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Yes although those books are set 10000 years before the 40k timeline.

Especially with Caliban being totalled, would the DA not have had to look for new recruitment worlds?

This might be a good idea for a 40k background thread!

True, although they haven't touched on it since. They could, I suppose.

The current official stance on the Deathwing origin story is that it could be true - as The Rock travels, the Dark Angels change their recruiting worlds over time, and one of them at one poin t could have been a plains Indians-esque culture. Or it could be an allegory, or a half-remembered myth of some similar event but not true in every particular (specifically, the short story says that the Chapter is doomed if they fail to save their people from the 'stealers, which wouldn't be the case as they'd simply move onto another recruiting world).

Interestingly, as well as the odd feather on the miniatures, the Deathwing Company banner also references that story; "The fallen angel with the broken sword represents Two Heads Talking who is calling down the wrath of Deathwing, the Emperor's steed, down upon the Genestealer city. This is depicted by the bolt of lightning destroying the tower in the distance. The motto... reads 'upon the wings of death'".

That's an interesting theory, and fits. Would be great if GW went in that direction.

Moving on, this isn't mine and it's not one I've seen before. Someone shared the images from the Commodore Power magazine from 1992 for the computer game version of space Crusade:

I miss those days...

Are some of those space marines…female?

Almost as if it used to be a thing.

Not really?
Didn't magazines in the 90s take liberties with the game's actual content and setting?

They aren't even using bolters, except maybe for gun at the top and don't even look like marines. What chapter is that even? They're wearing white armor, but I see both Ultramarine heraldry and Imperial Fists?
Also that guy looks like Harrison Ford which doesn't really matter all that much because GW did copy Scarface, it's just funny to me.

This is what the actual game's art looked like



Different armor, actually using bolters. Different art style too.

Hello folks.

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but I recently came across a handful of Warhammer Monthly Comics from 1998, and started a small series about them on my channel.

Issue 0 and Issue 1 flip-throughs uploaded so far -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCw4toayDwE&t=7s

 .Mikes. wrote:
That's an interesting theory, and fits. Would be great if GW went in that direction.

What do you mean? That is the direction GW have gone, which is why I said it’s official.

Moving on, this isn't mine and it's not one I've seen before. Someone shared the images from the Commodore Power magazine from 1992 for the computer game version of space Crusade:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The current official stance on the Deathwing origin story is that it could be true - as The Rock travels, the Dark Angels change their recruiting worlds over time, and one of them at one poin t could have been a plains Indians-esque culture. Or it could be an allegory, or a half-remembered myth of some similar event but not true in every particular (specifically, the short story says that the Chapter is doomed if they fail to save their people from the 'stealers, which wouldn't be the case as they'd simply move onto another recruiting world).

That makes a lot of sense. If your base of operations is mobile, there's no reason to recruit from the same place, especially if that place is now on the other side of the Imperium.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
That's an interesting theory, and fits. Would be great if GW went in that direction.

What do you mean? That is the direction GW have gone, which is why I said it’s official.

I mean if they brought back the full on NA imagery.

Inclusivity is a thing. They really should. But, carefully, and with help.

Totally. Also generic european knightly order are boring.

Yeah, the cultural appropiation people seem to mostly be caucasian, and european culture is already very well represented. I would think a native american influenced chapter would be cool for 99% of people with that ancestry. I say they should bring back meso-american inspired rainbow warriors too

Prey and Turok were pretty cool games, yeah. By Prey I don't mean the System Shock clone published by Bethesda.

The thing for me is that Deathwing fits in quite naturally with the whole Marine recruitment/backstory narrative, you don't really need to make a big deal out of it.

Lots of marine Legions/Chapters recruited from pre-industrial or even pre-agrarian worlds for their warriors. Taking the theme from the Fremen and Sardakur in Dune (and actually, this holds true in real life too) people that have had that kind of very tough and violent early life tend to make very good soldiers and a great breeding ground for future initiates. The Space Wolves, think Blood Angels (?), early Dark Angels from Caliban etc. I am sure there are several more.

Having another world which is very similar to native Americans I don't think is unlikely at all. Nature and ancestor worship was very common in pre-agrarian societies, so you could completely imagine a post-dark age world in the 40k universe, that has had advanced civilisation destroyed by some kind of calamity, existing as they do in Deathwing.

 Pacific wrote:
Taking the theme from the Fremen and Sardakur in Dune (and actually, this holds true in real life too) people that have had that kind of very tough and violent early life tend to make very good soldiers and a great breeding ground for future initiates.

Eh, no. Good warriors, maybe. Not soldiers. Here's one history professor's analysis of the notion of the Fremen etc. https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/ It is a good read. Honestly, his whole blog is interesting.

That said, modern era American Indians, from the USA and from Canada, have a very long history of distinguished service in the US military.

This is such a pleasant thread. I do hope to see more vintage art. It's been a long time since I've seen some of the illustrations posted here.

OT but we're on the subject: does anyone know where I could source some native american style bits? Feathers, stringed beads and the like. I have some primers laying around I want to experiment on now.

 Red Harvest wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Taking the theme from the Fremen and Sardakur in Dune (and actually, this holds true in real life too) people that have had that kind of very tough and violent early life tend to make very good soldiers and a great breeding ground for future initiates.

Eh, no. Good warriors, maybe. Not soldiers. Here's one history professor's analysis of the notion of the Fremen etc. https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/ It is a good read. Honestly, his whole blog is interesting.

That said, modern era American Indians, from the USA and from Canada, have a very long history of distinguished service in the US military.

This is such a pleasant thread. I do hope to see more vintage art. It's been a long time since I've seen some of the illustrations posted here.

Thanks for the link to the blog, interesting read.

Good warriors is what space marines need though, the imperium supply the resources, tactics and strategy, similar to the US using native Americans successfully in their armies

The artists back then were allowed to use their imaginations more and each had a distinct style; these days they have guys that work to a brief and are happy not to be credited. I'm not saying it's not good, just different.

I think that was cause a lot of them were contracted in to do art pieces (Les Edwards, who did the Heroquest covers amongst other things, and guys like that) before GW started employing its own artists. I guess the new ones have it in their contract that their art is 'owned' by GW, whereas I can go onto Les Edwards' website and order a print of some of the GW stuff he did.

Bit of a random one, of the Space Sharks (sorry.. Carachararacharadons) - no idea for a credit or where it was used unfortunately!

Ooh, never seen that one before.

Frankly, I cannot stand the computer aided tacticool stuff that litters current books. The old stuff had an organic flair and hallucinogenic madness that does not seem able to pass marketing censors…

Frankly, I cannot stand the computer aided tacticool stuff that litters current books. The old stuff had an organic flair and hallucinogenic madness that does not seem able to pass marketing censors…

100%, it's a sad reflection on GW having become so much more corporatized than back in those more innocent times. Too clean and bland and "consumable". The classic art had the vibe of something a kid would get sent to the school counselor for scrawling in the back of their textbook but taken to the highest level. Also maybe a reflection of how nerd culture has become more mainstream and accepted, rather than speaking to the weird kids, now GW's art needs to speak to a broader audience.

This was before my time but a beautiful example of the weird sci-fi punk that I love:

 RedMesa2391 wrote:

Spoiler:

Frankly, I cannot stand the computer aided tacticool stuff that litters current books. The old stuff had an organic flair and hallucinogenic madness that does not seem able to pass marketing censors…

100%, it's a sad reflection on GW having become so much more corporatized than back in those more innocent times. Too clean and bland and "consumable". The classic art had the vibe of something a kid would get sent to the school counselor for scrawling in the back of their textbook but taken to the highest level. Also maybe a reflection of how nerd culture has become more mainstream and accepted, rather than speaking to the weird kids, now GW's art needs to speak to a broader audience.

This was before my time but a beautiful example of the weird sci-fi punk that I love:

Love this White Dwarf cover by Wayne England and in his very distinctive style and colour palette. Incidentally this was the first ever White Dwarf I saw in on a newsagent shelf and I had to have it immediately!

That one is quite evocative. There is a lot to draw you in, unlike the modern stuff.

I wonder if the move to full color for WD and Codexes hasn't hurt things.

I just brought up this bit of art in another thread.



The fact that it's sketchy and a bit amateurish makes it more evocative than something shaded with 100 layers or run through 100 photoshop filters.

Something a spacer might sketch in his notebook before getting on a ship.