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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I dont think Ynnari will get much extra love and Eldar will gain large amounts (like Chaos and SM).

Ynnari being "just SFD" to me makes sense, 1-3 extra Stratagems maybe. Tho i dont see more than 3 coming to them.

I see some Formations..... Units Synergy bonuses tho.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/17 02:50:54


   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Amishprn86 wrote:
Ynnari being "just SFD" to me makes sense, 1-3 extra Stratagems maybe. Tho i dont see more than 3 coming to them.


I'm sure Warlord traits as well. But yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I suspect much like Deathwing and Ravenwing, the Ynnari in the index already have their "chapter tactics". They'll probably get a little polishing up but I suspect the various Masques/Craftworlds/Kabals will have a major boost in comparison.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's worth noting that unless the Craftworld Eldar codex explicitly addresses Ynnari, Ynnari armies will be able to take advantage of Craftworld Tactics at least until they get their own update. So far, all codices released have only cared whether everything in a detachment has the same <subfaction> keyword. Eldar units don't lose these keywords when they gain YNNARI. The only wrinkle is that, per the FAQ, the warlord must be one of the 3 Ynnari HQs, but this just means that Yvraine needs to be in a different detachment than your Craftworld units which you want to give a tactic to.

I guess it's also interesting that so far every codex has had two kinds of army-wide special rule, in addition to Objective Secured. There's one that the whole faction gets and then another for each subfaction. So Space Marines get ATSKNF, regardless of subfaction, and then regular Marines get Chapter Tactics while GKs get their psychic bonus and daemon flavor rules. Chaos Marines all get Death to the False Emperor, and then each codex Legion gets traits while Death Guard get their rapid-fire thing. Mechanicus has Canticles and dogmas. So it seems to me to be entirely possible that Strength from Death is intended to be only a replacement for the faction-level rules like Battle Focus and that a later Ynnari release will add another rule on top of it. Of course, it seems unlikely that Ynnari merit their own whole codex, and we haven't seen how any of these really minor factions will be handled yet.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/19 00:18:03


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I dont think Craftword will work with Ynnari.

   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

I hope not. Ynnari would have worked better as a stratagem or a formation and not an actual 'faction'

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




It is in the index so people can play it from the get go.
I doubt they will be covered much in the craftworld codex.
I think a formation of strategem would have been good. But then you still need to cover off on the three characters.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I don't know if Ynnari will be included in the CWE Codex, but if they are, it would be interesting to see unit options for them other than just the Special Character HQs. Like being able to take some kind of Ynnari captain or a lesser Ynnari Psyker than Yvraine might be interesting. OTOH, Revenant Discipline powers are really strong, so it might not be possible to make a cheaper character have access to them and still be balanced.
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Blazinghand wrote:
I don't know if Ynnari will be included in the CWE Codex, but if they are, it would be interesting to see unit options for them other than just the Special Character HQs. Like being able to take some kind of Ynnari captain or a lesser Ynnari Psyker than Yvraine might be interesting. OTOH, Revenant Discipline powers are really strong, so it might not be possible to make a cheaper character have access to them and still be balanced.

There's no hint of Ynarri coming with the CWE codex.
The index is pretty much all that is needed for Ynnari to work. So I think they'll only release a codex if they release new models, and I could see GW flesh out Ynnari in 2018 with a few brand new units.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Hi guys, I'm going through a bunch of army options at the moment, after a long hiatus from the game. Have mostly been considering starting a new Chaos army (because I get the option of custom building monsters, while also getting tanks and walkers to build and paint ), but before I start investing money I decided I'd give my old Eldar force I chance to shine.

I know that the new codex is meant to be upcoming in a couple of months, for I believe just Craftworld (so no dark eldar) so I might hold off any big decisions until then, but I just wondered how things had changed since I played eldar/dark eldar back in... 6th? I think it was.

For instance, glancing through the index... Eldar and Dark Eldar seem slower than other armies. I mean individual models are pretty quick, but other armies seem to get options like -

Terminator deep strike
Obliterator deep strike
Valkyrie grav shute (which is even better as you can move after it)

Eldar are stuck with standard wave serpent spam (yaawwwn)... and nothing else? Except for on fragile units like striking scorpions. Always seems odd to me that the ancient race of psykers and delicate advance technology, were also the only one that couldn't teleport their heavy troops into the fight.

I guess I only think of this because I remember the days of the dark eldar webway portal, which also seems to have been removed? So dark eldar also seem reliant on their vehicle spam or footslogging.

The reason I put eldar to one side was because wave serpent spam bored me (I only bought 2, which was the most I wanted in a list), but it was the only way to be vaguely competitive. Seems that nothing has changed?

However, going from what other armies have gotten in their codices so far, there's a chance for a strategem of 1CP allowing a unit to be set up anywhere on the board. It's still worse than deepstrike though, as it happens before first turn and so if the opponent goes first they can just shoot everything at that unit.

I'm going to read through this thread and see if I can glean any interesting builds that inspire me though. I like eldar in theory, I prefer Iyanden Psyker lists, lots of wraithguard and warlocks, so the relatively new wraithblades interest me, but being forced to footslog all those expensive and rare wraith units is... bizarre, fluffwise.

I mean, even space marines can drop-pod in their far less rare dreadnoughts. But the fallen heroes of a dying race have to walk across the battlefield...

edit: I think I forgot to get to my point... I'm so tired... but if anyone has any advice or feedback (especially regarding my hope for a wraith heavy psyker list) please let me know

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/26 19:47:18


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




NC, USA



Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Chippen wrote:


Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.

Sucks if you don't like Serpents basically. Because it seems to be they're the only thing worth taking alone and the only thing that makes other units usable.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Massachusetts

pm713 wrote:
 Chippen wrote:


Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.

Sucks if you don't like Serpents basically. Because it seems to be they're the only thing worth taking alone and the only thing that makes other units usable.


What is there not to like about Serpents? Just the looks of them, or you don't want mechdar?

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius

Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Unfortunately the army is simply designed to require Serpents. We have a bunch of expensive, fragile, short-ranged infantry. Our only decent basic Troops choice costs twice as much as a Guardsman, dies just as easily, and shoots worse outside of 12". You're obviously not supposed to be deploying this stuff on the table. It is hard to see what could possibly be done with Guardians, Dire Avengers, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Wraithblades, Wraithguard, and even Dark Reapers that would make you not really want to stick them inside of a transport if for no other reason than to protect them from a first turn alpha strike. Maybe you could get away with footslogging Wraithguard or with deploying Dark Reapers into cover against armies without much shooting. Rangers and Striking Scorpions are literally the only non-jump non-character infantry units in the index that don't want to start in a transport, and that's because they deep strike (also I think both should probably strongly consider taking a Serpent anyway).

And, like, we'd put Shining Spears in Wave Serpents if the rules allowed it!

I don't think this is an internal balance thing -- you're not really "fixing" this without making Wave Serpents stupidly expensive while slashing infantry prices to the bone such that Eldar become a horde army. It's just never going to make sense to try to run up the field with a unit where every T3 4+ dude has a melta gun. Other armies can either be priced as hordes, where they expect to lose half of their guys on the way in, or they have ablative wounds so that Devastators, for example, can deploy on the table and not lose half their value to a couple of anti-tank weapons.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/26 20:55:03


 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Chippen wrote:
Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

I suppose you didn't play during 7th edition…

Wave serpent, dark reapers and hemlocks are indeed really needed to make a competitive Eldar list at the moment.
But the codex is at most 2 month away. The guard codex previews mention a point reduction for the Leman Russ (which is currently very weak), so there is hope that GW will address some of the CWE codex' issues.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Gangrel767 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Chippen wrote:


Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.

Sucks if you don't like Serpents basically. Because it seems to be they're the only thing worth taking alone and the only thing that makes other units usable.


What is there not to like about Serpents? Just the looks of them, or you don't want mechdar?


I don't dislike them per se, but I dislike the idea of spamming multiple of the same unit. Boring to build and boring to paint and boring to play.

Mechdar is fine with me, but I'd prefer to run a variety of units. I know falcons and prisms are seen as pointless right now though so I doubt I'd buy any of those...

The other things I have issues with are that eldar are super fragile and a dying race etc... so why do their war walkers have their controller strapped to the front of them like a sacrificial lamb? Doesn't reflect in the rules, but makes the models look wierd. They've always been a good unit but I coudlnt' bring myself to buy any. Might look into an alternative model though, or perhaps a conversion opportunity...

Edit:
Extra question. I know that YNNARI does not allow for haemonculus units, but does that only count for the YNNARI detachment, or does it mean that if you have any ynnari at all then you can't have haemonculus units at all, even in a different detachment?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/26 23:52:51


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Niiru wrote:
 Gangrel767 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Chippen wrote:


Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.

Sucks if you don't like Serpents basically. Because it seems to be they're the only thing worth taking alone and the only thing that makes other units usable.


What is there not to like about Serpents? Just the looks of them, or you don't want mechdar?


I don't dislike them per se, but I dislike the idea of spamming multiple of the same unit. Boring to build and boring to paint and boring to play.

Mechdar is fine with me, but I'd prefer to run a variety of units. I know falcons and prisms are seen as pointless right now though so I doubt I'd buy any of those...

The other things I have issues with are that eldar are super fragile and a dying race etc... so why do their war walkers have their controller strapped to the front of them like a sacrificial lamb? Doesn't reflect in the rules, but makes the models look wierd. They've always been a good unit but I coudlnt' bring myself to buy any. Might look into an alternative model though, or perhaps a conversion opportunity...

Edit:
Extra question. I know that YNNARI does not allow for haemonculus units, but does that only count for the YNNARI detachment, or does it mean that if you have any ynnari at all then you can't have haemonculus units at all, even in a different detachment?


You can have any other detachment along side Ynnari, only the Ynnari detachment(s) follow the no "coven, Drazhar, Mandrakes" rules.

On a side note... Drazhar is Incubi, but Incubi can be Ynnari... also the fluff i would assume Incubi would hate the Ynnari?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Niiru wrote:
 Gangrel767 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Chippen wrote:


Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.

Sucks if you don't like Serpents basically. Because it seems to be they're the only thing worth taking alone and the only thing that makes other units usable.


What is there not to like about Serpents? Just the looks of them, or you don't want mechdar?


I don't dislike them per se, but I dislike the idea of spamming multiple of the same unit. Boring to build and boring to paint and boring to play.

Mechdar is fine with me, but I'd prefer to run a variety of units. I know falcons and prisms are seen as pointless right now though so I doubt I'd buy any of those...

The other things I have issues with are that eldar are super fragile and a dying race etc... so why do their war walkers have their controller strapped to the front of them like a sacrificial lamb? Doesn't reflect in the rules, but makes the models look wierd. They've always been a good unit but I coudlnt' bring myself to buy any. Might look into an alternative model though, or perhaps a conversion opportunity...

Edit:
Extra question. I know that YNNARI does not allow for haemonculus units, but does that only count for the YNNARI detachment, or does it mean that if you have any ynnari at all then you can't have haemonculus units at all, even in a different detachment?


You can have any other detachment along side Ynnari, only the Ynnari detachment(s) follow the no "coven, Drazhar, Mandrakes" rules.

On a side note... Drazhar is Incubi, but Incubi can be Ynnari... also the fluff i would assume Incubi would hate the Ynnari?



Ahh thankyou. Just considering units I would like to build/paint/convert. Grotesque, talos/cronos, avatar maybe... I tend to prefer the big stuff haha. Lot of them dont seem overly worth it though, at least until a codex turns up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Out of curiosity, as they're models I like (with fluff I like), how usable would a force be made up of:

5x Wraithguard with wraithcannon
5x wraithguard with D-Scythes

Each with their own wave serpent transport, and character support of choice. They're pricy units, but I like the models for some reason. And as they would be using up my only two wave serpents, the other units on the board to accompany them would have to be... jetbikes of some sort, or warp spiders, or swooping hawks. Which happen to also be units I like, in theory anyway. I'd also include rangers, which are also model I own that I like the paint job on. And Dark Reapers.

I'd even consider adding 5x Wraithblades with swords to the army, if there was a way to field them...


Any tips on this approach would be appreciated. I don't expect it to be tournament competitive, I only play friendly games, but I'd like to be able to win against a decent space marine, IG, or Tau player (my usual opponents).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 03:57:59


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




 Gangrel767 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Chippen wrote:


Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.

Sucks if you don't like Serpents basically. Because it seems to be they're the only thing worth taking alone and the only thing that makes other units usable.


What is there not to like about Serpents? Just the looks of them, or you don't want mechdar?

I just don't want to spam Serpents.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Massachusetts

pm713 wrote:
 Gangrel767 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Chippen wrote:


Regardless of fluff or logic, xenos will always just be stuck with ghetto versions of stuff the Imperium has.

As far as competitive choices and your list idea - Wave Serpent spam is good, and you'll need to put those Wraiths in Serpents if you want them to get close enough to do anything. Regarding Wraiths + Psykers, I don't see why you wouldn't give a unit that powerful a pocket Warlock as a force multiplier.

Other pure Craftworld competitive choices are: Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons (in Serpent), and Nightspinners are good too.

Sucks if you don't like Serpents basically. Because it seems to be they're the only thing worth taking alone and the only thing that makes other units usable.


What is there not to like about Serpents? Just the looks of them, or you don't want mechdar?

I just don't want to spam Serpents.


Completely fair. Though in my opinion it isn't spamming when it is your only dedicated transport. I do see your point though.

I'm very excited fort he CWE codex. Hopefully more things become viable.

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" - Maximus Meridius

Check out Veterans of the Long War Podcast -
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Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Take wraithblades with aze and shield backed up by a Farseer plus a pair of Wraithlords accompanying. You then don't need too many serpents. Axe/shield wraithguard with Fortune cast on them are very resilient. Add a hemlock wraithfighter, some WG in serpents (I only have 2) and you have a great start to your list. I'm really looking forward to seeing what strategems etc Eldar will get in the new codex.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Eldar have some great mobile options with the hemlock, shining spears and to a lesser extent warp spiders and jetbikes. If you are happy to play forgeworld shadow spectres are amazing as well. This gives a solid, mobile flanking force that can hit hard. Backed up by a warlock on skyrunner with conceal to tag team with the hemlock it can be super difficult to deal with as well.
Then a solid base of farseer, yvraine and dark reapers backed up by guardians and kabalite Warriors as screening units and you have a decent starting point.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 bullyboy wrote:
Take wraithblades with aze and shield backed up by a Farseer plus a pair of Wraithlords accompanying. You then don't need too many serpents. Axe/shield wraithguard with Fortune cast on them are very resilient. Add a hemlock wraithfighter, some WG in serpents (I only have 2) and you have a great start to your list. I'm really looking forward to seeing what strategems etc Eldar will get in the new codex.



How many axe/shield wraithblades would you take footslogging though? A full unit of 10? I only ask because they would use up a lot of points, if you already have 10 wraithguard and 2 wave serpents in the list
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

Niiru wrote:
Out of curiosity, as they're models I like (with fluff I like), how usable would a force be made up of:

5x Wraithguard with wraithcannon
5x wraithguard with D-Scythes

Each with their own wave serpent transport, and character support of choice. They're pricy units, but I like the models for some reason. And as they would be using up my only two wave serpents, the other units on the board to accompany them would have to be... jetbikes of some sort, or warp spiders, or swooping hawks. Which happen to also be units I like, in theory anyway. I'd also include rangers, which are also model I own that I like the paint job on. And Dark Reapers.

I'd even consider adding 5x Wraithblades with swords to the army, if there was a way to field them...

Any tips on this approach would be appreciated. I don't expect it to be tournament competitive, I only play friendly games, but I'd like to be able to win against a decent space marine, IG, or Tau player (my usual opponents).

Looks pretty solid. I normally base my armies around 2 squads of Wraithguards in Serpents. Dark Reapers and a Farseer are excellent as is the Hemlock. If you add another Elite unit then you have a Vanguard Detachment ready to go.

I run Wraithblades with Swords in a Serpent. They can disembark and assault in the same turn so delivery is not a problem. Add a sprinkling of other units to taste and you should have fun while being reasonably competitive.

I don't like the Wraithblades with axe/shield due to the price and low volume of attacks. They are priced like TH/SS Terminators but do not hit as hard and are not as durable. :( Swords can threaten most units through weight of attacks and I usually have heavy shooting to threaten really big targets. Put them in a Serpent and you are good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/27 19:11:44


I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

Ok so, something I'm considering, and that I actually have a lot of the models for already.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Yvraine + Sword of Sorrows = 132

Farseer + Singing Spear = 120

Spiritseer + Shuriken Pistol + Witchstaff = 66
5x Wraithguard + D-Scythes = 225
Wave Serpent + Twin Shuriken Cannon + Shuriken Cannon + Spirit Stones + Star Engines + Vector Engines = 173

Spiritseer + Shuriken Pistol + Witchstaff = 66
5x Wraithguard + Wraithcannon = 225
Wave Serpent + Twin Shuriken Cannon + Shuriken Cannon + Spirit Stones + Star Engines + Vector Engines = 173

5x Rangers = 100

3x Dark Reapers + 2xReaper Launcher + Tempest Launcher = 115

Hemlock Wraithfighter + 2xHeavy D-Scythe = 211

Shadowseer = 134
5x Harli Troupe + 5xFusion Pistol + 5xHarlequin Embrace = 150
Starweaver + 2xShuriken Cannons = 99

Total = 1964
(Edit: Just to say, this isn't laid out in proper detachment format, as I haven't figured out the optimum detachments for CP yet)
-------------------------------------------------------------

The units that are grouped together will share that transport. There's still a free space in each wave serpent, one for yvraine and one for the farseer. Those are a lot of eggs in those baskets though.

A lot of the loadouts are me just picking the options that seem good, so might be places to save some points. The models I don't have are the wraithfighter, and the harlequins unit.

I am actually tempted by two of those harlequin troupe + starweaver units, but I'd need to cut 250 points elsewhere. Might mean dropping the shadowseer for a troupe master.

The reason I went for the more expensive shadowseer though, is that with this list I have access to Runes of Battle, Runes of Fate, Phantasmancy and the Revenant psychic powers... which means I could pick between using smite, or using a variety of actual powers each turn, with no issue of "can only cast this power once per turn". Dont know how useful this would be, but fluffwise it sounded fun.

Any thoughts? I'd appreciate any suggestions. I suspect I'll be very weak to hordes, and I don't have much bubblewrap to stop deep strikers... but on the plus side (if it is a plus) is that the whole army is only 6 drops, and considering the rangers and the dark reapers are designed to be stationary, the "slowest" unit on the table is the wave serpent moving 16" a turn. And that's just because it has a D6 advance, vs the harlies' guaranteed 6" advance.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/28 02:18:54


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

You could save a few points by dropping the Spiritseer with the D-scythe unit (or downgrading him to a Warlock). He allows the unit to reroll 1s to hit but D-scythes hut automatically so he is not really needed here.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Surrey, BC - Canada

Well the Conscript issue is going to be less of a problem with the update in their Codex.

"Conscripts have seen some changes in the new Astra Militarum codex, designed to make them fit their background more appropriately. If you’ve got loads of these guys on hand, don’t worry! They’re still a very handy unit (particularly in the Valhallan army). Firstly, Conscripts can only be taken in units of 20-30, reducing the effectiveness of stacking orders on a block of 50. Secondly, orders only work on Conscripts on a 4+, and, should they fail, no more orders will work on the unit for the rest of the turn."

GW Regiment Focus Page

Cheers,

CB

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Karhedron wrote:
You could save a few points by dropping the Spiritseer with the D-scythe unit (or downgrading him to a Warlock). He allows the unit to reroll 1s to hit but D-scythes hut automatically so he is not really needed here.


I actually realised that in bed last night. If I decide to keep a wraithfighter in the list that will be always casting conceal anyway, so I think just one spiritseer is enough... or I could change all my wraiths to D-Scythes and then just have 1 warlock instead. Not sure how much it's worth it. Spiritseer does cast proper smite though, which warlocks cant.

I've spent a lot of points in HQ's though, which I'm not sure if I could spend better elsewhere. Not sure about the rangers and dark reapers in such small numbers being of any use, i included them because I like the models and I own that number of each.

Edit: Question - I just read somewhere that someone was interpretting the spiritseer reroll aura as only working when the enemy unit is within 6" of the spiritseer.... Where I had assumed that it was the wraithguard unit that needed to be within 6" of the spiritseer. If the first was is true, then it makes the spiritseer aura pointless for wraithguard as D-Scythes autohit and wraithcannon won't always be within 6" of an enemy as it would waste what little range they have. Still good for wraithblades though.

Which way is it? The actual rule wording is typically ambiguous. Good old GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/28 19:01:20


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

The target needs to be within 6" of the Spiritseer which is really useless for anything except Wraithblades. If you want decent rerolls for Wraithcannon models, a Farseer with Guide is a better bet.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

 Karhedron wrote:
The target needs to be within 6" of the Spiritseer which is really useless for anything except Wraithblades. If you want decent rerolls for Wraithcannon models, a Farseer with Guide is a better bet.


Wow, what an awful rule. Suddenly spiritseers are worthless except for their ability to smite. Bizarre.

I might see how I feel about losing the psychic options, and add something else that might be fun to play with. I'd still have yvraine, and maybe a farseer, and maybe a shadowseer.

Any thoughts?

Death Jester maybe?
A solitaire?
The Yncarne?

I do wonder if the two wraith units are too big of a point sink, but I do like the models I have, so I would rather drop the serpents and have the wraithguard footslog than drop the wraiths... But it seems like the wraiths+serpent combo is a hard to beat combination.


Edit:
What is the opinion on Swooping Hawks vs Shadow Spectres? I've read a few posts where people are saying Spectres seem to be amazing, and our only real answer to hordes? but the only advantage I can see is the -1 to hit (which is very good obviously), but if you compare two units of 5 :

Swooping Hawks 85pts, 10 S3 shots at 24", 20 shots at 12", ability to deepstrike. 4+ save

Shadow Spectres 115 pts, 5 S6 shots at 18", 5D6 S5 shots at 8", slower movement and no deepstrike. 3+ save and -1 to hit.


So spectres have stronger shots, but less of them, unless they are within 8" then they average the same number of shots as the Hawks. Being that close means they're in danger of getting wiped next turn by a counter attack. Plus they have to get into that range, which would probably mean taking at least a unit of 10.
Hawks seem cheaper, and able to deepstrike into rapid fire range and unleash shots without losing models en route.

Does the extra strength of the shadow spectres actually make that much difference? And make them worth their points? If so, how do you keep them alive long enough to get within 8" of a horde, and then not die afterwards?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/29 00:40:32


 
   
Made in gb
Devastating Dark Reaper




Scotland

Niiru wrote:

What is the opinion on Swooping Hawks vs Shadow Spectres? I've read a few posts where people are saying Spectres seem to be amazing, and our only real answer to hordes? but the only advantage I can see is the -1 to hit (which is very good obviously), but if you compare two units of 5 :

Swooping Hawks 85pts, 10 S3 shots at 24", 20 shots at 12", ability to deepstrike. 4+ save

Shadow Spectres 115 pts, 5 S6 shots at 18", 5D6 S5 shots at 8", slower movement and no deepstrike. 3+ save and -1 to hit.


So spectres have stronger shots, but less of them, unless they are within 8" then they average the same number of shots as the Hawks. Being that close means they're in danger of getting wiped next turn by a counter attack. Plus they have to get into that range, which would probably mean taking at least a unit of 10.
Hawks seem cheaper, and able to deepstrike into rapid fire range and unleash shots without losing models en route.

Does the extra strength of the shadow spectres actually make that much difference? And make them worth their points? If so, how do you keep them alive long enough to get within 8" of a horde, and then not die afterwards?


They also get up to 3x S6 shots each if they keep hitting. Shadow Spectres are incredible. Not used Hawks yet but don't see any great uses for them. Tried Warp Spiders recently too and found them to be lacklustre. My list is built around Shining Spears, Shadow Spectres, Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers. The other aspect warriors are mostly thrown in for fun but not expected to do much.

Space Wolves - Alpha Legion - Biel-Tan - Reikland - Lizardmen of Hexoatl - Slaaneshi Daemons
 
   
 
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