Switch Theme:

Fixing the overpowered Falcon!!!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Right, Falcons are damn unkillable, and need to be fixed. A Falcon with a holofield and a spirit stone is nigh invincable, and yesterday, 2 of these bastards shot down my 9 tornado, 3 dread, 3 whirlwinds 1500pts army. They cannot be beaten! They are cheese incarnate, even worse than the cheese of the necrons. So they need toning down. Here are my idea for "fixing" them.

1) Ban the Holofield.
2) Ban the spirit stone
3) Make them AV11
4) Tone down the guns on the damn things, the d3 strength 8 weapon is cheese incarnate! Make it 1 shot, strength 6, and ill be happy.
5) Dont make it a fast vehicle. Its a skimmer, but it cant fly 24 inches a turn.
6) Get rid of its transport capability! If a predator cant carry troops because of ammunition, than these things certainly cant! Falcons should no longer be able to transport troops.
7) Up the pts cost by around 50.

These new rules would ensure no falcons ever got taken, which would be good, they would no longer be a hideous no brainer. People would actually take the other heavy support choices. Falcons should get the fixing they deserve! They have been far too good for too long now.
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




I'm only responding to let you know that this post isn't worth a response (oxymoron, I know, but I couldn't help it).
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Actually, Falcons need toning down.

Its the "how to balance space marines" thread that isnt worth a response. Space Marines need a boost at the moment, what with all the plasma in everyones armies.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Murfreesboro, TN

And yet again, burnthexenos blames his own problems and failure to think his way around a problem on someone else being "cheesy". Marines don't need a boost, and Falcons are fine the way they are.

As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




The Falcon is 100% cheese, its unkillable. The thing just doesn't die!!

Marines need a boost, maybe AV11 all round for land speeders, and the heavy bolter should get 4 shots, like the assault cannon.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Murfreesboro, TN

Well, then I guess the two I killed with my all-footslogger Marine army the last time I played against Eldar were just a mirage, right? Just because you don't immediately and effortlessly defeat something, it doesn't mean it's broken.

You just want your speeders to be gods of the battlefield, and reject anything that gives your assault-cannon-cheese army trouble.  Give it up.


As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Look, my army isnt cheese, 2 falcons are. In fact, one falcon is. My army is balanced, it has shooting, movement, and Close Combat.

You know what, forget all the changes I mentioned above. I think I will just ban the Falcon full stop.

From now on, I refuse to play any Eldar player that uses a falcon. Or a Fireprism for that matter, those things can take spirit stones and holofields aswell!
   
Made in jp
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

*cries*  6 Dreadnought suck, it's unbeatable, I refuse to play anyone who uses them.  *cries*  Falcons suck, their unbeatable, I refuse to play anyone who uses them.  Why don't you go back to kindergarten, because your apparently not ready for the big kids world.

BTW, I have no problem killing Falcons, Wave Serpants, or Fire Prisms, and I bet I could do pretty well against the Dreadnought list.


Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

I have this feeling that burnthexenos is just crying out for attention. Nobody could actually be stupid enough to post what he posts. I hope.

ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

*sigh*

There is nothing wrong with the Falcon. The problem is the Holo-Field. That's what needs to be toned down/removed altogether. Without the Holofield the Falcon goes from being the best tank in the game to one of the better tanks in the game.

BYE

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Infiltrating Broodlord





Canada

Is the Holofield not rumoured to be getting toned down somewhat in the new codex? Something like reducing damage results to Shaken instead of just negating them. If true, that should keep the Falcon pretty unkillable, but still let you prevent it from shooting most turns.

-S

2000 2000 1200
600 190 in progress

 
   
Made in ca
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Soviet Kanukistan

Eldar Falcon - BALANCED VERSION -

Points:  350
AV-10-10-10, Open Topped:  Type:  Immobile
Weapons:  Shuriken Catapult
Transport Capacity:  25

Dude.  I fixed the Falcon for you.  Marines are the BESTEST.  Now people will take the other "good support choices"

Fireprism "Mr No-shoot Tank":  Funny how every result on the glance table takes this bad boy out of the game for 1+ turns.
Support Batteries "Mr Runaway":  Funny how killing a few T3 models all but obliterates this unit.  How many vibrcannons have you seen in the field.
Warwalkers:  The ultimate expensive shoot-me sign.
Wraithlords:  The other underpriced cheese.

Its good to know that with the Balanced Falcon(tm) the Eldar will be totally balanced!  Thanks for your wisdom there!

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Alpharetta, GA

I have one friend that regularly plays Eldar. He is very good with his list and has refined it to be a very efficient Marine killing list. The list has two Falcons which are usually dead by turn 2. I don't even enjoy killing them anymore because I know, and he knows, they are toast. I've never had problems bringing down Falcons, unless the other player hides them or uses terrain to his advantage, but that works for any vehicle. So...

1) Ban the Holofield.
Quit crying and figure out how to play.
2) Ban the spirit stone
Quit crying and figure out how to play.
3) Make them AV11
No. And see #1 and #2
4) Tone down the guns on the damn things, the d3 strength 8 weapon is cheese incarnate! Make it 1 shot, strength 6, and ill be happy.
Sorry, not going to change the game to make you happy. Anyway, I've had more problems getting shot by a LR with TL LCs
5) Dont make it a fast vehicle. Its a skimmer, but it cant fly 24 inches a turn.
24" is a big move. If it goes 24 it can't shoot and will either be out range of every weapon, or in range of a majority of weapons.
6) Get rid of its transport capability! If a predator cant carry troops because of ammunition, than these things certainly cant! Falcons should no longer be able to transport troops.
Ever hear of a Razorback? The Falcon has a reduced capacity from the Wave Serpent. Just like the Razorback has a reduced troop capacity.
7) Up the pts cost by around 50.
No.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




just glance it to a stop and finish it off the next turn for the win

Went digging through my old posts, and guess what? I've been hating on mat ward since before it was cool

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/244212.page 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Can we ban burn the xenos? Pretty please?
   
Made in us
Fierce Foe-Render





"My army is balanced, it has shooting, movement, and Close Combat."-burnthexenos


Your army is very cheesy......9 tornados, come on.......3 dreads (probably all had assaultcannons).........you must be a horrible roller, you had a minimum of 36 shots with tornados and didn't take down a single falcon.........I don't even have the much trouble with my ork army taking them down.................Falcons are tough, but it depends on how they are played or what you take against them...................and if you get first turn ......but that goes for any army or any game............quit whining and play.

Vote A) ban burnthexenos B) ban burnthexenos C) make an all Falcon army, each costing 100 points with armour 14.......

I vote C.

"No soup for you...come back one year!" --Soup Nazi, from Seinfeld 
   
Made in jp
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

It just struck me that this guy is most likely completely screwing around with us. I've met some real fools in my life, but never someone like this. A 2-14 assault cannon is regarded as ultimate cheese by just about any 40K player out there. No one will deny it as such, and then turn around and scream about these things like he does. Humanity has it's points to be ashamed of, but come on... no one can really be this out of it.

Hence my belief the guys a troll to the extreme, solely posting simply to rile the forum up. And that should be ample grounds to show him the door.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Florida

Falcons are annoying as hell but their balance is putting in a butt ton of points into a unit that can be downed by a very lucky shot.

The Eldar dont have as much as you think they do, they have to spend 50 points for a platform brightlance or starcannon. Just in this edition the real power went from wraithlords to falcons.

Just go after other units first and then save the falcons last.

Comparing tournament records is another form of e-peen measuring.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dives with Horses

BTX: I am sorry buddy, but it seems that you think EVERYTHING that beats you is cheese. I tabled an eldar army last night that had something like 14 or 16 starcannons and 2 d. cannons and a falcon, wraithlord, wraithguard and all the other 'cheese' units that people cry about.

When I asked the person I was playing against to tell me more about the falcon and he handed me the eldar codex, the first thing I said was "wow, they should probably be about 15 or 20pts cheaper."

Drano doesn't exactly scream "toy" to me.

engine

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




"*cries*  6 Dreadnought suck, it's unbeatable, I refuse to play anyone who uses them.  *cries*  Falcons suck, their unbeatable, I refuse to play anyone who uses them.  Why don't you go back to kindergarten, because your apparently not ready for the big kids world.

BTW, I have no problem killing Falcons, Wave Serpants, or Fire Prisms, and I bet I could do pretty well against the Dreadnought list."

6 Dreads is illegal, and your last comment was unconstructive, so I will not rise to your trolling.

"
There is nothing wrong with the Falcon. The problem is the Holo-Field. That's what needs to be toned down/removed altogether. Without the Holofield the Falcon goes from being the best tank in the game to one of the better tanks in the game."

The spirit stone also needs to be got rid of, and the guns toned down.

"
Is the Holofield not rumoured to be getting toned down somewhat in the new codex? Something like reducing damage results to Shaken instead of just negating them. If true, that should keep the Falcon pretty unkillable, but still let you prevent it from shooting most turns."

Sounds like a step in the right direction.

"

Eldar Falcon - BALANCED VERSION -

Points:  350
AV-10-10-10, Open Topped:  Type:  Immobile
Weapons:  Shuriken Catapult
Transport Capacity:  25"


 

Looks much better. I assume the high pts cost is because it can protect so many troops, even if it cant transport them. Not sure about the open topped though...all those troops firing from it might be to cheesy. Make it only have 2 fire points, and I will be happy.

2112, im not going to rise to your trolling. If you have nothing constructive to say, dont post.

"
just glance it to a stop and finish it off the next turn for the win"

But then the spirit stone negates crew shaken, and downgrades crew stunned.

"
Can we ban burn the xenos? Pretty please?"

Not very constructive at all.


Your army is very cheesy......9 tornados, come on.......3 dreads (probably all had assaultcannons).........you must be a horrible roller, you had a minimum of 36 shots with tornados and didn't take down a single falcon.........I don't even have the much trouble with my ork army taking them down.................Falcons are tough, but it depends on how they are played or what you take against them...................and if you get first turn ......but that goes for any army or any game............quit whining and play."

Yes, the dreads do have assault cannons, but its not illegal, it corresponds to my own force organisation chart, which I have invented, whereas the Falcon does not.

"
A 2-14 assault cannon is regarded as ultimate cheese by just about any 40K player out there."

Well not by me.

"
Falcons are annoying as hell but their balance is putting in a butt ton of points into a unit that can be downed by a very lucky shot.

The Eldar dont have as much as you think they do, they have to spend 50 points for a platform brightlance or starcannon. Just in this edition the real power went from wraithlords to falcons.

Just go after other units first and then save the falcons last."

It would have to be a very lucky shot indeed. And 50pts is not enough. It should be 100.

And leaving the Falcons to the end is foolish, if you leave them, they will kill you.

"
BTX: I am sorry buddy, but it seems that you think EVERYTHING that beats you is cheese. I tabled an eldar army last night that had something like 14 or 16 starcannons and 2 d. cannons and a falcon, wraithlord, wraithguard and all the other 'cheese' units that people cry about. "

You should have refused to play him.

"When I asked the person I was playing against to tell me more about the falcon and he handed me the eldar codex, the first thing I said was "wow, they should probably be about 15 or 20pts cheaper.""

Well then you are stupid.


 


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




number one
6 dreads is not illegal try reading the trait heed the wisdom of the ancients
if thats not good enough read the new space marine faq
if thats not good enough .. well sorry

"""Well then you are stupid."""

and how was that comment helpful?

We have better prices and better service
check us out
www.dropzoneonline.ecrater.com 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I did read the trait, you will notice it does not say and/or, just "or". This shows that you may take either 3 dreads as heavy, or 3 as elites. Not 6.

The FAQ is not official, so 6 dreads is illegal, not to mention beardy.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




"""The FAQ is not official""" What planet are you on? you have to be pretty foolish to think that official faq's from gw are not official

just face it you need to go read some more rules and grow up some

the 6 dread army is as legal as it gets either learn to accept it or go find another game to play

We have better prices and better service
check us out
www.dropzoneonline.ecrater.com 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Nope, the FAQ is not official, it goes against what is written in my rulebook and the trait description. The rulebook and the codexes are official, believe it or not, and it is only those that mattere when it comes to discussing rules.

I will refuse to play a Marine army with 6 dreads, on the basis that its illegal. I dont care if some GT judge has ruled your way in the past, I wont play against it. If we are at a tournament, I will just refuse to play you. I will not tolerate beardiness and cheating.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




then dont play the game

the FAQ is officially posted on GW'S website UPATED 8/16/06

Q: Heed the wisdom of the ancients- Does it allow taking dreadnaughts as heavy support and elites (venerable ones) or must i choose to have them as either elites or heavy support? in other words can i have 6 dreadnaughts in the army?

A: Both as  heavy support and elites! So you can have 3 dreadnaught as elites which must be venerable and up to 3 as heavy support, any of which can be upgraded to venerable.

 

there it is black and white official gw game policy

you dont belive me here the damn link read it for yourself   http://us.games-workshop.com/errata/errata.htm

 

and those faq's are official gw policy wether you like it or not

and i dont know about anyone else or where you play or how old you are or whatnot but if you were to ever accuse someone in my store of cheating that was playing by legal updated rules.. that would be the last time you ever set foot in my store.

 

before you ever call someone a cheater you had better be damn well sure you are not just being a stupid ass moron who wont read the updates

 


We have better prices and better service
check us out
www.dropzoneonline.ecrater.com 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Posted By burnthexenos on 08/27/2006 2:57 PM
Nope, the FAQ is not official, it goes against what is written in my rulebook and the trait description. The rulebook and the codexes are official, believe it or not, and it is only those that mattere when it comes to discussing rules.

I will refuse to play a Marine army with 6 dreads, on the basis that its illegal. I dont care if some GT judge has ruled your way in the past, I wont play against it. If we are at a tournament, I will just refuse to play you. I will not tolerate beardiness and cheating.

How much more offical then POSTED ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE do you want? A Red Shirt to walk up to you and slap you with the FAQ?

I had to laugh though, you call 6 dreads, falcons AND the entire necron army cheeze. You, Mr. Assault Cannon. HA
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I want it printed in the codex/rulebook. If its not, then I dont use it. If you persist in trying to use it, then I dont play you.

Drop Zone, as I dont play in your store, im not bothered. 6 dreads goes against the rules in my rulebook.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




well thats your choice.. you choose to ignore game policy fine, i have no ill will against you for that.. but then dont call someone a cheater because you dont like rule changes... thats your choice and your welcome to play like that however if you are in the right place and you do that (call someone a cheater), someone might knock you on your a$$

you want to play strict rule book only cool.. i hope you have fun.. dont enter a tournamant tho youll be wasting your money

 


We have better prices and better service
check us out
www.dropzoneonline.ecrater.com 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Murfreesboro, TN

I have it on good authority that burnthexenos is a 16yo Brit who refuses to show up at his local GW store's Veteran Nights... for obvious reasons.

He's not worth the pixels of the posts; don't bother with him.

As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I for one am glad the falcon is cheesy. Sure, it is the best tank in the game right now; however, the eldar list is a broken down old donkey saddled with some of the most useless units in 40k.

If they didn't have the falcon, the only winning eldar list (that is the only one EVER played) would have three wraithlords, min guardian quads, and an absurd seer council. I'm glad that the falcon makes mech eldar viable, because eldar would be reduced to Wraith-Ulthwe-cannon if not for the falcon.

With the new codex the falcon is getting toned down a little (the starcannon going to H-2 really hurts). Rules for the spirit stones are changing, essentially increasing the tank's value as a transport but making it easier to get a crew shaken result.

I'm confidant that eldar will be "fixed" in the new codex. Some units will get nerfed (can anyone say WRAITHSIGHT???) others will get a big power up (how could you fair to power up swooping hawks?). Looking at the results of some new codex's like codex space marines (which I think is balenced on my levels), Tau Empire (they can't quite hang with some of the uber powerful armies in the current metagame, but that is the price of being a one trick pony), and black templars (they toned them down a little. Hidden powerfists no longer smack your ICs around on a 3+) games workshop has proven that they can now release a decently balanced product.

Of the current "cheese" armies in this metagame (Iron Warriors, Daemonbomb, Seer Eldar), two come from one codex and the other is going to go away soon. 




   
 
Forum Index » 40K Proposed Rules
Go to: