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Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




Being the guy who actually plays mostly 30k (and also Necromunda - another great game with its own ruleset) i want the game to have its own rules.

Horus Heresy was in bad shape in the past few years mostly because it didnt have any starter set. Now it will and after the set release we will see how much HH will raise in popularity. I dont expect masses but i do expect some new people to play it.

Its general consensus in the 40k community that 7th was mostly bad because of formations and codexes. 7th edition rules that HH use need a revamp (yes, they do) but they dont need a revolution.

I am not entirely convinced people dont play HH because it uses different rules. I just dont see it as the main reason. People play many different systems and they dont go around saying "i wish it had rules of current 40k".

Lets be clear - for most people 40k have more races, more everything and it just might be better for them. Why would they limit themselves? Playing HH is like playing World of Warcraft Classic instead of the most recent expansion. Its just not for everyone.

So let it have its own niche and rules.
   
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It’s worrying to see just how many HH kits are out of production, some of the primarchs and characters are gone now.
   
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Vigo. Spain.

Glumy wrote:

Horus Heresy was in bad shape in the past few years mostly because it didnt have any starter set. Now it will and after the set release we will see how much HH will raise in popularity. I dont expect masses but i do expect some new people to play it.



I mean I had no intention of ever playing HH but I'll try out with my friends with this new box (unless it costs something like 300€) so I believe it worked.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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zanzibarthefirst wrote:
It’s worrying to see just how many HH kits are out of production, some of the primarchs and characters are gone now.


This is an ongoing issue with both the website having all kinds of errors, as well probably a repackaging thing. Leakycheese on Youtube noticed a few months ago that a lot of new HH kits had a new product code - code 30 - and that this included some kits that disappeared for a while and then came back(with new product code). A lot of people have also emailed FW and asked directly, and were told that things are being repackaged.

It is NOT a sign that these kits will be gone forever. Don't panic.
   
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Crafty Clanrat




 Mr. Grey wrote:
zanzibarthefirst wrote:
It’s worrying to see just how many HH kits are out of production, some of the primarchs and characters are gone now.


This is an ongoing issue with both the website having all kinds of errors, as well probably a repackaging thing. Leakycheese on Youtube noticed a few months ago that a lot of new HH kits had a new product code - code 30 - and that this included some kits that disappeared for a while and then came back(with new product code). A lot of people have also emailed FW and asked directly, and were told that things are being repackaged.

It is NOT a sign that these kits will be gone forever. Don't panic.


Repackaged with a few price as well?
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Hsien





Gosport, UK

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
zanzibarthefirst wrote:
It’s worrying to see just how many HH kits are out of production, some of the primarchs and characters are gone now.


This is an ongoing issue with both the website having all kinds of errors, as well probably a repackaging thing. Leakycheese on Youtube noticed a few months ago that a lot of new HH kits had a new product code - code 30 - and that this included some kits that disappeared for a while and then came back(with new product code). A lot of people have also emailed FW and asked directly, and were told that things are being repackaged.

It is NOT a sign that these kits will be gone forever. Don't panic.


Repackaged with a few price as well?


That tends to just happen to everything at once.
   
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United States

Yeah like a random sitewide 20-40% price hike lol.
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

Glumy wrote:


Horus Heresy was in bad shape in the past few years mostly because it didnt have any starter set. Now it will and after the set release we will see how much HH will raise in popularity. I dont expect masses but i do expect some new people to play it.

Its general consensus in the 40k community that 7th was mostly bad because of formations and codexes. 7th edition rules that HH use need a revamp (yes, they do) but they dont need a revolution.


There's a lot going on beyond the lack of a starter set. The fact is that many people left HH behind after 8th edition 40K dropped. Formations and such may have broken 7th from a competitive standpoint, but since 8th 40K has been more popular than it's ever been at all levels of gaming. The two systems draw from a lot of the same player pool, and people only have so much time and money. Then you throw in very high prices, lack of kits in stores, resin, the eternities between releases, lack of local scenes, etc...it adds up. And since some of those issues aren't going away, I'm skeptical that a starter set -- especially if it's more like a boxed game with a bunch of HH miniatures -- is going to really change much.

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And since some of those issues aren't going away, I'm skeptical that a starter set -- especially if it's more like a boxed game with a bunch of HH miniatures -- is going to really change much.


Going solely by the leaked images, which feature a bunch of what look like plastic Horus Heresy miniatures posed on a regular playing surface rather than any sort of board tiles, this new whatever-it-is is not a boxed game like Calth and Prospero were. Just guessing here, but if GW were to try and immediately kickstart a bigger HH playerbase, a box set like this would do it. It would be an expensive set, but that's a full starter army right there. Leave out the Spartan when building your list, and you have a great Zone Mortalis force as well.

These new minis, along with anything else that may be coming, will go a long way toward relieving the "lack of kits in stores" and possibly even the "high prices" bit. And I say again: we've seen a LOT of new plastic kits from GW recently for both Age of Sigmar and 40k that aren't exactly cheap. While nobody likes high prices, I think the "Oh, collecting a 30k army is so expensive" argument may be coming to a close, and there's every possibility that soon you'll be able to put together a legion for roughly the same price as a regular 40k army.
   
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Right behind you.

I'm genuinely curious if they do a Heresy push if they'll try to hit everything. Mechanicum, Army, Solar Auxilia, etc.
   
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 gorgon wrote:
Glumy wrote:


Horus Heresy was in bad shape in the past few years mostly because it didnt have any starter set. Now it will and after the set release we will see how much HH will raise in popularity. I dont expect masses but i do expect some new people to play it.

Its general consensus in the 40k community that 7th was mostly bad because of formations and codexes. 7th edition rules that HH use need a revamp (yes, they do) but they dont need a revolution.


There's a lot going on beyond the lack of a starter set. The fact is that many people left HH behind after 8th edition 40K dropped. Formations and such may have broken 7th from a competitive standpoint, but since 8th 40K has been more popular than it's ever been at all levels of gaming. The two systems draw from a lot of the same player pool, and people only have so much time and money. Then you throw in very high prices, lack of kits in stores, resin, the eternities between releases, lack of local scenes, etc...it adds up. And since some of those issues aren't going away, I'm skeptical that a starter set -- especially if it's more like a boxed game with a bunch of HH miniatures -- is going to really change much.


And while 8th got rid of some nice gaming elements from previous editions, some of the changes cleaned up the rules and made for a lot better design space, like damage and movement stats and arguably going to save modifiers in place of AP.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm genuinely curious if they do a Heresy push if they'll try to hit everything. Mechanicum, Army, Solar Auxilia, etc.
What do you mean by 'hit everything'?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 16:30:08


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Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm genuinely curious if they do a Heresy push if they'll try to hit everything. Mechanicum, Army, Solar Auxilia, etc.



If anything it'd be nice to see some the 40k admech stuff get 30k conversion kits. There are so many great plastic kits now that would look fairly at home in 30k.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

 Mr. Grey wrote:
And since some of those issues aren't going away, I'm skeptical that a starter set -- especially if it's more like a boxed game with a bunch of HH miniatures -- is going to really change much.


Going solely by the leaked images, which feature a bunch of what look like plastic Horus Heresy miniatures posed on a regular playing surface rather than any sort of board tiles, this new whatever-it-is is not a boxed game like Calth and Prospero were. Just guessing here, but if GW were to try and immediately kickstart a bigger HH playerbase, a box set like this would do it. It would be an expensive set, but that's a full starter army right there. Leave out the Spartan when building your list, and you have a great Zone Mortalis force as well.

These new minis, along with anything else that may be coming, will go a long way toward relieving the "lack of kits in stores" and possibly even the "high prices" bit. And I say again: we've seen a LOT of new plastic kits from GW recently for both Age of Sigmar and 40k that aren't exactly cheap. While nobody likes high prices, I think the "Oh, collecting a 30k army is so expensive" argument may be coming to a close, and there's every possibility that soon you'll be able to put together a legion for roughly the same price as a regular 40k army.


Maybe a plastic Spartan helps some. But they've had Contemptor Dreads and 30K Tacticals available in plastic since the Calth box, and those didn't lead to a lasting larger player base. And those items lead to a very, very basic kind of 30K force. A WE player might be happy with a load of Tacs in Spartans, but most players of other legions will almost certainly want more flavorful (and effective) units, and that tends to be when the FW sticker shock kicks in.

I guess if you think this is just the start of a big wave of 30K plastics, then maybe that moves the needle more. I'm pretty skeptical about that, but only time will tell. I'm just not seeing 30K turn into a 'third core game' while 40K and AoS are so successful and popular. I don't think it's an accident that HH had its highest level of general interest when those systems seemed to be circling the drain. It's much more likely HH retains a sporadic, SG-level of support, IMO. But who knows, I could be very wrong. *shrug*


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
And while 8th got rid of some nice gaming elements from previous editions, some of the changes cleaned up the rules and made for a lot better design space, like damage and movement stats and arguably going to save modifiers in place of AP.


Personally, I think HH should adopt some the best elements of 8th at the very least. But they don't have the resources to make that happen (another reason I don't see a HH renaissance on the horizon...the big push gets resources), so the game is stuck with the most bloated core rules 40K ever had (and very infrequent army list and FAQ updates). I don't find 7th to be very well aligned with 30K's narrative flow toward massed battles. Give me speed and simplicity in that instance, not vehicle fiddliness and challenges and pages of similar but slightly different special rules and unit types. But obviously others feel very differently, and that's their right.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 21:20:57


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Maybe a plastic Spartan helps some. But they've had Contemptor Dreads and 30K Tacticals available in plastic since the Calth box, and those didn't lead to a lasting larger player base. And those items lead to a very, very basic kind of 30K force. A WE player might be happy with a load of Tacs in Spartans, but most players of other legions will almost certainly want more flavorful (and effective) units, and that tends to be when the FW sticker shock kicks in.


Well maybe I'm playing 30k wrong then, because my legion has probably close to 90 tactical marines and I don't play World Eaters...

Also, a lot of the HH plastics are GW Direct only, which is exactly the problem. In addition to being hard to get from anywhere other than GW itself(so no independent game stores), they're also not available at a discount anywhere. Right now I can't easily get someone else into the game without having to tell them that a lot of their basic troops are only available via online order from Games Workshop. Almost anything else for 40K and AoS you can find at some kind of discount online, which immediately means savings.
   
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I got a a display case and some White scars Horus Heresy minis. I thought that small PRide of the Legion/Chorgorian bortherhood would look pretty cool in the display case.
I need a box of Mkiv to turn my bikes into mk4 bikers and i could not at all find them.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
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 Mr. Grey wrote:
Maybe a plastic Spartan helps some. But they've had Contemptor Dreads and 30K Tacticals available in plastic since the Calth box, and those didn't lead to a lasting larger player base. And those items lead to a very, very basic kind of 30K force. A WE player might be happy with a load of Tacs in Spartans, but most players of other legions will almost certainly want more flavorful (and effective) units, and that tends to be when the FW sticker shock kicks in.


Well maybe I'm playing 30k wrong then, because my legion has probably close to 90 tactical marines and I don't play World Eaters...

Also, a lot of the HH plastics are GW Direct only, which is exactly the problem. In addition to being hard to get from anywhere other than GW itself(so no independent game stores), they're also not available at a discount anywhere. Right now I can't easily get someone else into the game without having to tell them that a lot of their basic troops are only available via online order from Games Workshop. Almost anything else for 40K and AoS you can find at some kind of discount online, which immediately means savings.


All they have in plastic is tactical squads in Mk III and Mk IV, Terminators in Tartaros and Cataphractii, one set of HQ, and a monopose contemptor. Mk VI is nice, but is a third tactical squad box. The Spartan helps, but what really needs done is a plastic Deimos hull rhino.
   
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Atlanta, GA

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
Maybe a plastic Spartan helps some. But they've had Contemptor Dreads and 30K Tacticals available in plastic since the Calth box, and those didn't lead to a lasting larger player base. And those items lead to a very, very basic kind of 30K force. A WE player might be happy with a load of Tacs in Spartans, but most players of other legions will almost certainly want more flavorful (and effective) units, and that tends to be when the FW sticker shock kicks in.


Well maybe I'm playing 30k wrong then, because my legion has probably close to 90 tactical marines and I don't play World Eaters...

Also, a lot of the HH plastics are GW Direct only, which is exactly the problem. In addition to being hard to get from anywhere other than GW itself(so no independent game stores), they're also not available at a discount anywhere. Right now I can't easily get someone else into the game without having to tell them that a lot of their basic troops are only available via online order from Games Workshop. Almost anything else for 40K and AoS you can find at some kind of discount online, which immediately means savings.


All they have in plastic is tactical squads in Mk III and Mk IV, Terminators in Tartaros and Cataphractii, one set of HQ, and a monopose contemptor. Mk VI is nice, but is a third tactical squad box. The Spartan helps, but what really needs done is a plastic Deimos hull rhino.


Mars Pattern Rhinos and Predators, Vindicators, Land Speeders, as well as the standard plastic Land Raider were all available during the Heresy. Deimos chassis would be cool, and I'm hoping, but there certainly are current plastic kits right now in the space marine range that work for 30K. (My point about 30k-era tactical marines and specifically labeled "Horus Heresy" kits still stands though, because most of those ARE "Direct Only".)

A plastic Spartan would sell really well, if that's we're seeing in these pics, and I'm certain that plastic Deimos Rhinos and Predators would sell really well too.
   
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United States

My personal wish-list for plastic support.

-Demios Rhino/Command Rhino kit
-Rhino/Predator/Vindicator/Whirlwind combo kit all based off the Demios
-MKII kit
-MKV kit
-Jetbike kit
-Bike kit
-Proteus Land Raider kit
-Cerberus/Typhon kit based off plastic spartan
-MKII Assault Squad
-MKIV Assault Squad
-Centurion/Praetor kit like the good old SM Captain kit


Unlikely wishes:

-Rescale MKIII and MIV
-Heresy era MKVII Aquila kit
-Legion specific plastic units (revisit old Isstvan era kits)
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





If GW support HH like other specialist games I think legion specific units in plastic are quite likely. Just look at the amount of faction specific plastics skirmish games like Necromunda and Warcry have received. Granted Heresy is something of a different beast due to having vehicles that would need bigger kits. But it also has its major factions share most of the core units. Legion specific kits in the same vein as the SM Sternguard, that make a unit but also come jam packed with extras that can be added to the base range would be at the top of my wishlist.
   
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Rescaling/redoing the 20+ year old Rhino and Land Raider kit would get me interested.

 
   
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 gorgon wrote:
There's a lot going on beyond the lack of a starter set. The fact is that many people left HH behind after 8th edition 40K dropped. Formations and such may have broken 7th from a competitive standpoint, but since 8th 40K has been more popular than it's ever been at all levels of gaming. The two systems draw from a lot of the same player pool, and people only have so much time and money. Then you throw in very high prices, lack of kits in stores, resin, the eternities between releases, lack of local scenes, etc...it adds up. And since some of those issues aren't going away, I'm skeptical that a starter set -- especially if it's more like a boxed game with a bunch of HH miniatures -- is going to really change much.


We all know this but wherever you want to recruit someone it goes like this:
Recruit: Ok so where do i start?
Me: So you buy several boxes of MK3 Tacticals. You could use some Cataphractii Terminators. All of this will cost...
Recruit: Isnt there like 1 box similar to Indomitus or at least Start Collecting?
Me: Nope.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm genuinely curious if they do a Heresy push if they'll try to hit everything. Mechanicum, Army, Solar Auxilia, etc.

In the long-term if HH has a large, sustainable uptick of popularity than maybe. The issue is that HH is like GW's perfect game - a Loyalist Marine vs Visually Loyalist Marine game with more expensive prices than 40k, where they barely have to pay any attention to NPC Factions (especially not stinky Xenos, uw!).

Solar Auxilia are very rare. Mechanicum aren't super rare, but you're still looking at 5/100 players at an event. Militia literally have no dedicated models but are a converters/3rd party player's dream, however how long GW would let them get away with being such is up for debate. I think it's more likely we see plastic Army Regulars before plastic SA/Mechanicum since they're the only non-Xenos army that's missing from the game and with SA already being eyewatering at £80 for 100pts of infantry, Army would almost certainly have to come in plastic.
   
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Just wait for the Primaris release to represent the super secret testing Cawl did!

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
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 Crazyterran wrote:
Just wait for the Primaris release to represent the super secret testing Cawl did!
That would be late in the Scouring at the very earliest - although we could see some of Erda's prototypes.



 Kanluwen wrote:
Solar Auxilia are very rare. Mechanicum aren't super rare, but you're still looking at 5/100 players at an event. Militia literally have no dedicated models
Locally we've got no Solar Auxilia / Army / Militia players, but do have a few Knight players. I've got Iron Hands, Blackshields & Mechanicum.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/23 14:19:18


 
   
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GoatboyBeta wrote:
If GW support HH like other specialist games I think legion specific units in plastic are quite likely. Just look at the amount of faction specific plastics skirmish games like Necromunda and Warcry have received. Granted Heresy is something of a different beast due to having vehicles that would need bigger kits. But it also has its major factions share most of the core units. Legion specific kits in the same vein as the SM Sternguard, that make a unit but also come jam packed with extras that can be added to the base range would be at the top of my wishlist.


I don’t think plastic legion specific units is all that likely unless they completely stop their resin models. There are 18 legions, each with 2-4 odd specific units. That’s a lot of plastic.
   
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Affton, MO. USA

 ImAGeek wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
If GW support HH like other specialist games I think legion specific units in plastic are quite likely. Just look at the amount of faction specific plastics skirmish games like Necromunda and Warcry have received. Granted Heresy is something of a different beast due to having vehicles that would need bigger kits. But it also has its major factions share most of the core units. Legion specific kits in the same vein as the SM Sternguard, that make a unit but also come jam packed with extras that can be added to the base range would be at the top of my wishlist.


I don’t think plastic legion specific units is all that likely unless they completely stop their resin models. There are 18 legions, each with 2-4 odd specific units. That’s a lot of plastic.


It wouldn't take much though to do the shoulder pads and accessories though. Just from what I've seen on Thingiverse and other sites they have plenty of files that could make tons of the exotic weapons, pads, helmets to upgrade certain units. There are already unit upgrade sprues for 40K chapters and most would only need this sort of treatment with older Mark armors. THen FW could continue to do special characters in resin which would free up their production schedules.

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I could see upgrade sprues for the legions for sure. But I think the actual specific units will always be resin.
   
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Yeah I agree. There's nothing more I'd love than to see them transition things to plastic (particularly as some Legion specific units are quite dated and tiny even before you factor in the inevitable MkVI upscaling), but I can't see that happening.

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I'm with ImAGeek here. I just can't see GW adding (minimum) 36 new SKUs to their catalogue of just Legion-specific HH kits. Upgrade sets, sure, but even that could pose a problem if they want to have Legion upgrades for each Mark of PA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/23 23:12:52


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