one problem with the Knight codex. It takes 40K's existing tendency to turn into rock-paper-scissors and dials it up to 11. An awful lot of matches will be big wins or big losses which are rarely satisfying.

yeah saw that hard with a friend of mine who started knights just before the codex, after the codex hit he went undefeated for quite some time until he faced a drukhari army with 9 talos with haywire and scourges with haywire

So handling eldar stuff is why I am so all in on QUESTOR MECHANICUS. I am interested on everyone's take on this list. I am leaning towards running this at the BAO and I have a weekend RTT to try it this weekend.

MORDIAN battalion - Commander, PrimPsyk, 3x10 guards with bolter and plasma rifle
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slam captain, 3x5 scouts with storm bolter
RAVEN knights detachment - 1x Castellan, 2x Gallant

The RAVEN gallants are kind of off. RAVEN does not help gallants that much. The big alternative based on the models i have would be to run a CADIA brigade in place of the gallants to ensure I have enough CP to feed the castellan and the smash captains. Something like:

CADIA brigade - 3x commanders, 3x astropaths, 6x9 mortar guards, 3x hellhounds, 1x basilisk, 2x mortar teams
BLANGELS battalion - 2x slam captain, 3x5 scouts with storm bolter, +1 hvBolter
RAVEN knights detachment - 1x Castellan

I think the Brigade list is stronger, but it plays much slower. What do you guys think? This is for super competitive ITC-BAO.

I think that second list suffer heavily against things like Custodes bikers. It looks like it lacks actual punch. A Castellan and 2 captains on their own are not enough.
Esp since the captains heavily suffer from diminished returns on stratagems.

Yeah, I am not liking all these guard brigades. Too many models. And the blood angels want so many CP. Games might not finish. Maybe something like this instead? I need just enough icarus shots to kill a flyer. And I have enough CP to play around with various WLT / Relic combos based on opponent. I am expecting YNAARI soup and guard megablob body counts. I have one castellan and 3x questoris classes on my shelf with all the magnets.

RAVEN - castellan
KRAST - 3x gallants with icarus
STYGIES - 2x enginseer, 3x skitarii squads

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah, I am not liking all these guard brigades. Too many models. And the blood angels want so many CP. Games might not finish. Maybe something like this instead? I need just enough icarus shots to kill a flyer. And I have enough CP to play around with various WLT / Relic combos based on opponent. I am expecting YNAARI soup and guard megablob body counts. I have one castellan and 3x questoris classes on my shelf with all the magnets.

RAVEN - castellan
KRAST - 3x gallants with icarus
STYGIES - 2x enginseer, 3x skitarii squads

This list interests me. Who’s your warlord in the above? What traits/heirlooms are you sticking on the knights? I can guess Landstrider on one of the Gallants is probably a safe bet.

You taking Cawls Wrath and 4++ on the Castellan?

I like the potential of this list. I’ve smugly seen the damage one Gallant can do, but 3 smashing into an opponents lines is disgustingly funny to
Imagine!

*edit*

For tournaments do you have to declare what traits your knights take in advance? Or can you just rock up and use the stratagems pregame to tailor to your opponent?

 Ideasweasel wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Yeah, I am not liking all these guard brigades. Too many models. And the blood angels want so many CP. Games might not finish. Maybe something like this instead? I need just enough icarus shots to kill a flyer. And I have enough CP to play around with various WLT / Relic combos based on opponent. I am expecting YNAARI soup and guard megablob body counts. I have one castellan and 3x questoris classes on my shelf with all the magnets.

RAVEN - castellan
KRAST - 3x gallants with icarus
STYGIES - 2x enginseer, 3x skitarii squads

This list interests me. Who’s your warlord in the above? What traits/heirlooms are you sticking on the knights? I can guess Landstrider on one of the Gallants is probably a safe bet.

You taking Cawls Wrath and 4++ on the Castellan?

I like the potential of this list. I’ve smugly seen the damage one Gallant can do, but 3 smashing into an opponents lines is disgustingly funny to
Imagine!

*edit*

For tournaments do you have to declare what traits your knights take in advance? Or can you just rock up and use the stratagems pregame to tailor to your opponent?

In ITC, you must declare which model is your actual Warlord. But the actual WLT and free relic are selected at game time. And then all WLTs and Relics from stratagems necessarily must be selected after the game has started. No one can spend strategems if there isn't a game going! So my thinking would be:

Castellan - real warlord on the list, 4++/Cawl's [on list]
Gallant 1 - landstrider/ 2+ armor [from strategems]
Gallant 2 - either headsmans mark or the relic fist. Possibly +1 attack if I think I will get strategem denied. [from strategems]

Also, Headsman's Mark + KnightSeneschal + Krast_6+_hit strategem is beast mode! 18 stomps that deal +1/+2 damage with exploding 6s to hit and rerolling failed hits! That stomps out every TITANIC model in the game in one swing. I am pretty sure it one swings mortarian as well due to 6s getting 2 extra hits versus CHAOS.

Nice, that all sounds really good. If you come up against chaos It’s jackpot time.

I’m going to have to try and test this. Best of luck with the trial run this weekend. May your many robotic feet dance the tune of destruction!

Mortarian's 4++/5+++ should keep him alive against a Gallant's attacks - at least if he's still on full wounds at that point. Personally I think the Krast relic is much better used on a Crusader or Castellan - or maybe even a Valiant.

The nova that a Gallant generates is cool (unless it's directed at cultists) but it doesn't compare to the damage you'll do overall with a shooty knight, by firing every turn. Gallants die pretty easily so they don't get to do their hits all that often.