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Im a little late, but here is my 2p worth on the idea of a Server Reset

TL;DR: Yes. A full reset, everything goes. Just look at the map, most of the easy to access areas are completely built up, spawn is crowded and there are countless miles of tunnels stretching underground.

A bit more detailed:
I play on a public server because I want interactions with other players, I want to visit other players homes and builds and marvel at them and likewise I want them to visit and be awed at mine. I want trade to happen between players, some PvP/faction wars kind of thing with raids and battles, or hell, just to see a player once in a blue moon. Right now none of that happens. The server population is not very active, I admit but even so the newer players are pushed so far out by the sheer density of builds that and explored areas that mean they have to push further out. As has been highlighted before this leads to people having to spend large chunks of IRL time travelling to see another players build - my trip to the Frozen Mesa monolith took me about an hour and thats not even that far. it takes about 10 minutes to get to the Ulm jungle colony via netherrail from spawn, overland is near impossible. Further a lot of these close-in builds are from players who are either banned or no longer active, meaning they just sit there and take up space that could be better used.
What is more a lot of the resources in the area have been drained. I have personally plundered most of the ship wrecks in the Ulmanian and Northern seas, and a lot in the East and West Seas too. Spawners have been uncovered and claimed, and peoples tunnels extend for miles underground. Diamonds, too, have been taken, hewn from the dirt.

All this adds to the problem of population density. Take Ulm, my fortress. It has had approximately 2 visitors, that I know of, in the 3, 4? years it has been there. one of them was Jhe, and he set up his own house in the cove nearby and joined my protectorate, the other was Ralphy, and he dropped by to drop some stone off. Thats it, in about 4 years. I have personally travelled to a few other builds, but not many, and I rarely, if ever, see another player. Simply put the old builds and resource depletion is pushing the newer players further out and as these are the active players it means that the active player density has been reduced to the point that there is basically no community any more. After all, it is hard to have a community when it can take you days (IRL hours) to reach the next active player, or for some players to reach spawn.
This problem extends into the End too. I still do not have an Elytra because the End has been so thoroughly explored and locations plundered that there are almost no more of them left to find. The only place left now is the nether, and how long is it before the last of the Ancient Debris is pulled out of the easily accessed locations?
And whilst we re here what about shops at the Spawn? There are only a few plots left and I doubt many of the taken ones are owned by active players any more.

Simply put, I believe that we need a reset. A full, hard, reset. Everything gone, the old ,map wiped, the megabuilds gone. Will I miss Ulm, its great towers, its twin colossus and its sprawling underground halls? Yes, I built that place from nothing. Will I welcome the new place? Also yes, a chance to begin anew, to leave our marks on the map and have a thriving community again. A chance to rethink spawn, to have locations that do not require hours of travel to reach, resources that have not been plundered and exhausted.... A chance to build a new world without the baggage of the old.

Of course this is not my decision and at the end of the day I will stand by darkinnit's decision, but I feel it is only right to say my piece.

I'll need to visit Ulm sometime, then. I'm willing to do a trek one of these days.

On the question of density, though... I wonder if part of the issue here is that there's a sort of... 'don't mess with other people's stuff' thing going on? Like you said, there's a LOT of people who've been banned or aren't doing stuff. Maybe... their plots are free-game for urban renewal?

Also, I sort-of-kind-of like the deep-construction? Like, what I'm doing at the Mesa is basically building around the couple of folks who have bases inside, even though they've not been on in a long while. But I'm just sort of... completely touching everything in it- filling caves, digging my own underground complexes, completely terraforming the land above and around it...

I feel like we could sort of do that around Spawn as well? Go full Hive City on it, just building over and around everything. Ralphy's got piles of raw materials, as do I, and we could set up more resource systems at spawn as well for just... building.

Heck, when I finish up the walls on the Mesa, I might end up just starting that myself- sort of engulf that area with neat builds.

How did you like the Mesa, by the way? I always do like visitors.

I still do not have an Elytra because the End has been so thoroughly explored and locations plundered that there are almost no more of them left to find.

I'm in the same boat. I haven't even tried to get any shulker shells because I don't even know where to go to find them. Also, the End doesn't exactly thrill me so there's that.

The topic of a reset comes up from time to time. We're faced with one problem a reset won't fix. Lack of active players. There are at best three or four of us on at any given time. Usually there is only one. Until we see a lot more interested, there's really no incentive to do away with what is and start over.

Anvildude wrote:

I feel like we could sort of do that around Spawn as well? Go full Hive City on it, just building over and around everything. Ralphy's got piles of raw materials, as do I, and we could set up more resource systems at spawn as well for just... building.

You know me... I'd be super into this too.

I wonder whether we can compromise, depending, as ever, on how much work this all is for Darkinnit? Put the active-ish players who have huge hive-like underground areas already, on the border of Spawn, copy over the above-ground stuff and the below-ground stuff, and have a group project of "make all the warrens meet in a huge fun communal underground area in the middle."

Anyone else with big structures to copy over, bring 'em nearby too.

Then the big 'work' style group project is making rapid nether transit tunnels outward to new zones. Or potentially, even, don't reset the Nether? All the signs would be wrong 'cos the portals would take us out to virgin territory, but OK.

This is just my two emeralds' worth and as ever it's Dark's decision at the end of the day.

Mm. I know you have your gold farm to think on, but personally I think that if we're doing partial resets, then Nether ought to be the thing that gets reset first, simply because it's had such a HUGE update (and the new Nether is cool!)

I totally agree on connecting everything together properly, though. Like I said, once I've finished most of the Mesa, I'm probably going to start working out from there- major infrastructure, highways, outposts, that sort of thing.

Oh I have no gold farm... I just love the ease of nether travel, and our pretty corridors. But ya know. We can rebuild them fairly easily.

Anvildude wrote:I'll need to visit Ulm sometime, then. I'm willing to do a trek one of these days.

Please do! Im always happy to have people around, especially if they come via rail or road (Nether is a bit faster but you miss the Watch Keep)

On the question of density, though... I wonder if part of the issue here is that there's a sort of... 'don't mess with other people's stuff' thing going on? Like you said, there's a LOT of people who've been banned or aren't doing stuff. Maybe... their plots are free-game for urban renewal?

Thats actually a really good idea. There are a lot of builds around that are abandoned, either due to players being banned or just not playing any more. Stuff like the Imperator for instance, as far as I know it has not changed once since I started playing. Nothing has been done to it.

Also, I sort-of-kind-of like the deep-construction? Like, what I'm doing at the Mesa is basically building around the couple of folks who have bases inside, even though they've not been on in a long while. But I'm just sort of... completely touching everything in it- filling caves, digging my own underground complexes, completely terraforming the land above and around it...

Thats an idea, but it doesnt fully solve the issue of resource depletion. Iron is one thing, you can get it at spawn, but diamonds? Heck, even stone in some cases? Lava/obsidian? once thats gone its gone. Plus we have to remember that the new version will be changing a lot of underground stuff.

I feel like we could sort of do that around Spawn as well? Go full Hive City on it, just building over and around everything. Ralphy's got piles of raw materials, as do I, and we could set up more resource systems at spawn as well for just... building.

I like it! A massive, multi level, sprawling complex that rears up manically into the sky, and digs down deep into the earth with its fetid roots. It would be really fun to build and play in, but there is the issue of lag as well. Right now the spawn chunks really lag hard.

How did you like the Mesa, by the way? I always do like visitors.

I loved it! It was a truly amazing construction, and it took me a while to fully explore even the small bit I wandered through. The entrance system is also pretty impressive, the piston system was something else.

Breotan wrote:

I still do not have an Elytra because the End has been so thoroughly explored and locations plundered that there are almost no more of them left to find.

I'm in the same boat. I haven't even tried to get any shulker shells because I don't even know where to go to find them. Also, the End doesn't exactly thrill me so there's that.

You can still find them, waayyy out, but its a trek and half to get there. Its more the Elytra thing that bugs me, they are even rarer. I did find one set, once, but before I could use them I was tossed overboard by a Shulker shot and lost them. As far as I know, based on the map, there are no more, with very few unexplored zones and each zone requiring a tower AND a boat to have a chance of having a set, meaning the net chance is almost 0.

The topic of a reset comes up from time to time. We're faced with one problem a reset won't fix. Lack of active players. There are at best three or four of us on at any given time. Usually there is only one. Until we see a lot more interested, there's really no incentive to do away with what is and start over.

This is where the idea of server events comes in. If people are closer together it means organizing and attending events are easier. Letting PvP happen, such as an organized faction wars play, or tournaments or the like, an active market with an established economy, etc... Basically stuff to draw old and new players in.

Reworking the overworld spawn isn't a bad idea. Resetting the Nether and the End is even better given the new biomes that came out as part of 1.16.

We'd need some notice so we can pull out important things before the reset (so we can rebuild quickly) but other than that it's mostly rails and portals. Aside from the gold farm and automated piggie trader system is there anything of significance in the Nether near 0/0 ?

We should definately discuss this more.

The big thing with a Nether reset would be re-tunneling. It doesn't really seem like it, since the tunnel system is so passive, but we have SO civilized the Nether, like, to an insane degree. The New Nether, without pre-build, spawnproofed wide and clearly marked passageways is a dangerous and difficult place to get around in. Like, our tunnel system is a really impressive megabuild.

Just look at a major server like Hermitcraft- they might have the big fancy Hub areas, but a lot of their tunnels are still just bare Netherwrack. Whereas we have a whole nice network set up to add to if need be.

That's not to say that I'm not up for a reset, just that if we did so we'd basically need to immediately gather together to re-build the majority of the system. It'd be kinda fun, I think. Especially since we'd have more access to things like Blackstone and Basalt. (god I love basalt and blackstone. I'm actually really sad that the Mesa's schema is ice and snow, mostly)


As to the laggyness of spawn, I think that's probably more because of the farms and many entities around it. I've not noticed it much myself, but I'm one of those people playing MC on a gaming rig. Even Ralphy's tower doesn't lag me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ONE MORE THING!

I'm not entirely understanding this fixation you have on Diamonds, Ord. I mean, you don't need them for tools, given Villager trading, nor armor. Only useI have for Diamonds right now is using the ore and blocks for decoration. Or I guess if you're making Enchantment tables or jukeboxes, I suppose.

Anvildude wrote:
That's not to say that I'm not up for a reset, just that if we did so we'd basically need to immediately gather together to re-build the majority of the system. It'd be kinda fun, I think. Especially since we'd have more access to things like Blackstone and Basalt. (god I love basalt and blackstone. I'm actually really sad that the Mesa's schema is ice and snow, mostly)

I'd actually be willing to pitch in on this. I've got an Overworld tunnel to my base via the jungle teleporter so I can still get there even if it gets cut off from the Nether. We can focus on tunnels that connect to active players (East and West) first and worry about the others later. I guess the person we really need to ask is sirlynchmob since it'll be his gold farm that'll be nuked by a reset of the Nether.

You make a good point about the Nether network, its massive and pretty well made.It is a megastructure isnt it, and larger than any other on the server too.

It is massive but the currently active players aren't that far out and two of us connect to the Nether via the Jungle portal which is pretty raw anyway. If we are willing to put in the time as a group, we should be able to get tunnels built out to where the active players are and worry about the rest as more people join.

sadly thats still pretty far from Spawn, which was once meant to be THE hub of the server.

I blame the explorers! All those people who wanted to play with the new biomes, instead of just getting the resources to re-create those biomes manually around their own bases!


Also, I am officially done with the terraforming of the outer courtyard! I just need to finish the viaducts and wait for the ice to freeze. Now to get the walls finished, stockpile ice, and get the upper spires and arches constructed!

After that of course, I need to figure out how I'm going to do the inner courtyard, re-design and clean up the main hall (because it is severely dated- I still have stone block, fence, and torch chandeliers, for crying out loud!), and of course keep working on the underground Village.

@Ralphy

I replaced two double-chests worth of Diorite into your storage. Thanks for the loan.

I decided my Nether Portal needed a facelift. So, I stole a design I saw on Youtube.

Oh that's gorgeous, Breotan! All portals should be like this.

I love it!

So I've returned and it seems like the server reset is still being discussed. Which seems to be more people are in favor of it as time has gone on, I do support the idea of reseting spawn island entirely even the most obvious area of suburbia especially given the 'do not touch' policy we currently have around those areas.

Also yeah the end and nether are basically thoroughly built through, you have a harder time finding places there that haven't been explored. But with the underground bits, I am still unsure how we could handle the overall reset (that seems like a Darknnit question more than anything). I plan on hoping back on as I want to move all my villagers to my new castle up in the sky as I want to keep that at least a tiny bit.

It's a thing. Like, if there was a full-wipe reset, I'd be okay with that IF I could get a world download so I could keep working on the Mesa on my own. I've invested SO MUCH in it, and have such plans that I've yet to implement in it!

But if I can take the Mesa with me, I'm fine with pretty much anything.

And, handily, the Mesa comes in a nice, square package!

Anvildude wrote:
But if I can take the Mesa with me, I'm fine with pretty much anything.

It seems to me that this would be the main reason against a reset of the overworld. There are a lot of mega projects that people invested a lot of time and effort on that would be gone if the Overworld were reset. Imagine coming back after many years and wanting to pick up where you left off only to find that it was gone, BUT that some people were allowed to keep theirs.

I think we'd be better off reclaiming abandoned plots at spawn and rebuilding instead of a full reset of the overworld. One problem with that is, how much mining/tunneling has been done underneath the spawn area? I know we've got the subway but what else? I'd hate to be mining resources or to carve out room for some redstone contraption only to break through someone else's project. Another issue is that we'd need to know what is and is not off limits. Doing a teardown only to be banned for it would really suck.

Aside from that, I'm still in favor of a full reset of both The End and the Nether. I'm totally onboard to help out rebuilding there.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Im a little late, but here is my 2p worth on the idea of a Server Reset

Snip

Of course this is not my decision and at the end of the day I will stand by darkinnit's decision, but I feel it is only right to say my piece.

I think I've visited Ulm late 2020 when I was exploring the server after just joining. I'm still stuck in 2012 Minecraft. I'm useless at automation, can't redstone, don't build oretty, can't texture. Having an established world to explore was great fun.

Obviously my input is worth less than a bent bad penny because I literally don't even have a mud hut yet IIRC, but I wouldn't mind starting again if the community is active enough to give it a good go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 darkinnit wrote:
Heads up, looks like a mandatory migration to Microsoft accounts is on the way:

https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/article/java-edition-moving-house

FAQ: https://help.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/articles/360050865492

Video:

Hahahaha I still have my mail when I migrated from Microsoft to a Mojang account back in the day. Now I must go back?

Kayback wrote:
I think I've visited Ulm late 2020 when I was exploring the server after just joining. I'm still stuck in 2012 Minecraft. I'm useless at automation, can't redstone, don't build oretty, can't texture. Having an established world to explore was great fun.

First off, I also suck at automation, building and texturing. I literally use Youtube as my go-to guide on how to get anything done. When I set up my sorting system and it wasn't working properly, I had to google my symptoms and find a reddit post to fix it. Fortunately, all that stuff is out there and need or want to do something, there's probably a guide on how to get it done.

I still don't know what the heck Ulm is so there's that, too.

 Breotan wrote:

I still don't know what the heck Ulm is so there's that, too.

One of the signposts, either in the Overworld or the Neither leads you there IIRC.

 Breotan wrote:
It seems to me that this would be the main reason against a reset of the overworld. There are a lot of mega projects that people invested a lot of time and effort on that would be gone if the Overworld were reset. Imagine coming back after many years and wanting to pick up where you left off only to find that it was gone, BUT that some people were allowed to keep theirs.

I don't know how feasable it is but could darkinnit not keep the last version of the server archived on a HDD, then if somebody wants a project ported over to the new world post reset he could just rip it out with MCedit/similar and add it to the current server. Would probably be a bit of work for each port but seems like it would have few objections, current players get to keep their work and people returning after a long break (like me) wouldn't loose out.

He seems pretty dead set against resetting the Overworld for any reason.

The poor man does it for free and we all owe him for the hours he puts in to keep the server going! He has already made his position clear, can we just accept it and stop bringing the topic up on repeat for the moment?:

I don't have the time or inclination to dig into this at the moment, particularly when the update is not slated for release until mid-2021. If you start pushing for resets right now I'm likely inclined to just shut the whole thing down give a world download link and say there, find a new hoster for the new world. That's not to say I won't look into how we handle the update later in mid-2021 when the new version is closer to release.

 Breotan wrote:
He seems pretty dead set against resetting the Overworld for any reason.

Nah Darknnit is up for whatever he decides. We don't really have much deciding power he might stick to what he did last time for all we know. but I do remember him expressing how much time it took so who knows.

Though I would hate to lose all my work on my new base in the cloudes (Which i purposefully built off the ground).

But eh.

All the new stuff does make me want to play more when the new Minecraft update comes out especially with an expansion to the Y level, Copper, Mountains, new biomes. Meaning the map will probably have to get reset below Y level to some degree. I know Darknnit hates me saying that but I reasonably don't see a way we can continue with new map chunks have a layer BELOW Y, that means people would be able to build below the current map layer, which is horrendously overpowered, that means people could build the most efficent mob spawners. I don't see how we won't have to reset at some point.

But again I might be talking out of my arse right now, and angering Darknnit.

I just find it an interesting question. Especially because most of us by now are all adults some of us literally growing up with the game. I don't see an issue... (personally) of discussing it. Its not like we have any real bloody power in the decision making at all.

But I am excited by the prospects of what will happen to minecraft in the future. Its kind of like dwarf fortress. As much as I would love to play the original dwarf fortress.... I really like setting up dwarven religions that worship spoons.

Plus I don't think anyone is "LETS GET THIS DONE NOW!" I don't think so... I hope not. I just pushed for a discussion on the subject lol.

Just watched a video about the latest snapshot, and upgrading to 1.17 may require an entirely new map. It adds an extra 64 blocks above ground AND 64 blocks below ground. Everything subject to change, of course , but the current snapshot doesn't allow you to open old worlds in it, "as there is currently no upgrade path towards the new world height".

Adds? As in the bedrock is effectively 64 blocks lower than it's current position? Yea, I could see how that would be a problem. I was deliberately not exploring around my base just so I could get copper easily once 1.17 hit but if there's no upgrade path...