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 Irbis wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.

My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).

Yeah, they have no other work, no overhead, no need to plan to produce thousands of bits at once, their job is vastly simpler. Especially seeing GW does all the design work for them and they have zero need for creative types, they can make do with merely capable of slightly rearranging 3D shapes without any need for innovation or concept work.

I like how their bits look but let's not pretend they did anything special here, titan weapons are among simplest possible things to do among all GW games and model ranges...

Since its so simple, it really speaks to the incompetence of GW when they cant even do it right. Or in this case, deliberately choose not to.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
If two guys and a few designers can be this industrious fw has no excuse honestly.

My guess is it's a question of scale - FW have to get corporate approval to release their products and produce enough to meet demand (I'm aware of the irony here). A couple of guys in a garage can do what they want when they want but often have trouble scaling up (look at Hasslefree, for example).

Yeah, they have no other work, no overhead, no need to plan to produce thousands of bits at once, their job is vastly simpler. Especially seeing GW does all the design work for them and they have zero need for creative types, they can make do with merely capable of slightly rearranging 3D shapes without any need for innovation or concept work.

I like how their bits look but let's not pretend they did anything special here, titan weapons are among simplest possible things to do among all GW games and model ranges...

Since its so simple, it really speaks to the incompetence of GW when they cant even do it right. Or in this case, deliberately choose not to.

Let's not give them the benefit of thinking it might've been incompetence, they chose not to include them so you have to buy a whole new Titan to get a mount for this gun.

Yes, that isnt in question, nor should it be.

 Theophony wrote:
I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.

Yes, there are plenty of people with these skills that aren't trying to make a buck. Having to fit stuff into a conventional production schedule is an incredible constraint. Of course, there's also the question of why GW should spent time and money making something when their audience will go around the corner and get something a few bucks cheaper, or free, but I've gotten a pretty strong impression of GW brand loyalty over the years. I mean, we know GW throws money at whatever we throw money at, hence all the Space Marines. Maybe the issue is that hobbyists are sabotaging official support by not supporting GW?

Nurglitch wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.

Yes, there are plenty of people with these skills that aren't trying to make a buck. Having to fit stuff into a conventional production schedule is an incredible constraint. Of course, there's also the question of why GW should spent time and money making something when their audience will go around the corner and get something a few bucks cheaper, or free, but I've gotten a pretty strong impression of GW brand loyalty over the years. I mean, we know GW throws money at whatever we throw money at, hence all the Space Marines. Maybe the issue is that hobbyists are sabotaging official support by not supporting GW?

God, i'd love if my lack of support of GW would actually do enough damage to them to count as "sabotage", maybe they'd get off their arse and actually try to sometimes do something nice for once.

 Theophony wrote:



I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.

I don't even have the skills, asked a friend with a printer and the print skills and was fortunate to find a file on thingiverse

It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nurglitch wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I think he is trying to point out that though you and I may not have the skills, there are plenty of people who do have these skills and make better quality designs and post them for FREE well before the FW models are available.

Yes, there are plenty of people with these skills that aren't trying to make a buck. Having to fit stuff into a conventional production schedule is an incredible constraint. Of course, there's also the question of why GW should spent time and money making something when their audience will go around the corner and get something a few bucks cheaper, or free, but I've gotten a pretty strong impression of GW brand loyalty over the years. I mean, we know GW throws money at whatever we throw money at, hence all the Space Marines. Maybe the issue is that hobbyists are sabotaging official support by not supporting GW?

Plenty of support for gw, new starter, all the titans, the new giant titan, all things players have had to buy, how gw somehow loses out when battlebling sells a warmaster arm or any other accessory for the plastic gw thing you already purchased from gw is beyond me. Forge world being inept on their side of things is separate all together. These third party's will either serve to make them more honest or simply highlight their failures by eating their lunch every time they make a mistake or take way too long to release something.

The new warbringer gun is a deviation from the other weaponry fw has put out and we all noticed, some even to their financial gain. It's also impossible to argue battlebling selling something to go with fw's latest release is bad, it's bad only for gw in that someone may not be forced to buy a second warbringer they may never have intended to own in the first place.

 Crablezworth wrote:

It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.

That doesn't sound like a nice design, that sounds like they've pretty much just directly copied the Warlord arm weapon rather than redesigning it, and you're now left with pointless ammo hoppers on the back of the titan.

FW not supplying the base is a stupid decision though, thought they might have learnt over the backlash when they weren't originally going to release the weapon sprues for the earlier titans separately. Also, the fact that it includes the unnecessary card for the weapon seems a bit daft, and maybe reinforces the theory that the Warbringer was meant to include the card for the arm mounted Volcano cannon, rather than the carapace mounted one (so it actually included the cards for the weapons it came with) but that no one at GW has really picked up that they messed that up.

Tavis75 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.

That doesn't sound like a nice design, that sounds like they've pretty much just directly copied the Warlord arm weapon rather than redesigning it, and you're now left with pointless ammo hoppers on the back of the titan.

I guess I meant nice in the sense my hand wasn't forced to buy 110$ model I don't want or need to be able to swap a single weapon. You know, nice. Ya barely notice the ammo hoppers at the back either way. I just had no intent on magnetizing those.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tavis75 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

It's a nice design too, the power thingies are built into the back of the gun itself so I can just keep the quake shell hoppers on the back.

FW not supplying the base is a stupid decision though, thought they might have learnt over the backlash when they weren't originally going to release the weapon sprues for the earlier titans separately. Also, the fact that it includes the unnecessary card for the weapon seems a bit daft, and maybe reinforces the theory that the Warbringer was meant to include the card for the arm mounted Volcano cannon, rather than the carapace mounted one (so it actually included the cards for the weapons it came with) but that no one at GW has really picked up that they messed that up.

You get the feeling that very few people there and at fw play the game. My entire sales pitch for the game to potential players is it's handful of models unlike the bigger army based games and they're modular, if fw wants to change the modular part mid stream for a quick buck it makes that sale pitch harder.

I think the volcano cannon was designed to be glued and locked in place. The conduits coming off the gun look too fragile to be swapped around and likely to be broken and lost. An easy fix for the conduits might be to instead of gluing them to the gun to use a dry fit pin to hold them or run a piece of wire along the length of the conduits to reinforce them.

Could also make new cables out of wire so don't matter.

But still WTF GW/FW?

This would be like fw releasing a new carapace weapon for the warmaster that requires bits from the warmaster, I specifically didn't glue my missile launcher down to future proof it but I'm not exactly going to buy another just to get a different carapace weapon,

@Crablezworth: Don't you already have a 3rd party volcano cannon on yours?

Nurglitch wrote:
@Crablezworth: Don't you already have a 3rd party volcano cannon on yours?

On my warmaster? No sir

No, on your Warbringer. This guy:

Ya, designer's had it up since march 1st of last year I think. Maybe one day we'll find out if the change in the new book to 90 degrees was indeed a mistake

Another vid from this guy, nice looking Warmaster (give him a follow, he frequently posts AT stuff) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahnt_S_3DY4

Damn, that looks great. Quality video as well.

https://jobs.games-workshop.com/search-and-apply/infringements-assistant?fbclid=IwAR0PBjoHkJ7bE3t-krybGVoEMU6qvV4vJD_LVl-KlZGtT-SvoQud5BtjRZE



"Sir, should we perhaps take the failure of the volcano cannon release as some kind of sign that we should perhaps change our ways, maybe even hire someone on staff that plays the game"

"nonsense, we need infringement assistans!"


I'm just hoping they fix the volkites rules before release, maybe they'll be too busy scanning the internet for people doing a better job than them for free.

The warlord one at least has beam.

"Should we try to make actual quality products that are not hideously overpriced and maybe sometimes proofread something?"
"Nonsense, it's much cheaper and simpler to hire people to get rid off any 3rd party things you can get from the internet, so nobody has any proof how easy it is to beat us at our own game."

Alternatively?

“We’ve spent a helluva long time creating this thing. We need someone savvy and sharp who can prevent sad gits trying to profit off our hard work whilst doing absolutely bugger all of their own work”

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Alternatively?

“We’ve spent a helluva long time creating this thing. We need someone savvy and sharp who can prevent sad gits trying to profit off our hard work whilst doing absolutely bugger all of their own work”

What hard work?

It takes an amazing amount of work to design, produce, and deliver the products that GW makes. The sculpting of the plastic/resin widgets is the tip of the production iceberg.

Nurglitch wrote:
It takes an amazing amount of work to design, produce, and deliver the products that GW makes. The sculpting of the plastic/resin widgets is the tip of the production iceberg.

Now imagine combining that hard work with actual product knowledge of their own game, this is the core of the problem, if fw knows they're going to be slower than the others why not at least be better? Battle bling fixed a problem fw could have simply not created and I don't think anyone who designs a nice circle owes royalties to people who never saw it as a useful thing to create to begin with. If you don't call your cool unique weapon design a volkite, im not sure gw has much grounds to do anything,

Well 3D printing will always be faster than GW - heck some designers don't even presupport and print; they put together the stl and throw it out into the world.

A good many are running on 1 month production cycles for patreon and some do show that there are issues with quality control with such an insanely fast turn around (keeping in mind these are small one person or a few people teams - not big companies with separate staff in each duty).


I'm not surprised at GW doing this and I'd wager that at some point Hollywood and Video games will also hit the 3D STL market as well - there's a good few fan-arts being sold through patreons and the like all around at present. GW is just faster because this is their entire core market; whilst for those others they are key markets for merchandise, but not their bread and butter markets.

 Overread wrote:
I'm not surprised at GW doing this and I'd wager that at some point Hollywood and Video games will also hit the 3D STL market as well - there's a good few fan-arts being sold through patreons and the like all around at present. GW is just faster because this is their entire core market; whilst for those others they are key markets for merchandise, but not their bread and butter markets.

The problem is once they're out there, they stay out there. A few years ago someone hacked into Piranha Games and stole the 3D models from MechWarrior Online, then turned them into STLs - they're still playing whack-a-mole with eBay / etsy / shapeways / etc. to get them taken down.

Oh true and its even harder with webstores based in or on servers in places like China where you can't even use DMCA and other legal powers on the website host to take things down.

Heck I know there's a few such stores pressuring the 3D designers of STLs as well. Every so often you might catch a facebook post offering "thousands of STLs for £30" and such. Or come across web stores selling masses of print models that they don't have merchant rights for or the stls themselves. Heck I've not even gone out of my way to look for such things and I've come across a few (and reported them when I did). Several were already known about by the original copyright holders; its just a nightmare for them to take them down.

This position probably has a lot more to do with the absolute fan animation C&D apocalypse that's going on right now to make room for Wardisney+ than it is with bootleg STLs.

There's currently only one official arm weapon for the warmaster titan, a third party, battle bling, offers some fantastic weapon arms for the warmaster. As there are only rules for one weapon which is the one the warmaster currently comes armed with on both arms, it seems hard to believe that this money being made is somehow at the expense of gw, which would only really make sense if battle bling sold counterfeit warmasters, which they most certainly don't. So these alternative weapon arms for the warmaster are like an after market kit for a honda civic, they also offer a really great unique alternative head. These are things we may eventually see from forge world, but just like with adorning a titan's bases with wonderful vanguard miniatures, they're going to have to tread carefully, there's plenty of third party's making great things for titanicus players to add to their bases or use as battlefield assets or alternative weapons to make their robots more unique. These are all things in gw and fw's ability to do as well, it just would look bad throwing around lawyers at individuals and companies that make the hobby better. If it's just cease and desist letters to third party stl hosting sites then fine but there are plenty of people whose offerings are remixed or different enough and who are smart enough to name them accordngly that gw really can't touch and shouldn't try to.

Who wouldn't want that amazing looking rotor cannon arm for their warmaster? Even if there aren't any rule yet for alternate weapon arms,

It's also a very predictable design space, practically labelled 'Warmaster Gatling Blaster' implied by the existence of the Warmaster. Weapons are 'plug-and-play' and have various scales of profile within broad types (volcano cannons, plasma boominators). It's a really good idea for a game.

Wow. The rotary cannon has rotary cannons. If played "correctly", that would be an *insane* number of extremely weak shots.