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 kenshin620 wrote:
I doubt they're bigger than terminators/ogryns so no on the sentinel
Looks kinda funny without arms

Looks great to me, though I'd probably mod the missle racks to ride right at the shoulder joint. Would make it rather like Wolf Bronski's Ground Assault E-Frame from Exo-Squad, one of my favorite cartoons as a kid.

At three months after the pre-order I got my shipping notice for the Bugs.

Now I must be crazy because I'm considering pre-order for the Germans now...

 Necros wrote:
I can't help but be the impatient minis hoarder that I am, but being on their side of the fence I know it takes 100x longer than you planned to make anything worthwhile. Not really complaining .. just anxious

Except that they've been doing this long enough to know that they haven't been hitting the deadlines. I'm sure a lot of us would prefer realistic deadlines that they actually hit to the missing every single deadline by months, which they were notorious for even when they ran Wargames Factory. They keep releasing all these teaser images and renders instead of any actual updates. If they want to keep people interested they'd better get the lead out (see what I did there?)

Especially since Dwartist just posted a link to the hardsuit that Antenociti is about to release and it looks oddly familiar somehow. If only I could put my finger on what it reminds me of...




*edit* Antenocities posted a few more pics on their blog showing off other angles and scale http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/news/2012/08/i-spy-with-my-little-eye-something-beginning-with-awesome/ More detail than the defiance games, but no ideas what the price will be. Looks like they'll be close enough that you could use Defiance hardsuits for grunts and antenocities resin hardsuits for specialist suits, but that kind of depends on the price each company makes them

Let me get this right?
Space germans... star ship troopers “bugs” and Flying Debris (Alex Iglesias surname who I’ve followed for years on deviantart) killer art work somehow gets caught in the mix of this mess of this garage DIY what not to do with your one shot at miniature war gaming hohumness. (yes I know former wargames factory blablabla)

Not trolling. Please don’t kill me but IMHO… WTF is this? 1989 CG zbrush amateur night miniparade classic 5000… done in a provocative yet Ral Parthaesque style not seen since my smashed all lead wizard from the apex of random sale bin purchases at my local…
My honest advice… Just stop…
Hire a better 3D render guy, rethink following the herd into the realm of Bugs, space germans and all female armored warriors… the market is flooded with this rubbish already it only stands out in the worst possible way. You can cast in plastic and this is you’re “A” game.

I’m just saying what the majority is thinking. Mantic already has a lock on GW copyright transgression as a business model… but this is like way worse… I honestly mean this is the true spirit of want another company to succeed and make great models for me to buy…

Take your winnings and leave Vegas, go home and rethink your whole concept from the ground up. Hire a better 3D guy,

If you’re going to use Flying Debris have him do the entire line and get his help on the base concept…That hard suit is super old piece you picked up somehow… let him help you carry that ball into the in zone, but for now take a Knee and figure out what you’re really doing this whole project is so very very all over the place it’s scary.

 5deadly wrote:

Hire a better 3D render guy

Not going to argue the rest as it is mostly subjective and I am happy to let you have an opinion contrary to mine but what exactly is bad with the Renders?

I am rather interested in the Hardsuits and they are renders at the moment. What should I be seeing and be disappointed with about them?

If we are talking about the previous renders, can you please let me know what parts you are particularly unimpressed with?

 Kalamadea wrote:

Especially since Dwartist just posted a link to the hardsuit that Antenociti is about to release and it looks oddly familiar somehow. If only I could put my finger on what it reminds me of...

Thanks for posting, I'll be buying a few of these!

 5deadly wrote:
...Hire a better 3D render guy, rethink following the herd into the realm of Bugs, space germans and all female armored warriors… the market is flooded with this rubbish already it only stands out in the worst possible way.

The market is flooded with female warriors? Really?

If you’re going to use Flying Debris have him do the entire line and get his help on the base concept…

This - or something like this - I'd agree with. Their models would be far better if they stuck to sculpting instead of trying to "fix" the designs.

Wow. This render is please don't bypass the swear filter, it's there for good reasons. Thanks. Reds8n awesome.



I'm not sure what 5deadly is talking about. And if Mantic really was breaking copyright law, GW would have sought redress through the courts by now. The fact is, GW's stuff is derivative rehashes of ideas they can't own.

"The market is flooded with female warriors? Really?"
No..... but is is flooded with rubbish... look at tabletopgamingnews. You'll see it Everywhere ; )

"I'm not sure what 5deadly is talking about. A Mantic really was breaking copyright law, GW have sought redress through the courts by n fact is, GW's stuff is derivative rehashes of id can't own."

Talking about a market saturated with weak product that's all.
I didn't say Mantic broke any copyright laws.... they just happen to make everything GW makes now including a scifi version of blood bowl.
Which trying to succeed in a business by blatantly copying is sad.
At least this game only steals poorly from starship troopers and lightly copies from urban mammoth... trust me guys I know my stuff.

Flooded with rubbish? Well you know what they say about one man's trash...

Truth is there's a market for these figures. Some people only want the best and are willing to pay top dollar for it, and good for them! But, some people just want lots and lots of decent looking figs on the table, "good enough" is exactly what they want. Or they don't have the kind of disposable income to make every model they play with the absolute best available, especially for what might be just a small side game for them. Mantic and Defiance and Wargames Factory produce figs for those 2nd type of gamers, and fulfill that role really well. Mantic is as big as they are BECAUSE there is such a market for cheaper versions fo WHFB figures that are "good enough". Avatars of War got off the ground for doing the opposite, making not-GW heroes that were often BETTER than the GW versions. There's ALWAYS room for more of the same, especially when it's more of almost the same, but different enough it fills a niche that may be missing. And the worst that happens? Few people buy it and it goes away, but it was still around for those that liked it. Better than simply not having it available, better by a mile.

As for simply copying stuff, from your avatar I'm guessing you like Infinity. Infinity is just stealing from Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell, by your definition. Some people want that, they want generic not-starship troopers and they want not-arachnids and they want not-maschinenkrieger hardsuits, just as they want not-landmates and not-tachikomas. I certainly do. I want all of that and as much as I can cram in my closet! And the stuff I don't like? I don't buy it. Because I don't like it. And if it's too good in game to skip, I use a differant model that suits my fancy. Because I like it.

You don't like these plastics, that's totally cool. If it's not your thing then it's not your thing. But there's certainly a market for it, and some people are not as picky about their models, and some people simply have differing tastes and think these look pretty darn good, in fact. A good paintjob will make a so-so model look amazing, and a poor paintjob will ruin the best of sculpts, and I'll take a so-so model that suits my fancy over an amazing model that doesn't match my taste any day of the week.

 5deadly wrote:

I didn't say Mantic broke any copyright laws.... they just happen to make everything GW makes now including a scifi version of blood bowl.

GW doesn't make a sci-fi version of Bloodbowl. Just sayin'...

 5deadly wrote:

Which trying to succeed in a business by blatantly copying is sad.

Thousands of successful businesses would like to disagree with you.

 5deadly wrote:

At least this game only steals poorly from starship troopers and lightly copies from urban mammoth...

I would love to see some breakdown of what they took from Urban Mammoth.

 5deadly wrote:

trust me guys I know my stuff.

I can't believe you actually wrote that...

~Eric

Kalamadea has it spot on.

I'm actually very interested in the Germans because of their not-Starship troopers look. I want to use them as rebels in my Sedition wars games, as I think they will fit the aesthetic very well.

I'd like to see these when they come out.

I might skip on the germans, focus on the dreamforge kickstarter and get eisenkern for my stormtroopers instead. They still look good, methinks.

I don't understand the aggravation, 5deadly. There are many things I don't fancy, or don't agree with. I just don't voice it on an internet forum. There is only so little time in a day to spend some of it doing this.

I'm sure you must have a top notch miniature to paint instead, right? Wow us with that, rather than the Debbie downer attitude.

I think I will mount the right arm on the left side so that the missile pod is below the shoulder. I realise that their current position may be more functional, but this is a sci fi setting, so I am not concerned about function. Right now it just looks like mickey mouse.

That missle launcher hardsuit looks like a baby madcat, and I'm not exactly sure if that's a compliment or an insult...

As for the Germans, I really hope they can break the delay curse. I don't have cash to preorder yet, and I still haven't got my gunny, so hopefully I'll see him soon in the mail. When I have $30 to spare I'll probably throw in an order for ze germans as I need some good stormtroopers, but until then, I'll be waiting, and watching.

I have an opinion…
you don’t have to like it…
I’ve been doing this hobby for over 20 years…
I watched em’ come, I watched em’ go…
Everyone borrows from some other source
G.W. mainly Tolkien.
Privateer press… Little D&D but pretty unless I’m missing something original
Corvus mainly Masamune Shirow
Mantic mainly G.W. ; P
I do know my stuff. You don’t have to trust me. If you like this product buy this product, If this is what you want on the table, poorly made models… screaming cheap and I can’t afford the hobby..cool Once some of that sweet custom cupcake frosting paint job is applied it wont matter much…
it is a global recession, not everyone can afford well made models or really cares once they Elmer glue the model and Spatula on their paint. Their ready to roll some dice.
I want to see more refined products in a grossly over saturated market. It’s fine because when the stars of the industry they do shine very bright over all the just plain Ugly…
You want drink a Light Brewski, I want to drink a well-aged scotch.
I will not apologized for having a more refined taste.

 5deadly wrote:
I have an opinion…
you don’t have to like it…
I’ve been doing this hobby for over 20 years…
I watched em’ come, I watched em’ go…
Everyone borrows from some other source
G.W. mainly Tolkien.
Privateer press… Little D&D but pretty unless I’m missing something original
Corvus mainly Masamune Shirow
Mantic mainly G.W. ; P
I do know my stuff. You don’t have to trust me. If you like this product buy this product, If this is what you want on the table, poorly made models… screaming cheap and I can’t afford the hobby..cool Once some of that sweet custom cupcake frosting paint job is applied it wont matter much…
it is a global recession, not everyone can afford well made models or really cares once they Elmer glue the model and Spatula on their paint. Their ready to roll some dice.
I want to see more refined products in a grossly over saturated market. It’s fine because when the stars of the industry they do shine very bright over all the just plain Ugly…
You want drink a Light Brewski, I want to drink a well-aged scotch.
I will not apologized for having a more refined taste.

With all do respect, what do you consider "good" models? GW models are not all that great when you break them down. They have good features, but are not the end all be all of modeling. I like Ironwind metals models, but they have issues with organic surfaces, especially faces and hands, but their machinery is nice. These models are built to a appease a different taste in modelling. Personally I think they are very good, especially when you consider they are newer at the task than other companies. Look at GW's early stuff, most of that would make good paper weights, and definitely not display models. Don't even try to tell me that Marine Sculpts are good. That is the poorest example of proportions in the modeling industry. What I have seen of the Infinity models, they appear nice at first glance, but have some issue with arm lengths, and face proportions. Overall I think Infinity is better than GW model wise. The Hardsuit model looks cool, and as a combat machine it's lack of extraneous details is more plausible than the bits and bobs randomly applied to GW's combat machines. Really, banners, flags, spikes with no purpose, random skulls.........

I'm big fan of pre rubber Rackham. If that effort would have been spent making styrene kits its would've been so much different.
GW offers great flexibility in modeling but does have a touch of proportion issue.
Infinty is becoming better every release but the earliest models are very meh.
Dust has some great models and ideas but suffers from the same thing Rackham suffered from.

The hardsuit does look cool. But its a single model. Not sure if Alex did the concept for those rocket pods or not.
I do think defiant could produce a better product.
Does space Germans mean space Nazi...? Why bugs? Why another. Stab at a winged women in armor.
Was anything learned from the time at wargames factory? I understand companies in their infancy but that doesn't mean the quality needs to go down. Heroic proportions dynamic model would go far.
Like I said in my first post. You can cast in plastics why not make the most awesome kits ever? Malifaux now plastic looks good to. That's another company workin hard to break the mold.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
That missle launcher hardsuit looks like a baby madcat, and I'm not exactly sure if that's a compliment or an insult...

As for the Germans, I really hope they can break the delay curse. I don't have cash to preorder yet, and I still haven't got my gunny, so hopefully I'll see him soon in the mail. When I have $30 to spare I'll probably throw in an order for ze germans as I need some good stormtroopers, but until then, I'll be waiting, and watching.

You haven't received the gunny, either? I thought it was just me.

Both look cool. The top one reminds me of the old robotech Spartan destroid (don't remember what its battletech version was called) but I think I'd prefer the arms to come with it and to model the pods a bit higher and back to accomodate arms. As for the lower one, the only thing I'd improve on is the look of the weapons where they join the arms. The look like they're attached to the hand instead of carried and I think I'd prefer if they were forearm mounted or replaced the forearm. Either way, good progress on both.

 5deadly wrote:
I have an opinion…
you don’t have to like it…
I’ve been doing this hobby for over 20 years…
I watched em’ come, I watched em’ go…
Everyone borrows from some other source
G.W. mainly Tolkien.
Privateer press… Little D&D but pretty unless I’m missing something original
Corvus mainly Masamune Shirow
Mantic mainly G.W. ; P
I do know my stuff. You don’t have to trust me. If you like this product buy this product, If this is what you want on the table, poorly made models… screaming cheap and I can’t afford the hobby..cool Once some of that sweet custom cupcake frosting paint job is applied it wont matter much…
it is a global recession, not everyone can afford well made models or really cares once they Elmer glue the model and Spatula on their paint. Their ready to roll some dice.
I want to see more refined products in a grossly over saturated market. It’s fine because when the stars of the industry they do shine very bright over all the just plain Ugly…
You want drink a Light Brewski, I want to drink a well-aged scotch.
I will not apologized for having a more refined taste.

Great, you made your point, but made it in a very unpolite way. Maybe your 20 years on the hobby are throwing you in a Hubris... You collected Rogue Trader era? How in the hell you could buy those ugly things? You cold have a polite observation about the way you dont like those, instead, you said "the market is flooded with that type of crap". And now you start to tell us to respect your oppinion?

Im not a scotch specialist so, i will take beer as an example: i will not buy ultra cheap beer (they will just give head aches on the day after), but i will not buy ultra refined costly beers (in the end i just want to get drunk). I will get anything in the midground who pleases me, and no one will dare to tell me im wrong, because it is my money, my taste and my liver beying wasted there...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And just to end it: you know, i think the only bad side of this hobby are those people who keep trying to tell everyone wich is the "right way" to enjoy the hobby.

For the record, the Antenociti powered armor and the Defiance Games hardsuit are by the same artist, Alex Iglesias. Also, my Bugs (finally) shipped. If you're bored, here's the USPS tracking number: 9405510200881465470784. Feel the thrill (or not) is they wing their way from Boston to New Mexico! I'll have pictures and a description of the box contents up the day they arrive (barring insanity).

Honestly, I prefer the look of the Defiance hardsuit more. It's bulkier, more powerful looking. And I love the manipulator arms.

I used to love the metal Confrontation models (still have a bunch of them unpainted) The Selsyms were very thin, beautiful sculpts, the Echahim are still some of my favourites. But the fantasy trope has worn me so thin, I can't stand it anymore. I think that's also why I never played Librarians in 40K... I like my space opera a bit more techno, less magical.

I think the Battletech equivalent was called the Longbow. It was a bit of a one-trick pony though. I personally would put the rocket pods flush with the suit's hardpoint, with the sensor gizmo on top.

Please, Defiance, I want to give you money. So give me my female UAMC marines and hardsuits, so we can both be happy. :-)

I just want those hardsuits. I have no idea what I`d use them for, but they just look so cool. Not a fan of the missile arms, but I`m sure there`s a way to work around that.

Lol polite....on dakka....
Dakkadakka.com....

Who was I rude too besides defiant?

Sure....

Enjoy it how you enjoy it. I'm not telling any one don't buy this product or in that respect don't support defiant. My comments are directed toward defiant, I know they quietly hang on every word posted here and the other forums.
and yes in the rogue trader era those were the best models with the best tech of the era and that's my point why are backward steps being taken in a forward moving business (hence the Ral Parthia comment)
And I don't care if my opinion is respected. I'm posting on dakka you do know dakka has a overall hostile nature right. I didn't ask for respect did I?

I said I have an opinion. Because my opinion isn't coated n sugary goodness and presented in a palatable way for you its somehow carries less validity.
So someone can trash a new GW release. With noting but cheers for defying Goliath but if I post a smash mouth opinion against a fledgling company trying to get their attention and say what a 100 people won't I'm the bad Guy...
sure your right.
There's an ignore button you don't like whatI have to say use it. Defiant won't they needed to hear this.

Quick photoshop, I think I'll be mounting the missiles underslung, maybe add something from the bitz box to cover the shoulders

It's amazing how much more awesome looking something can be if you turn it upside down

I know, right?! And all you'll have to do is mount the left arm on the right and the right arm on the left, not even really a conversion.

- Removed by insaniak -