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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Hello, after many many months of temptation, I have finally decided to start Warmachine. Since the game came out, I have always liked Menoth, so that is the army I would like to collect. I have a few questions, and any help would be much appriciated.

Fist thing I plan to buy is the Menoth Starter Set, here are my questions:

1. I have heard things about Feora that sound interesting, what units is she best at commanding and giving focus to.

2. Is the caster in the starter set good enough to build an army around? And if so, what kind of composision benifits him?

3. I like Jacks, which caster works the best with a Jack heavy list (if that is even effective)?

4. Also what are the capabilities of Protectorate Warcaster - Harbinger of Menoth .

Thank you for your comments.


Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Battle College is a good place to start.

1. I have heard things about Feora that sound interesting, what units is she best at commanding and giving focus to.

Feora tends to keep her focus as she's the Protectorate's main melee
warcaster. When she spends 2 focus to cast Engine of Destruction, her
stats boost so that's she's at 8SPD (as fast as cavalry!), 11STR (17POW on
two melee attacks), and 8MAT (as good as the Paladin of the Wall).


2. Is the caster in the starter set good enough to build an army around? And if so, what kind of composision benifits him?

High Exemplar Kreoss is a great all around caster. His feat is easily one of the
most powerful in the game as even your most inaccurate troops (re: Deliverers)
will hit a knocked down target most of the time. His spells make it difficult for
Warcasters to approach with magic as he can dispel their effects. Ranged troops
are the order of the day for a "pop 'n drop" Kreoss army. So Redeemers (a ranged
warjack), deliverers, even sunbursts!

Only problem with the starter set is that Repenter. But I suppose it will give as
good as it can with a choir behind it and knocked down infantry all over the board.

3. I like Jacks, which caster works the best with a Jack heavy list (if that is even effective)?

Amon ad-Raza is the designated warjack warcaster, but he's pretty finess-ey. Of the
three in Prime, I think Severius will have the focus and spells to help your warjacks, but
then you'll want Severius to have focus and arc nodes so he can cast his spells.

It's good (and bad) thing for us that we have access to a heavy arc node!

4. Also what are the capabilities of Protectorate Warcaster - Harbinger of Menoth .

She's your troops warcaster, though with 10 focus one could argue that she can
fuel a bunch of heavy warjacks all the same. However, her spell list interacts with
infantry and she cannot use arc nodes to cast her spells.

I haven't used her yet, but she has some weird denial spells that force your enemy
to choose his allocations that turn, and another one that prevents units in her
command range from giving or receiving orders next turn. Her feat is anti-infantry
and easily avoided, but again, you're denying your opponent charge lanes and aiming
bonuses, etc.

Most common use is her spell Martyrdom, I believe. Our unit leaders can make or
break our units (Zealot prayers, choir chants) so enemies try to assassinate them. With
Martyrdom up, she takes d3 damage and keeps the model alive but knocked down.
With her huge focus bank of 10, it's simple enough to recharge her power field.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Kreoss is a solid caster. Good to learn with. I would personally go with knights with Kreoss and definetly go with knights for eKreoss.

Feora can be a beatstick. Watched her core a deathjack in one game in a single turn. (Of course, the DJ had already wrecked 2 jacks and severely damaged a 3rd.)

Kreoss isn't a bad caster for jacks. The Harbinger is pretty good also due to the high amount of focus she generates.

I've seen the harbinger used more as a support caster for infantry horde armies.

These are just some observations that I've noticed in my games against Menoth so far. One day, I'll actually dig into the list as I plan on it being my second army for warmachine. I'm pretty sure Ed can get into menoth better.

All problems can be solved with proper use of a high powered rifle and a water tower 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Orlando, Florida

Start w/ the boxed set and we'll move you out from there.  I should have it available for you shortly so you have no out of pocket money for trying the game. I should be at the store this coming saturday and I'll be happy to do some demos for you. 

Battle college is indeed a good place to see the basic rundown for units in both warmachine & hordes. Figuring out your playstyle will be the important thing. I'd also urge you to try the other factions to see how they play as well.

 

Lazarus.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Forgive my Noodiness, but what does a chior do?

Would getting the starter set, then dropping the Repenter, then adding a unit of Delivers and a unit of Knights Exemplar, be a good starting force (if I can fit that into a list)?

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







And get choir!

(Basic purchase after the boxed set hehe)

Choir has three chants. You can activate one per activation, and a warjack can
only be affected by one per round. The three are:

Infuse: Warjacks get +2 to hit/+2 dmg
Warding: Warjacks cannot be targeted by spells
Safe Passage: Warjacks cannot be targeted by ranged attacks.

A full unit (Priest +5 acolytes) has a range of 8" when they chant, and costs only 22
points. You'll have to look for blisters for these, though, as I don't thinkt hey ever
made a box.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sanford, Fl

Mahu:

So you got the bug.  I regularly play against both Cryx and Menoth.  One thing I always see is a choir and the Harbanger.

But get a starter and play a few games.  By the way James is a good teacher of WM.

Now that the campaign is over I am going to alternate between 40K and Warmachine.

I will tell you that this game is not very forgiving so mistakes tend to compond themselves.

As far as the game go it is fun to play and most games go quicker than 40K although I have run into a player or two who like to stall.

Good luck and maybe we can play at some point.

Warrior 50

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Orlando, Florida

Martin is 100% right on that mistakes are unforgiving in this game.

 

I just put in my PG order a few minutes ago and bulked up on Circle, Cryx and Cygnar instead of starting my menoth next. I'll still pick up a starter box though probably late this week sometime. Eventually I'll own all factions but i'm im no hurry.

 

Lazarus.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sanford, Fl

Mahu;

If you want to play a box set or 500 point game on Saturday I plan to bring my stuff and Lazarus can help you out as we go.

I should be there about noon so if you want to play let me know.

Warrior 50
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Thank you all for the help. I plan to get the starter set this week and have it painted up by Saturday. Than I will go from there.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Start in Seattle then hike across the sound.

Welcome to the Menites! A people to whom piracy isn't just necasery, its holy.

I only use Kreoss. I switched out the revenger for a guardian, threw in a devout and added some temple flame guard for a decent 500 point list of pokie units.

Support your local Kroot. Buy Kroot mercs today! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






One (huge) thing to consider when thinking about lists is: how into tournaments will you be?

This year's tournament rules allow you to take two lists, and the missions they give strongly encourage you to take two lists. So at some point, realize you might be collecting two armies based on two difference casters.

First, for assassination (kill the other guy's caster, basically a straight VPs game), you'll want a jack heavy army. Menoth loves his jacks. Personally, because of the choir (those songs affect ALL jacks in range), I think we've got the best straight beatstick jacks in the game. For example, in my assassination list my 93 point crusader is MAT8 and Str+Pow21 when infused and affected by eye of menoth. That's jack of renown quality stats for 93 points!

Kreoss is actually the best assassination caster, and he's got enough focus and the right spells to support a bunch of jacks. So learning with him is great. Move up, pop your feat, everyone lays down, then you rail rocket death on your enemy, usually his caster.

For the other tournament missions, you need an infantry horde. I personally use the high reclaimer, but if you want to try the Harbinger, she's excellent for this as well. In these missions killing stuff doesn't much matter. It's all about objectives in these.

For a good infantry horde, you must take knights errant. They're simply required for the advanced deployment to have a fair shot in these missions. And as many zealots (and one monolith bearer) as you can buy. I use 20.

Here are my two 500 point lists. I've very rarely lose with them. It's been years since I haven't at least won the faction medal.

Assasination:

Severius, Crusader, 2 redeemers (the rocket jacks), revenger, 6 choir, 9 zealots and the monolith bearer

This list pretty much works with simply replacing severius with Kreoss.

The rest of the missions:

High reclaimer, revenger, high paladin dartan vilmon, seneschal, paladin, 2 wracks, 8 errants, 10 zealots+monolith bearer, 10 (more) zealots, the piper of ord

To fit in the harbinger, you'll probably need to lose the revenger, but she doesn't need it.


"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Thank you very, very much Mauleed, you gave me all the information I need.

My first list will be along the lines of your Assasination list, I really like Kreoss, so I will probably keep him.

After I get more experience with that list I will move on to your second list and take Harbinger, she was one of the models that really drew me to this line.

I bought the starter set yesterday and already have Kreoss painted and the rest of the jacks assembled, one of the things I did was take Plastruct tile sheets and lay it in the base for a look like the models. I really like how this army looks.

Time to get some games in Saturday!

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sanford, Fl

Mahu; That is a good idea of using the plastic. Another one is using small stones or plaster to build a base that has chuncks of debris for the figure to stand on. I have not gone in that direction yet but may with some of the new figs from superiority.

My box set is 318 point wise and I have several 500 point lists for my Cygnar force. I will be at Sci Fi on Saturday maybe we can get a game in. I know they have a WH fantasy RTT this weekend, but there should be a place we can do a 4 X 4 table and play.

Good luck with your force.

Warrior 50
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I'm NOT looking forward to gluing the harbinger together. I think to say she's an advanced modelling project is an understatement.

Here's some more menoth specific advice (that you'd learn very quickly even without me telling you): Rockets never hit. But they don't need to. We just put up a bunch every turn, and deviate into things.

In the early turns stick 3 focus on each redeemer, and just fire away into the enemy light infantry. Anything that scatters 2" or less still hits what you were aiming at and takes a POW 6 (or POW8 if infused) blast damage hit. This is one of the reasons I use Sevy, since eye of menoth is another +1. If you get a roll against something juicy, like a unit leader, you can boost it (something you can not do with deliverers).

And if you do get in a shooting match, the choir sings "no shooting" and you get to shoot and they can't shoot back.


"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Thank you again.

I worry not about the Harbinger, my favorite thing is assembling models (I even run conversion commisions on the side).

In your list, what roll does the Revenger take? I know it has an Arc Node.

I also here a lot of people speak of a bait unit, which one is in your list or do you just throw shooting out.

Thank you again.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Orlando, Florida

I'll probably have to secure us a small table this saturday because of the RTT this weekend. I'll have all my demo stuff ready so that you can try several different things.

 

You could use 2 different lists in the last steam roller format so that is nothing new. The biggest thing that the new steamroller does is that it allows the use of solos that people might have been scared to use for fear of giving up easy VP's. Most all of the scenarios are usually won on objective and not VP's. Caster kill has also been removed as an automatic win condidtion in all scenarios but one.

 

Lazarus.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Thank you Lazarus and Warrior_50, I am super excited about starting. And like I said, I will have the starter force ready. I will also bring the first list Mauleed gave me so I can get a feel for that, so I know where to go next (though everybody says I need to buy a choir absolutely first).

A quick question, there are different scenario options in Army Builder which one is most common or the one I should build my list two.

Thank you all.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sanford, Fl

Mahu;

I would say one should be based on taking objectives and the other an assissaniation list. I am beginning to see that these are the two way list are being posted on the PP forum and I guess fokes here want it posted the same way.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Bellevue, WA

Mahu: You want rumble as your scenario. That lets you take infantry and solos.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Depending on the situation, the Revenger is a nice melee jack.

Powerful charge with infuse gets you MAT 9 on the charge.

If you decide to slam, you're effectively hitting at MAT 3 with infuse vs.
a heavy jack, and you need a charge lane and at least 3" to take out
a heavy (which is a pretty good deal trading a revenger for a juggernaught
or some other evil slammable heavy). MAT 3 vs. DEF 10 means you need
to boost to hit in a less than average world.

If you don't have range for a slam, and have a nice focus warcaster, there's
always the head-butt. 1 focus for a headbutt (at -4 to hit vs. large warjack,
so you're hitting at MAT 3 with infuse) 1 focus to boost the headbutt (it
gives you better than average chance to knock down that heavy) and then
spend the third focus to autohit with the shield to push back the model
1". Unless the jack has reach or ranged, you've just stopped a heavy jack
from tearing apart/throwing/slamming etc.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Orlando, Florida

Scenarios for friendly play usually just revolve around VP's. I'll bring my steamroller tournet kit w/ me to show you the regular scenarios you will be expecting in there. We could have you ready for the sep 9th tourney if we work hard.

 

Either way the game is a blast and I'm sure that you will enjoy it.

 

Lazarus.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Wow, there is a tournament on the 9th? Hmm, I am not going to be in the Saturday after this Saturday. I need to find some funds to finish this army I have planned.

But first thing first, I need to get some games in so I undertand the rules, I have read the Quick Start rules several times, but there are things those don't cover.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Bellevue, WA

As a point of etiquette Mahu, let me suggest you not play in a tournament. They're a great learning environment, but only for learning as in getting your ass kicked and learning from it. Few things frustrate me more than paying for a tournament only to play against someone who doesn't understand how the game works, or how his models work. Especially in the Steamroller format (which is very time limited) this ends up making it so your game only goes half as long turnwise, which can very much change the outcome.

If you feel comfortable with the rules and all, then by all means go ahead. But I'd give it some thought first.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






To Mahu:

"In your list, what roll does the Revenger take? I know it has an Arc Node."

It's there primarily for the arc node. There are occasions when I need to run him forward and channel ashes to ashes (such as when trenchers are behind their smoke bombs) or death sentence through him. And for his points he's actually excellent in hth. But both of those spells are Sevy only, and sevy is very fragile and doesn't want to be anywhere near anything he's casting spells at, so the revenger is a must with him.

"I also here a lot of people speak of a bait unit, which one is in your list or do you just throw shooting out."

As you noted, that list doesn't need a bait unit, because it will rack up VPs against you as you close on it. However, the revenger is generally the first thing pushed forward (generally for the arc node), and it's excellent in this roll because of it's ARM19 and pushback effect on the shield. Things without reach only get to hit it once, so other jacks have a hard time wrecking it.

And if you're going to play in Steamroller tournaments you are definitely going to want two lists. As Lazarus points out, you need a high "unit" count with the objective missions, and you specifically don't want that in assassination. Focus on learning assassination first though, as it's more broad and educational. Some of the objective missions have you making choices that would never make any sense in any other mission.


"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Orlando, Florida

On playing in tournaments:

I strongly suggest that new players involve themselves in our local tourneys. More often than not we are talking about a $5.00 entry fee and it guarantees you at least 3 games against people you may not be normally playing against. there are now 9 casters per faction not counting the mercs and I'm also excluding hordes. It is often difficult to get the experience you need without doing this. It's perfectly ok to lose in the beginning as you will learn far more from each loss than you do from your wins....

Mauleed is right on that assassination is a good way to start. I play mainly cryx so that's my bread and butter. With your general gaming experience I don't think that you will have any problems picking this game up quickly.

 

When you build your two lists you will be doing so exclusively with either scenarios in mi nd or particular list builds of the enemy. I'll often run Goreshade as my second caster to deal with Sorscha for example.

 

Lazarus.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

I don't think I can build and paint 2 lists worth of minatures in such a short amount of time. If I do participate, I might have to borrow models.

Also I am not going to be there on the 2nd. So my attendance of the tournament doesn't look good, but I will difer to your judgement Lazarus.

Still I am exicted to get started.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







2 lists is as simple as swapping out a warcaster and a few key models. Some people
WRITE two lists but just play one.

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Bellevue, WA

Laz: I agree, tournaments are invaluable to learn how to play better; that's basically why I go to them (god knows I'm not winning many faction coins!). They're just IMO not an appropriate place to learn to play; if you dig the difference.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Unless I am sure of how to play I won't play in the tournament. That said, I think I have a good foundation already of the basic game mechanics, I just need to get some games in and familiarize my self more.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
 
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