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Well, maybe I should pay for my pledges shipping then. I never did as I wrote this off as a scam and didn't want to throw away more cash. I really hope we do get our games.
There is a difference between a scam and a mismanaged business failing to deliver. The former implies a deliberate attempt to take money with no intent to deliver from the outset, I don't think that was the case in this instance.
But had written this off as a lost kickstarter. A real shame as there was so much potential and the minis we had seen looked lovely.
If there are stirrings would be great to finally see something. If not, fortunately I've invested in other Kickstarters that have delivered, such as Zombiecide black plague and Conan.
This again proves to me how naive GZ are though. Why on earth do they think anyone in their right mind would contemplate handing over money to preorder this game now?
If it had been completed and shipped so that backers could vouch for its quality/existence I would understand people wanting to preorder. Those funds could then help produce a batch of games for retail, but as it stands, they're just wanting more people to trust them. So far, there is no evidence to suggest that that is a sensible idea.
EDIT: Dear god I cannot spell!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/12/04 15:28:52
Gorechild, I think this is a mental trap of Gamezone. They genuinely are close to completion, however they might never get to make the final step.
If we add up what hasnt been done and it mostly revolves around cardboard components, i.e. outsourced manufacturing.
Any factory willing to make cards for HQ25 will want to be paid, abnd I doubt Gamezone can pay. The company is trying to get extra pre-orders in order to fund these portions of the campaign, and frankly I dont think they can.
The new year was my cut off. I will be asking Gamezone for my miniatures (it was what all I was actually after).
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Any factory willing to make cards for HQ25 will want to be paid, abnd I doubt Gamezone can pay. The company is trying to get extra pre-orders in order to fund these portions of the campaign, and frankly I dont think they can.
I completely agree, but what still baffles me is that if this is true, why not say so? Because currently they're just releasing pointless fortnightly videos showcasing models we all saw 18 months ago, and announcing a release date that, if you're correct, they are still unlikely to meet.
If they admitted they needed the funding from preorders to pay for the boards to get printed but showed that all of the mini's had been produced, with a photo of the hundreds of filled crates we saw and a new picture similar to this one:
Spoiler:
Proving the game is basically done, I'm sure it would encourage more people to order.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/05 13:05:03
and more images http://imgur.com/a/DbBxS - those cards surely at this stage they can do better than running them off on an office printer
Oh dear ... as suspected miniatures are about all they have to show for "all" their work. What have they spent nearly €700k on?
News: nothing, zero, niente, nothing. People who have spoken to Dionisio asking for explanations or dates have encountered the habitual and repeated "we keep the secret, we prefer that you take the surprise, we want to wait until it is finished to teach things".
Painted minis: painting the minis is very simple. Just basecoat plus brushes dry and washed or bonded. The minis look nothing, but nothing with this poor paint job.
Cardboard and paperwork: letters, character sheets ... printed in a "stream" to have something to teach but certainly nothing done. HORRORS spelling, writing problems, rules that have more holes than Hulk breeches after a hairless ...
Board: printed and pasted on foam board. As is. Functional, sip. But…
Overall impression: everyone agrees that there has been, what has been is botched, it is a project which is carried as a promotion for presentation to start doing something. There was nothing finished (except the minis) and the painting on top did not make them look, but the opposite. ... Zero new information ... and what's worse, more rumors. Like that in a few days they will send us an email to offer us to return the money or stay the game. And I REPEAT, rumors, because when someone says "I've been told he said it" is not worth even to announce it as "maybe". There are people who have tried the game but ... there are no reviews yet of what they found (if they speak however of the poor aspect of the prototype with which they have played).
I don't believe the refund thing at all but at this stage I'd take the money and run.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/12/06 00:17:56
I thought the game looked great... those minis just look ok. I personally think zombicide black plague minis look more detailed!
I hope they let us get refunds as they spoke of. For as fun as the game would be (if ever released), Im not up for the gamble anymore. I'd rather use the cash to play one of the many systems I am involved in now.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
I mean they've been sending out (to me at least) fairly regular updates via email with model previews and each one recently - last few months - has been saying March 2017 on it.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
I'd hope so, but based on their track record, it's just as likely that they thought they were in March two months ago when they sent out the original email, and they haven't bothered to update their website since then
Fingers crossed we hear something in the next few weeks, but I wouldn't hold your breath. I set my expectations to rock bottom after they missed their second Christmas deadline, and that was over a year ago now! Expect nothing and at least there is a small chance of getting a pleasant surprise.
judgedoug wrote: I mean they've been sending out (to me at least) fairly regular updates via email with model previews and each one recently - last few months - has been saying March 2017 on it.
Videos and pictures of models don't count today any more than they did a year -- or more -- ago.
I'm also really concerned about some of the translations that have been coming up in these recent videos. There are a couple of rules in that last one that sound like their 'professional translator' is google. Yes you can figure out what it's means, but it's going to really cheapen the end product for anyone that isn't getting their version in Spanish.
The English language videos seem professional enough, if the same person looks through the cards and rules for typos we may well be ok.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Yes, I went, and when I got there Dionisio agreed to help me during quite a while, even though I didn't have an appointment.
Details:
1- When he announced the March release date he thought he had everything ready to pack and ship. According to him, his part is done and he is waiting for various materials to be shipped to an external company (rules, boards, etc.). I asked him when does he expect to receive them, and he told me it has been delayed for two further weeks. He BELIEVES he will be able to have all components in April.
2- He has showed me boxes and boxes of miniatures, all of them labeled and stacked. He has carried already more stuff to the 2nd warehouse he rented, where the packaging will take place.
3- The shipment will be staggered by priorities: starting with Backers, but not by order number because that would mean 2 shipments to Madrid, another one to Burgos and another to Seville, then 3 more to Madrid, etc. He intends to group them by ZIP code. Seems logical.
4- He accepts that many things were made wrong and basically it was a consequence of him liking to work in its own way. It is up to us if we like it or not.
5- He hasn't refuted our theory of lack of funds, stating that when the project was going, the initial funds ran out and he had to find new investors.
6- He insists that we will like the material we are going to receive.
7- Lastly, he hopes that we have a little more patience.
And now, as a personal opinion. I think the project will eventually be made, and it looks that is close to finish. The design quality and miniature quality... that's up to each one of us. I wasn't able and didn't want to look into the details of the miniatures, because I was much more interested in the progress of the project as a whole. I don't know if I miss something, it was a really quick visit. Feel free to ask me anything.
Also
Hello again!
viofla77, one of the members of the italian supporting group, quits after being fed up with Dionisio. According to him:
"Hello everybody, I want to tell you this before you hear it from elsewhere. Today I have quitted the italian translation group. I am really sad because withdrawing my help to other members from La Tana Dei Goblin is something that does not fit within my character.
The first reason is that Dionisio wrote me on September telling me he will send me the files for revision, but he lied to me because the files arrived yesterday in Spanish. Revising and translating are very different things.
The second reason is that he sent us just the cards. How can we translate the cards without having the rulebook? I can't stand it anymore. I'm fed up with this. We'll see what happens in Italy; I think most of them will be happy of having received something after three years, but not me."
More news from HQF french "fan"
If some one could translate, complete french text above...
Just few things, he says:
He has received a part of french files translated by professional translator. He checked and corrected with 3 others "fan".
There is just 50 adventures.
He prefer to be a little more late in order to have a perfect game.
He doesn't want go to so fast.
He asked to Dioniso for few precision about icons, effects,...
A lot of things have changed, he has not all stuff. Two days ago, he said he received all files.
He is in big stress.
He asked one week of vacation on his real job to check everything. He is thinking to ask a second one.
April seems unlikely if translating and proof reading is still being done and then printing needs to happen. The above translators are volunteers not professionals and I certainly wouldn't be giving up annual leave for this!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/24 09:28:01
DaveC, as always thanks so much for your trawls of other forums and blogs to get this information. Is really appreciated
I wonder how we stand for an English translation?
It will be a great deal of work translating some rules. Even something very simple, you often have to interpret the intent of how things should be, it won't be just a case of just throwing in Google Translate. Look at how much Infinity improved in-between editions for instance, and that is with a large, dedicated fanbase. Certainly, if I were an Italian backer I would probably be forgetting about this one for a while for the time being.
The first section seemed rather hopeful, the rest less so (although at least the miniatures are there, board pieces etc. so it seems most of the way there..)
Pacific wrote: DaveC, as always thanks so much for your trawls of other forums and blogs to get this information. Is really appreciated
Yes, and hearing another person confirm they saw warehouses full of miniatures is encouraging. Th game might never get completed, but the minis look like they are ready. On a personal if a little bit selfish perspective I would be happy with that.
I wouldnt assume it to be a market priority for HQ25 as it is for just about anything else. Enderal was professionally localised into English but no other language, French players get subtitles only. As a boardgame its easier to multi-language localise but English must be a priority, its the only other language they do update videos for and Dionisio can speak English anyway so he can check it himself.
That being said most legal objections come from within the English speaking countries. I don't think the French and Germans could give a rats anus about Moon Zones objections.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
To be fair I would have thought the UK should be OK as well, although it's quite possible now that this has been going on for so long that the angry little guy who did the RPG with the same name has completely forgotten about it..
If this is not resolved by then Gamezone would have likely folded. Its a cost black hole now until production is underway for good and sales come in. That cant last indefinititely even if backers and Lanzanos remain patient, a small company cant survive two more years of that level of drain and still work on the game.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
AFAIK English and Spanish were done concurrently. I think only Italian, German, French require translations. I would guess they ship last.
I would also guess that in order to make money, he will ship Spanish editions to e-minis and English editions to Wayland/etc for retail sales, immediately.
Lates video update looks cool though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/28 14:25:34
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
This is one of the riskiest crowd-funding ventures I bought into (in the hopes of having something to introduce my then-7 year old nephew to gaming).
I have zero faith anything will show up. Having designed and produce a game by myself I understand the difficulties...but the pictures we see from conventions - that's stuff that could be done up in a month. Not three+ years. This project is so shockingly behind schedule it's...not going to happen.
surely at this stage they can do better than running them off on an office printer
