40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**NivlacSupreme**

Hmm... I wonder if the Dangles will let any of the new marines into the inner circle.

**MLaw**

MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Galef wrote:
Bulldogging wrote:

Now, with that said, I'm HAPPY they are making marines the correct size(relative to humans)

This call for "truescale" Marines has never made sense to me. The Marines were fine. It's everything else that is too big. We should be calling for smaller human sized models
This is a miniatures game after all.

-

Marines has never been "fine". They've always been badly proportioned with weird anatomy.

What have been more than "fine" are all the human sized minis that GW have released in the last couple of years. These new marines are a massive improvement in both scale and proportions over the current ones. I'm not fond of the new jump packs or the gravis armour, but the standard primaries marines are fantastic.

Not only that but the game isn't a 25mm game as some people have tried asserting. It's supposed to be 28mm. IG are pretty close to being right around 28mm to the eye level. That's the height an "average" human male (I know it's subjective) should be. Yeah, the Cadians have proportion problems (and this is coming from a Catachan player) but height isn't one of those problems. Mickey Mouse hands and feet.. yup.. Short torso.. uh huh. Gorilla arms? You betcha. But that bottom of the feet to eye level is basically where it's at.
People who talk about proportions usually don't understand them very well. I'm an artist and had to spend a lot of time learning proportions. It's not something people just know. The new marines look great to me and are believable as 8' tall superhuman badasses. I would have possibly preferred them to be a bit wider and thicker but I think they refrained to allow compatibility with the older upgrade kits as someone else mentioned.

**unmercifulconker**

MLaw wrote:
The conversion kits (ie. Shoulder pads and/or helmets) for most chapters should have most armies up and rolling in no time. BTs and DAs.. eh..not so much. Very glad I learned to sculpt

Anyone who does happen to be looking for tabards for BTs, Spellcrow has some. No clue if they'll be big enough for the new marines or not but it's something to consider.

Ma Brother.

**Thargrim**

Rayvon wrote:
Darkseid wrote:

I wonder how marines will coexist in the next couple of releases. I hope we won't see a phase-out of the old scale models.

Me too, although I think the writing is on the wall though, sadly.

I'm hoping they think SM sell well enough to support both ranges. It would be painful to see so many years of 40k fluff and history vanish from a model perspective. The primus marines are cool but as others have said they are very sleek and not as gothic. No studs or rivets on them etc. And that kind of look is part of what has defined 40k for so long. Even if they don't get any more new kits from here on out, i'd hope they get officially supported rules for many more years.

**Dr. Cheesesteak**

So are are all other non-power armor factions going to be getting new, taller models sooner than later? Or are Marines now going to tower over Orks, Eldar, etc for the long term foreseeable future...?

**MLaw**

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
So are are all other non-power armor factions going to be getting new, taller models sooner than later? Or are Marines now going to tower over Orks, Eldar, etc for the long term foreseeable future...?

For Orks the Nobs and bigger should be about Space marine height. Ork Boyz are not. They are supposed to be just taller than a man but much bulkier. If anything, Grotz might be too tall.

The thing to consider is that humans are supposed to be the metric these things are based on .. not Space Marines. As it stands I believe Tau are about right. Eldar and Dark Eldar might need to be a tad taller, Tyranids are probably okay, Necrons could probably stand a slight upgrade (or just to stand up straight really).. hrm.. other than other humans or Space Marines I think that's it?

**docdoom77**

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
So are are all other non-power armor factions going to be getting new, taller models sooner than later? Or are Marines now going to tower over Orks, Eldar, etc for the long term foreseeable future...?

You mean are they finally going to be the size they are supposed to be compared to other factions? It looks like it! Good thing, too.

**A Town Called Malus**

Voldrak wrote:
Not sure if this was already posted, but just in case it hasnt been:

http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/05/reglamento-warhammer-40000.html

I am slightly confused by the movement rule.

Currently the movement rules for tanks were FAQ'ed to prevent people from deploying sideways on their 12 inches line, pivoting turn 1 and moving up 12 inches, effectively gaining 0.5 to 1 inche depending on the model size. Basically no parts of your vehicules could finish at more than 12 inches from it's original spot, no matter the facing / pivot.

Those new rules seem to indicate that if you move 12 inches forward, stop and then pivot slightly to get a different angle on your target for LOS purposes you would end up moving the back of your hull more than 12 inches and as such would be illegal.

This seems like it would slow down the current process of measure a spot 6 or 12 inches away from your tank, picking it up and putting it down however you want as long as it's not outside of that original mark. Now if you don't keep the exact same positioning, parts of your hull are bound to have moved more than 12 inches.

Am I understanding this correctly?

You are understanding it correctly but it also hasn't changed at all. It was already in the rules for 7th edition (and 6th also, I think) that if you wanted to move at combat speed then no part of your vehicle hull could move more than 6" from where it started, same for cruising speed and parts of hull moving more than 12". If you want to do a pivot, work out which part of your vehicle will move the furthest and measure from there.

**NinthMusketeer**

Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

They could use some scale creep IMO. They are way too small to have their supposed transport ability.

On a seperate note, anyone else not like the leg positioning of the jetpack numarines?

**changemod**

Thargrim wrote:
Rayvon wrote:
Darkseid wrote:

I wonder how marines will coexist in the next couple of releases. I hope we won't see a phase-out of the old scale models.

Me too, although I think the writing is on the wall though, sadly.

I'm hoping they think SM sell well enough to support both ranges. It would be painful to see so many years of 40k fluff and history vanish from a model perspective. The primus marines are cool but as others have said they are very sleek and not as gothic. No studs or rivets on them etc. And that kind of look is part of what has defined 40k for so long. Even if they don't get any more new kits from here on out, i'd hope they get officially supported rules for many more years.

There's an extremely thin chance of earlier Mark armour released to match the primaris marines in height at some point, but there's exactly zero possibility that current marines are to be "phased out." For one thing, the heresy era range sells very well and can't possibly include primaris marines without a complete retcon of the setting. For another, primaris marines don't serve the same role as regular Tacticals, assault marines and Devastators, deploying in smaller numbers with more specialised equipment.

Honestly this entire "phase out" theory is basically a conspiracy theory with no support beyond the mere fact that new models exist.

**A Town Called Malus**

KommissarKiln wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
This is the problem I was talking about. If this is how it goes if unit gets wounded by 4 lascannons that's 4 lascannons you need to roll one by one.

d6. 4 wounds. 4 DR rolls.
d6. 2 wounds. 2 DR rolls
d6. 6 wounds. 6 DR rolls
d6. 1 wound. 1 DR roll

See? That would be very slow rolling! With speed and simplicy being buzzwords I doubt that is how it goes.

That looks completely wrong. Somehow you're rolling for damage twice per lascannon, no wonder it seems so slow to you. Try:
4 lascannons have hit and wounded. Roll saves (if any). Only then, for unsaved wounds, roll d6 damage per unsaved wound, one at a time. You don't cause d6 wounds per lascannon, then roll for damage for each wound. You've essentially squared the damage done per lascannon in your example.

No, he's assuming that 4 lascannons have hit and wounded and saves have failed to stop the wound. The first lascannon gets 4 damage, 2nd 2 damage, 3rd 6 damage, 4th 1 damage. If they are shooting a unit with the new FNP rule (disgustingly resilient = DR) then each wounded model rolls a save for each damage.

So a model with FNP which suffers 6 damage has to make 6 FNP rolls.

**Desubot**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.
They could use some scale creep IMO. They are way too small to have their supposed transport ability.

On a seperate note, anyone else not like the leg positioning of the jetpack numarines?

Its the only thing i dont like about them

i can deal with the mickymouse ear jet pack but the leg pose ticks me the most.

nothing a little surgery cant fix though.

**AegisGrimm**

So, I'm late to the ballgame a bit with the latest pics:

Is the Astartes character supposed to be in "Primaris Terminator Armor"? Or is he just godawful huge, standing even taller than normal TDA? Will be a huge bummer if Primaris TDA is just extra-extra tall power armor.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

AegisGrimm wrote:
So, I'm late to the ballgame a bit with the latest pics:

Is the Astartes character supposed to be in "Primaris Terminator Armor"? Or is he just godawful huge, standing even taller than normal TDA? Will be a huge bummer if Primaris TDA is just extra-extra tall power armor.

Its Gravis Pattern Armor, what ever that means.

**docdoom77**

AegisGrimm wrote:
So, I'm late to the ballgame a bit with the latest pics:

Is the Astartes character supposed to be in "Primaris Terminator Armor"? Or is he just godawful huge, standing even taller than normal TDA? Will be a huge bummer if Primaris TDA is just extra-extra tall power armor.

Nobody knows. Until I saw it in a comparison shot, I thought it was just the Primaris equivalent of artificer armor, but damn it's huge! I hope it's not the equivalent of Terminator armor. I'd like Terminators be more distinct.

**changemod**

Theorising that the godawful jump marines and the captain are in Mark Nine armour, hence the differences and particularly that they're all wearing librarian hoods for no reason.

**AegisGrimm**

Nobody knows. Until I saw it in a comparison shot, I thought it was just the Primaris equivalent of artificer armor, but damn it's huge! I hope it's not the equivalent of Terminator armor. I'd like Terminators be more distinct.

Thats what I thought, too. Primaris are already pretty huge in scale, but the character just looks like a Space Marine from a larger-scaled game plunked down next to the rest. He's like a 28mm scale guy in a 15-20mm scale game.

And a pretty awkward pose, too, with a wierd barrel torso.

**Crimson**

I'm wondering what sort of statlines primaris characters will have. The standard primaris have one wound and attack over their non-primaris brethren, but if the same is true for characters, then what will differentiate primaris lieutenant from standard captain and a primaris captain from standard chapter master?

**godardc**

Gravis is soooo bad, it just looks like a big power armour.
Terminator armours are very distinctive at least.

**A Town Called Malus**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
So, I'm late to the ballgame a bit with the latest pics:

Is the Astartes character supposed to be in "Primaris Terminator Armor"? Or is he just godawful huge, standing even taller than normal TDA? Will be a huge bummer if Primaris TDA is just extra-extra tall power armor.

Its Gravis Pattern Armor, what ever that means.

It means he's a sick Space Marine.

**Sersi**

unmercifulconker wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
Another size comparison photo - Source: Steppingbetweengames blog

http://steppingbetweengames.com/new-8th-edition-40k-models-size-comparison/

Jesus it just feels odd looking at a normal marine now. Which is annoying cas now I wish I could have giant Templars but just heads and pads won't cut it.

Damn that Nurgle Lord is a proper sort!

Oh, I'm sure you could get the tabard front pieces to fit like we have for years on termies . Might run the risk of getting a paddlin' from a chaplain for them being to short though.

I think the size disparity in size between Initiates and neophytes in a crusader squad will be enormous.

**RyanAvx**

Youn wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
lord marcus wrote:
I'm still looking for base sizes for the dark imperium box.
How would someone know, the box is going to be released in 3 weeks

Based on the ruler you can see in that picture.

Primaris and Death guard come on 25mm or 28mm bases.
All characters come on 32mm bases.

The drone, Lord of Contagion , Noxious Blightbringer came on a 40mm base.
The Inceptors come on curved 32mm flight bases.

You are, unfortunately, quite wrong.

Primaris Marines and Plague Marines 32mm
Primaris Characters, 2 Death Guard Characters and Interceptors 40mm
Pox Walkers 25mm
Plague Drone and Lord of Decay 50/60mm

**docdoom77**

I don't understand the hate on the new jump/jet Primaris. I think they're amazing! I love the huge jetpack with leg supports. Looks good and reminds me of old RT Era art.

**changemod**

In regards to the Gravis Captain size issue, I'm pretty sure he's outright Primarch sized.

I've attached a few comparisons, and note also that the 40k Gulliman model is made artificially larger by being in a suit of life support armour that's effectively a variant on the concept of a dreadnought.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay so not only did something go wrong with the attachment process, I don't seem to be able to modify or remove them.

That's what I get for trying to add images from an ipad instead of my laptop, I guess. Sorry.

Still... The Corax picture is one of the three for making my point with. That marine on the scenic base is similar in scale against Corax to a normal marine against the Gravis armour.

**Hollow**

Everything looks great!

Love the fact that the book comes in the starting set and having all the Indexes available from day one (at such a reasonable price) is fantastic, A couple hundred quid and I'll be rolling in 40k goodness for weeks to come.

The "Why isn't a for profit private company not giving me free stuff" comments would be funny is they weren't so sad and deluded, although they definitely have competition from the farcical "I have multiple armies, so I'll need to buy multiple things" crowd. Erm yeah... no s*** Sherlock.

My birthday is on the 16th of June. New 40k on the 17th. What are great present for me!!!

**gungo**

Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
So are are all other non-power armor factions going to be getting new, taller models sooner than later? Or are Marines now going to tower over Orks, Eldar, etc for the long term foreseeable future...?

you should pay attention to the new ork models. Better scale would be to look at the last 3 sets of mega armour orks the last set is now the size of ghazs resin model ..... meaning I expect a massive MC size ghaz soon.

**Ronin_eX**

docdoom77 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on the new jump/jet Primaris. I think they're amazing! I love the huge jetpack with leg supports. Looks good and reminds me of old RT Era art.

I agree.

If we assume the usual "just about to land" or "leaping in to the air" pose of assault marines, then these look off.

But if we assume that these are skimming over the ground and in flight while using the leg jets for maneuver/stabilization? The legs look fine.

These things aren't assault marines, at least not from the look of it. They are flying marines.

They actually remind me a lot of SAMAS suits from Rifts .

They also appear to be wearing gravis armour as well. Colour me intrigued at the prospect of flying terminators.

In general, I'd say they're my favourite of the bunch in terms of look and composition.

**changemod**

docdoom77 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on the new jump/jet Primaris. I think they're amazing! I love the huge jetpack with leg supports. Looks good and reminds me of old RT Era art.

Wearing a librarian's hood, jump pack is attached to the hood rather than the back of the armour, making it essentially connected to the head. No air intakes unlike every other jump pack design. Leg pose is very awkward, and the tread-skate things look weird. The little shields on the half a stormbolter guns look kinda weird. It's strange to see an assault marine unit with no close combat weapons whatsoever.

Just trying to list every design objection specific to them I can think of, both my own and ones I've heard from elsewhere.

**SnotlingPimpWagon**

What is the purpose of the mini shields on the guns of "not-jet-pack-marines"?
Other than that detail, they seem fine to me, they have this astronaut thing going on..

**Tyel**

On topic - Love the death guard. Plague Cultists don't mean as much to me as they might meant to others but love the characters, love the Plague Marines and love the Drone. Very optimistic about further releases in this line based on the video we saw some time back.

Non-plussed about the Marines. They look like Marines but with slightly bulkier armour and about 5mm bigger. I probably come down on the side of thinking the new assault marines look silly, but I suspect its the flying bases (which, if I am honest, I have never liked in any form). I'll get used to them.

I don't know if this has come up... but can anyone explain the True Scale Marine crusade? Its gone and on and on and on and I have never got it. For approaching twenty years its never made sense to me.

Why does it matter if your marines are half a centimetre taller? I cannot understand it.