Switch Theme:

Confrontation: Resurrection-Skirimsh and board game confirmed.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

Probably see it show up on Miniaturemarket.com and warstore soon then .

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Unless Wayland or one of the other giants steps in to buy it in bulk

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think Ludik ran a bit like miniature market in that they grabbed up stuff from dead companies (like Confrontation), so having a ton of (not very saleable) stock is pretty plausible,

and unless space gets short there's no reason to dump it even if it's not selling (hence why miniature market is only just now deciding to dump the last of it's AT-43 and arcane legion stuff)

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Actually stock can be costly to keep just hanging around, especially if they are keeping it in a site that is both secure and can keep the stock in good condition.

Unless they've basically got an empty warehouse or barn that has no rent to pay, then the rent costs are going to cost them; plus if its stock they can't easily shift or sell then its a continual money drain. It's why you sometimes see big companies just throw away old stock, because it will cost them to store it and cost them to have staff sort and sell it; so its just more cost effective to throw it away.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Huh, odd, WayofGamers.fr is a crowdfunding site.

Looks like they've had a history with Ludik in some manner. Maybe this stock acquisition was because Ludik owed them back pay for work done? This was in their about us section:

Created in 2003, SMART TRADING DIFFUSION was first distributor of multimedia products: Video games, Accessories, Computer products, Board games, ... via Cmoinscher.fr (an internal site), many e-commerce sites: Cdiscount , Allociné, Ludikbazar, Pixmania, ... but also in supermarkets Carrefour, Leclerc, Intermarché, ..

For more than 3 years, SMART TRADING DIFFUSION has been involved in business consulting, particularly in the Administrative and Financial Department, and more specifically in the gaming universe, including crowdfunding operations (Editions SANS-DETOUR, Ludikbazar , Ludibay).

Finally, SMART TRADING DIFFUSION, has been involved in the production of 3D illustrations for Editions SANS-DETOUR: The call of Cthulhu V7 Limited Edition AMMIRATI, intervenes in the production of a Web Series and a comic that are in progress of development.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/09/20 16:15:34


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Can someone give a direct link to where the Ludik post is? My French isn't great and I cannot find it on that site.
   
Made in us
Courageous Beastmaster




Australia

Received another email from WayofGamers -

"Thousands of products at 1 € or less

First and foremost we wanted to thank you for your record participation in the first wave of destocking the last two weekends.

With this very great success we renew the operation on

Friday 21st & Saturday 22nd September, from 10am to 8pm
Friday 28 & Saturday 29 September from noon to 8 pm

Always at 150 rue du 8 MAY 1945, 69100 VILLEURBANNE

On the menu thousands of products at 1 € or less (Blisters of figures, Accessories for board games, Boosters of playing cards, Card protectors, Collectible figurines, Games, ...

But also many references found and added Star Wars, Helldorado, Dystopian War, Confrontation, Anima, ... at prices shattered!

Limited edition treasures have been found on the Role Playing Game, ...

Accepted methods of payment are Paypal, Cash and for professionals only checks"

Nothing too out of the ordinary here, just the follow through. Does seem that they have had a previous relationship with Sans Detour before though. Too bad I don't live anywhere near where they are as being able to pick up some bargains would be great.
   
Made in gb
Using Object Source Lighting







Ludik IIRC had loads of individual codes since they also sold not only confrontation blisters but also the minis individual parts. I havent checked them in years though.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

Last month Joss from Sans detours drop by Vraiforum, asking the longt-time Conf community there for their opinions on the most representative spells for each faction so he could factor them in to the rules for Resurrection.

Anyhoo, he dropped these nugget of info last week:

"- The rules are finalized. No options (spells, miracles ...)
- The first beta tests will begin soon.
- We will then open the Field Test (generalized beta tests) in preview to the backers of the Celbration Box of Confrontation Classic as we announced,
- Then in a more general way during the next year.
- Finally we will make the rules of Resurrection available when the KS Confrontation Classic is delivered so that the backers can test the new rules with the figures contained in the Box."

Good to see things moving along.

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




 .Mikes. wrote:
- The rules are finalized. No options (spells, miracles ...)
He said that the rules are finalized but that the options like spells/miracles are not finalized yet.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

Apologies, you're right.

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




It's interesting to see that there is time and resources to pour into rules for Resurrection when backers were told time and time again that these things were not available to produce a single miniature for the Kickstarter. Joss is the leader of this project, and he does not express an understanding of the terms he is using when talking about miniature projects. He, and Angel Giraldez, both talk about master miniatures in the most recent update here https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2299683 " target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2299683 . But when asked what they really mean by "master model", he stated;

"Well... Angel will be painted first casts in resin of the original sculpts.
The us of the word "Master" is a bit confusing, even for us sometimes so let's not use it anymore ^^
They are resin casts."

This is not the common understanding of what a "master" model is, and he admits that he is confused by its use. These are pretty basic terms for miniature games and between this and some other issues - like changing the ability names (Living Dead becomes Undead, Hard Boiled becomes Tough) while not writing a new rulebook - does not instill confidence in me that this game will go over well.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

not that I don't still think this is going to come to a messy end (at least for the plastics),

but writing rules is basically something that can be done 'free' by them in whatever spare time they have (although they're probably drawing on the KS cash as salary by now),

unlike making minis, especially plastic ones which cost money

 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

From Angel Giraldez's instagram page.


The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Following the progress of the project is hilarious. Sans Detour cannot settle on terminology for these miniatures, as shown in the following conversations:

Spoiler:







This is an older post from them:




And these are posts from this last week:




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/18 13:29:36


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, TX

Oh Sans Detour...

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

Amazing that "master" is confusing to them. It's not like some kind of commonly used term or anything... Doesn't inspire any confidence, really. Of course, there were many other warning signs for me, which is why I didn't back this one. Hope it works out for those that did, though.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




It's not just that "master" is confusing them. It's that they had this pointed out and clarified, then said they wouldn't use the term again, only to use it again within a month. They know what they are doing, and they are choosing to promote a more interesting product than they are delivering.
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Shouldn't be surprising that Sans Detour hasn't been paying royalties to Chaosium for *two years*.
https://www.chaosium.com/blogstatement-about-ditions-sansdtour

Statement about Éditions Sans-Détour
Posted by Michael O'Brien on December 08, 2018

Éditions Sans-Détour (ESD) has long been a valued Chaosium licensee, releasing a range of beautifully produced Call of Cthulhu materials in French.

ESD's license for Call of Cthulhu expired in September this year. It is with regret that we announce that Chaosium shall not be renewing ESD's license for any products. ESD's permission to use our trademarks, logos and all related intellectual property has been withdrawn.

As fans of Call of Cthulhu, you deserve to know our reasons why sadly we cannot continue this relationship.

In a nutshell: ESD has not paid Chaosium any royalties on any of its sales since late 2016.

Chaosium has patiently tried to work with ESD during this time; however, to date we have not even received any sales data for the past two years, let alone any payments on outstanding royalties. (Not even on crowdfunding projects like Les Masques de Nyarlahotep et Le Jour de la Béte, which are straightforward to calculate and pay).

Last month Chaosium made it clear to ESD that the license had expired and would not be renewed. ESD were advised they are in cardinal breach of its previous license - nb this would have been grounds for immediate termination of the license, if it had not already expired.

Chaosium does not want ESD’s failures to perform its contractual duties to result in you the fans not getting product you already paid for on ESD’s crowdfunding campaigns.

We are willing to work with ESD to enable it to fulfill its crowdfunding obligations to you. However, at a minimum ESD needs to pay Chaosium the royalties it owes under its licenses. Unfortunately, to date, we have received nothing - not even from crowdfunding campaigns completed in 2017.

EDS's failure to comply with the terms of our license agreement leaves Chaosium no choice but to proceed to take legal advice on avenues to settle the substantial debt owed. As Éditions Sans-Détour has long been a valued part of the Call of Cthulhu family, we are saddened that we have been unable to resolve these matters in a constructive manner.

Going forward, Chaosium has a new licensee for Call of Cthulhu in French. A formal announcement will be made shortly.

Michael O'Brien
Head of Licensing
Vice President - Chaosium Inc.
www.chaosium.com


*****

Also, Hysterical Games, the resin caster of the Collector Edition modesl, has closed its doors. :
https://www.facebook.com/HystericalGames/posts/2204137696469870
https://miniset.net/cfp/Kickstarter-573375732/updates/9
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2346058

*****

From the comments:

HaleysRedComet
about 2 months ago
I agree and want to post my screed here about it again:

So, let's think about this. I, and I believe most people here, want the return of Confrontation. CMON dropped the ball on this when they held the rights. They teased Phoenix edition through a different project and never delivered on that, and now SD holds the IP rights and plans to bring the game back via Resurrection. So far, so good, I think. We got a company who is actually doing some work to bring the brand back. Awesome.

OK, so back in early 2017 SD announces that Classic and Ressurection will be something they are working on, and at some point Classic will be a Kickstarter project. Awesome. I'm jazzed about this, I love this game and the minis and can't wait to see how SD does with it. Then... not a lot happens. As the project draws closer there is a poll for characters to be included with the pledge, actually pretty cool. Get the community involved, good idea. But then...

Mostly silence from SD. People, in general, don't get responses to questions on the FB. One thread in particular had a ton of pretty basic questions - what's the pledge structure, etc... - but the only question that was answered was someone asking for SD's Twitter account. So, we know SD is seeing these questions but ignoring them. I'm not saying I was expecting detailed answers, but a simple "Wait and see" or "This is the basic idea" would have been nice. This would be a trend that SD continues to this day - they mostly don't respond to social media inquiries.

Anyway, the KS launches and funds in 2 hours. It raises about 650K Euro. Awesome. But then... people start asking questions and looking closer at things. The minis will be PVC with ABS weapons, similar to what Wrath of Kings does. Personally, this doesn't make too much sense to me, as my metal Confrontation minis tended to have stability issues with ankles more than anything else. But, this is the project SD wants to do. So, we will have PVC and ABS. The issue of quality comes up again and again. It's answered, but because a prototype isn't shown people don't believe it. We are told to trust SD, many backers do because they've delivered on their RPG projects before. SD posts and update saying they can be trusted because they've made products before. OK.

So, we are 3 days from the end of the project and it is down to about 461K Euro right now. That's nearly 200K lost and about 66% of what it was at the height of funding. What happened? Here's where I am going to get really critical: Sans Detour barely worked on this project.

The project launched with over a year of planning able to go into it. What we saw was pictures of the old Rackham minis - the same ones used in their catalog and on the mini's cards. There's even art used in a few situations instead of miniature images. That's weird. Not a single model was ever cast by SD. They're offering a resin pledge, people thought maybe SD made some of those minis. Nope, I confirmed that they were leftover from old Rackham. SD then doubles down on this and states that they are unable to produce a mini they have made, that it is cost prohibitive. I have never seen a single miniature company using KS that has said this. So then people start asking to see how they will scan the masters into a computer, as SD stated they will do this to make molds. Nope, again. So we are left to conclude that Sans Detour has not done -any- work prior to the KS campaign to show people what they plan to produce. They said they've made calls to factories. That seems like it is enough for some people.

Then, we get into the weird grey area of how business ownership and partner companies. In an update, Sans Detour stated they would use Ludik (with whom they share an owner and address) for logistics on this project. They stated that, if Ludik were to go under, they wold simply switch to a different company. So, in a comment, it was disclosed that Ludik is now controlled by a liquidator. I don't know how this wasn't known before, it's a huge red flag. Then, we also find out that Stellar Licensing, the company who owns the IP, only owns the Confrontation IP as their single asset and is owned by the financial Director of SD. Again, kind of weird.

So - in the year leading up to this project, the only prep work done was to photoshop existing images together, make a choice of minis featured, and contact factories. That is, observably, the only work done by SD leading up to what they hoped (looking at the stretch goals) would be a million Euro+ project.

This brings us to the current situation. Sans Detour, the account, is barely involved with getting information out. Instead, Joss - the project manager - has his own account and comments, while other collaborators - who are friends of the project and not SD employees - also give official information. The collaborators get all their info from SD directly, so if they don't have the answer to a question and want to answer it, they have to ask someone. Fine so far. But - we have seen that some of the collaborators have berated and ignored people who have questions or concerns about the project. It's also apparent that there is no native English speaker who works on this project, which sometimes causes misunderstandings. It's a small issue, but for a company to launch a large project in English without a native speaker seems like a mistake.

It also came out that SD was not able to produce game play videos of the game they are pitching, which was a request frequently asked of them. I asked a collaborator about this and was told that there are only 2 players around their office and they had no time to record. I don't see how, in the year they had to prepare for this, they couldn't run through a game and take pictures or record. That doesn't add up to me, and makes me think this project wasn't taken seriously by SD from the start.

It would appear that SD thought it could put together a project for a game that hasn't been produced in about 10 years and expect that people would be willing to buy a 300 Euro box of minis without even seeing how they might look in the material they will receive them in. Next to no prep work was done, and SD seems to be happy with the fact that it passed it's goal at all despite the fact that it lost 1/3 of it's funding so far. SD plans to launch a new edition of Confrontation next year sometime. No one has seen any work that has gone into that so far, so we are left to conclude that as much effort will go into that project as went into their current one. Which is to say - not much at all.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/12/11 00:52:57


Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Honestly I at least hoped backers would get their models in the quality showed ; it sounds like SD is going from bad to worse, although some of it might not be them it sounds like their house of cards is crumbling away. Their two resin companies closing doors/not trading with them in quick succession isn't good though in theory they can secure another - however the talk about them not paying royalties is very worrying to say the least. Holding back on such payments is clearly not ethical business practice and, as shown by the licence not being renewed, a very short term view of things.

Of course this speaks greatly to them not having much finances to work things; which fits with the lack of any preview of models, masters or anything that they had for the Confrontation KS.
I just hope SD doesn't try another KS - though with the amount of bad news they've now got against them I'd be shocked if they could carry one off and have it fund at all.


It's probably going to be about the only time I can actually look at an official licence holder in this market and an illegal recaster (the Ukrainian company) and actually end up in a situation where the recaster is coming off more professional and successful and where I feel more trusting in them. Not to mention that the recasting firm stopped recasting and is now casting and running their own game.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






This keeps getting better and better.

   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




Hope the best for those that bought in.....but it did seem they were selling a pipe dream and a big reason I did not buy in.

Not to mention I already own almost all the old models in metal.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Yeah, I hope the backers don't get screwed but I'm not holding my breath. This kickstarter had more red flags than any I saw since the Heroquest 25th anniversary board game... and that years late example wasn't exactly turning out great last I checked either.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 warboss wrote:
Yeah, I hope the backers don't get screwed but I'm not holding my breath. This kickstarter had more red flags than any I saw since the Heroquest 25th anniversary board game... and that years late example wasn't exactly turning out great last I checked either.


Thing is if it had been any other start up company doing a brand new line of models the red flags would have worked. The problem is this is an established name so that already gives it some street credibility even though the company behind it is pretty much new and hasn't got a glowing track record.

I've seen other KS run FAR better in the early days and still come unstuck in a big way (Drake a Dragon Wargame burned 2 KS and a hefty chunk of cash and yet they had masters, moulds, models, artwork - everything).

This one looks like its running on a wing and a prayer, esp since its tied to a former KS which is linked to a licence for which the company hasn't paid any royalties for in 2 years. That to me says that their finance problems are VERY deep. Sadly it might even be that the best one can hope for is that another company buys into it; but even then why front-load a company with bad KS and a huge reputation loss before its got anything for the shelf.



Heck Wayland Games (under Warcradle Games) bought out Spartan Games and its taken a year or more and they still haven't put anything new in production in that time frame. And that was a formerly functional company, imagine the mess of taking over a KS campaign or two if the owning company goes into administration.

(note WC have produced limited ranges of classic models as they've been mould testing the original material; however they also decided to revamp the range so they've been a bit slower although they are beta testing rules right now and have several masters seen in the wild so there is progress - its just to show that taking over a dead/near dead company is rarely simple)

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Professional




Nottingham, England

At some point surely people start thinking before backing ? Reading the main statement , once legal action begins to get that royalty money then SD are going to struggle to pay fur anything, in all likelihood they don’t have the money which means administration. The campaign over promised and over extended.

This has red flags all over the place. Hopefully backers get something but realistically , probably not. Been in a KS where similar happened and the new company that bought the dead one just washed its hands of backers and then wondered why the game died slowly.
   
Made in us
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

Despite not doing much with Dystopian Wars yet, Wayland/ Warcradle have been pumping out new Wild West Exodus releases pretty regularly, another game that they acquired from a company that was slowly running it into the ground.

That's in addition to bringing the back catalog up to speed as well as starting up a line of themed terrain as well.

The game gets overlooked enough as it is.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






 TwilightSparkles wrote:
At some point surely people start thinking before backing?


I'm still waiting for the 5th Anniversary version of the 25th Anniversary version of HeroQuest.

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yay, some news.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2374546


Dear backers,

In spite of our efforts, the two successive defections of the partners who were taking care of the production of our resin Collector’s Choice will not allow us to get you these models in time for Christmas as we had planned to.
We have received the first part of Hysterical Games’ production and we’re waiting for the now rapidly forthcoming second part.

As soon as we receive this second part, we’ll proceed to a first wave of shipping for those of you who had ordered these models.

For models which were originally supposed to be produced by GRX, we’ve set up a collaboration with a new partner, who has assured us that they’ll be able to produce what was missing in a few weeks’ time. We don’t have the exact date for the completion of this production, but as soon as this information is known to us, we’ll pass it along to you. Once completed, we’ll proceed to a second wave of shipping in order to complete these orders.

We’re clearly aware that many among you were hoping to get these magnificent pieces to be able to gift them for Christmas, and we’re saddened that this can’t be the case. In order to allow you to still mark the occasion for the holidays, however, Olivier has prepared small festive cards to announce the arrival of these collection models (downloadable here)

To finish, these collection models will also be added, in early 2019, to the Sans Détour online store. You’ll thus be able to preorder them and they will be shipped once the order of all backers who have chosen the “2018” option have been delivered.

We wish you all happy end of the year holidays, and will return early 2019 with news about Confrontation Classic and Confrontation Resurrection!


Basically, no shipping for the collector resins for Christmas, because well you know, what happened to Hysterical Games.

Also, Sans détour will put on "pre-order" sale the collector resins on their shop online for early 2019...but they assure those who will order that way won't have their stuff before the backers who pledged for them.

Sounds like they're desperatly trying to get more money quickly...

And to be honest, seeing that they are in trouble not only with Chaosium but also another Ulule crowdfunding project "Aventures", where the author Mahyar is asking them to pay for author rights and Sans détour accuse him of not delivering a contract and thus freezing the project...now it looks like it will go to justice as well.

Source for Aventures debacle : https://fr.ulule.com/aventures-le-jeu/news/communique-201354/ and Mahyar's answer (in french) : https://twitter.com/MJmahyar/status/1076481485992091654
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





What happened between SD and Hysterical Games?

Insidious Intriguer 
   
Made in de
Experienced Maneater






 Mysterio wrote:
What happened between SD and Hysterical Games?

Hysterical closed shop. Not SD's fault for once.

   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: