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The worst part of it all is I still would like to see them succeed. I hate the Catachan models, Cadians are cool but a bit bland, Copplestone are about the same price as a GW kit but are one piece metal models, Dreamforge have the same build as Superman in the old cartoons, and I don't want to go through the hassle of converting WWII or Napoleonic troops to look spacey. Pretty much any company making a multi part plastic human sci fi model is someone I want to see succeed and keep putting out models. That having been said, these are not the droids I've been hoping for. I'm still hoping for the best in the event they find a flash in the pan. Hell, people are so starved for a passable human sci fi kit, they think the Wargames Factory Greatcoats look good. Basically, what I'm hoping is that if they stay open long enough, they'll make something worth grabbing. Or at least they'll redesign the UAMC models. If the detail was sharper, they'd be fantastic.

If any customers have painted a few of their models, I'd like to see pics - some models look rather different when painted (even just undercoated).

Question: What would you rather see? More one off sets of DFG units or a complete force? I mean, would you rather see Chinese, British, Brazilian, Russian and whatever infantry sets, or would you rather see any given army get the full treatment of heavy weapons, specialist weapons, HQ, so on and so forth? I don't think this will change their policy, it's just a bit of curiosity. As sort of a side question, if you were releasing a completely new miniatures line including things like light vehicles and the rest with multiple factions, what order would you release things in?

Well I think a a COMPLETE force at one time (numerous types of infantry, support, vehicles) would be dead beat boring assuming 3-6 months in-between each faction

However I would like 2-3 sets per faction to be out for multiple factions within a relatively short time for variety. Much like Dystopian Legions if you checked their release waves

What I think would work well for now would be to see each faction get 1 type of standard buck infantry, 1 type of specialist unit, and a support vehicle of some sort, like the Powered Armor for the UAMC and that Metal Gear looking walker for the Germans.

I agree with Barzam.

Beyond that ...

Looking forward to seeing if the scale consistency is really an issue or not. The photo shown doesn't look much off to me, and I question if there is much of a difference. And how much its really noticable on a table top, compared to a photo that's magnified the view of the figure will be interesting to see.

I don't see the details as being soft either, but again, probably best to get the figures in hand first before finalizing such a view. Then see how they paint up.

As for the casting of the machine guns, definitely a bummer, but the rest seems to be ok. It seems unusual that the same figure shown also has the forearm off. The fact that they're acting on this for the customer is good.

Lets hope they can put these troubles behind them, because frankly, the Dreamforge figures aren't doing it for me. I prefer the style being shown by Defiance Games instead, but variation in products is ok because different folks are going to like different things..

 rosafari wrote:

 Xeno wrote:
Am I satisfied . . .

And that's from Defiance Defence Force #1, ooof!

I wouldn't exactly call myself part of the "Defiance Defense Force."

I've been involved with Defiance Games since before the company's founding, have seen the development of their products, heard of the trials and tribulations first and, and seen the frustration Defiance Games had with the endless delays they kept running into. They're actually trying hard to release good figures for a decent price, but keep running into serious problems. Some of these are not really their fault -- the delay on the Marines really was a problem with the manufacturers. Others really are their fault -- Tony Reidy had time-and-again launched pre-orders based on the naive belief that products will be ready to ship on a certain date despite several of us insider types saying flat-out "don't do a pre-order until you have the finished product in hand." Ed Fortae has mentioned on Frothers that they haven't followed his advice (he being the creator of the plastic) on manufacturing and has placed the blame on Defiance for the problems. Since I'm not in Massachusetts I don't know and I doubt I could get an honest answer out of them if I asked (and I have). They really are trying and do believe in their product -- the people working in the factory, including Gary who is also doubling as their facebook rep and webmaster are working for free because they want the company to succeed.

However, it's really, really frustrating to see them making the same mistakes over and over again, especially when you know it's probably going to kill the company. I don't exactly have a tangible investment but I do care. I'm not actively trying to defend them so much as say "these are the facts on the ground, make your own decisions." All I can really say is that people will get the products they ordered, but I wouldn't count on much else being shipped (and I wouldn't take Cpt. Jake's bet -- he'll probably win). If they can hold together and get a couple more products out and ensure reliable production, they should be okay, but I really do feel like that's a big "If."

Defiance's problem, though, is that there other companies in the game and they are releasing product that is just as good, if not better, for the same niches and for similar prices. Dreamforge is the exact perfect example of this.


Some further thoughts on the Germans:

They really aren't bad figures. The detail isn't soft after all -- it's actually very crisp, but since I don't have a light box or a decent camera the pictures at the best quality. The scale difference is noticeable, but it's not severe at tabletop distances, no more so than what you'd get combining a couple of ranged together. The cause of the problem, from what I understand, is that Defiance didn't compensate well-enough for mold-shrinkage and so the figures are smaller than they were intended to be. What this means, of course, is that they should have gone back and redid the molds.

If they release heavy weapons and a command pack for them (maybe even an upgrade kit similar to the Dreamforge one) I'll probably get those and another box of troops, but it's not something I'm waiting on with baited breath.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Clang wrote:
If any customers have painted a few of their models, I'd like to see pics - some models look rather different when painted (even just undercoated).

Give me a couple days and I can get a couple painted up. Unfortunately, I'm in college and school gets in the way of things. I'd actually intend to prime a couple gray and give them an ink wash to bring out the detail, but apparently Wal-Mart doesn't carry gray primer anymore and Russet Brown isn't so hot for showing off detail. Curse this small town and its limited options!

Could you give one a black wash just to show the detail?

Eilif wrote:
Could you give one a black wash just to show the detail?

I'll get one up tomorrow.

Unfortunately, I have to research parasitic wasps right now

I just went to their site. Still no new updates and no forum. But what was new was a section that looked like a spot for an advertisement. I was in my phone so maybe the content couldn't be loaded but is it an add? Could this mean that they are near the end and need extra cash to stay afloat?

 Xeno wrote:

 rosafari wrote:

 Xeno wrote:
Am I satisfied . . .

And that's from Defiance Defence Force #1, ooof!

I wouldn't exactly call myself part of the "Defiance Defense Force."

At one point you were their self proclaimed PR guy. Folks remember that.

 Xeno wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Could you give one a black wash just to show the detail?

I'll get one up tomorrow.

Unfortunately, I have to research parasitic wasps right now

Thanks,
Don't get bit!

So I just got my Gunny in the mail. Along with my gunny I also got a Fritz, 2 German Casualties and 3 Germans and 3 sprues of Marines. This, I believe, has more than made up for my delays with receiving my Gunny. He was a free mini anyway, so to receive even more freebies with him was just a great bug WIN!

I can stand confident, at this point, that they aren't going down just yet and really are trying to get everything sorted out. If you are still waiting on an order I would highly suggest going to their Facebook page and leaving a comment there. They have been very responsive with everyone over there and they really do seem to be getting things done as fast as they can.

Edit: Also, after looking carefully at every model I got, not a single one seems to have any miscasts. They all have clean lines. There is a reasonable amount of flash and a couple of German gun barrels are SLIGHTLY bent. Nothing abnormal for resin and a hell of a lot better than a good bit of Failcast that I have seen. Maybe GW should ask for advice now that Defiance has it working.

Shepherd23 wrote:
So I just got my Gunny in the mail. Along with my gunny I also got a Fritz, 2 German Casualties and 3 Germans and 3 sprues of Marines. This, I believe, has more than made up for my delays with receiving my Gunny. He was a free mini anyway, so to receive even more freebies with him was just a great bug WIN!

I can stand confident, at this point, that they aren't going down just yet and really are trying to get everything sorted out. If you are still waiting on an order I would highly suggest going to their Facebook page and leaving a comment there. They have been very responsive with everyone over there and they really do seem to be getting things done as fast as they can.

Edit: Also, after looking carefully at every model I got, not a single one seems to have any miscasts. They all have clean lines. There is a reasonable amount of flash and a couple of German gun barrels are SLIGHTLY bent. Nothing abnormal for resin and a hell of a lot better than a good bit of Failcast that I have seen. Maybe GW should ask for advice now that Defiance has it working.

Holy crap I just realized I STILL haven't got that stupid gunny figure...

I had forgotten all about him.

 Xeno wrote:
Unfortunately, I have to research parasitic wasps right now

Damn, then the rumours about Tau manipulating vespids are true

Sorry I haven't got those pictures up yet; it's on the schedule for tonight. I'm thinking just paint one gray and give it a light gray drybrush.

I also (finally) got my Gunny, along with a replacement for the prone gunner with the missing arm (plus bonus extra casualty figures) and a couple of Swamp Worms too. Of course, the MG gunner's barrel had snapped; I think I'm going to reinforcement all of them with a thing strip of something or other under the barrel.

 Xeno wrote:
Sorry I haven't got those pictures up yet; it's on the schedule for tonight. I'm thinking just paint one gray and give it a light gray drybrush.

I also (finally) got my Gunny, along with a replacement for the prone gunner with the missing arm (plus bonus extra casualty figures) and a couple of Swamp Worms too. Of course, the MG gunner's barrel had snapped; I think I'm going to reinforcement all of them with a thing strip of something or other under the barrel.

Just replace the barrels with something like a paperclip or a small piece of wire. That's what I do.

Now, please note that these kits have been showing up at people's doors since the forum has been downed and someone in particular has been publicly silenced.

I would like to propose the Tony Reidy law of miniature production.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Now, please note that these kits have been showing up at people's doors since the forum has been downed and someone in particular has been publicly silenced.

I would like to propose the Tony Reidy law of miniature production.

So eventually someone else is gonna wrestle the company out of his hand, and then everything will become better

I hope that will be the case in the future

As requested, I finally got these taken:










As far as detail is concerned, there two real issues -- the holes in the greaves and the slots in the vambraces are a bit shallow. Also, there tend to be mold lines on the helmet, but those are easy to clean up. Otherwise, they're fine.

Thansk for that, much appreciated. I have to admit they don't look as bad with a coat of paint and a drybrush. My initial impressions are mostly unchanged, but perhaps a bit more subdued now.

Did you file down the waist a bit?

I'm still not impressed enough to buy them for myself, but I can see where these are of good-enough quality that some folks will buy them. I'm still holding out hope for the hardsuits!

Nope, didn't file down the waist. I did on one figure, but it made him too short and didn't look very good besides.

Eilif wrote:
Eh, I could care less about lateness, delivery dates, etc. Unfortuntately it's to the point now where I expect that from indie wargame companies. I look at the product, price, and use and make my judgement based on that.

"The problem is" that the figures are sub-par.

Yup. Like I said before, these are poor, barely better than fan-cast.

It's a shame too, I was looking forward to getting some of the Hudson's Bugs, but now... no way.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Quite the disappointment, compounded by the fact the Dreamforge is releasing a very similar kit that is exponentially better than this one.

 SkaerKrow wrote:
Quite the disappointment, compounded by the fact the Dreamforge is releasing a very similar kit that is exponentially better than this one.

I don't really see the similarity with these minis and the dream forge stuff. Other than gas masked helmet heads. Yes they are both German inspired, but that really is were the similarity ends.

That said, I like these and will probably use them. I love the Dreamforge minis and will most definitely use them. I will just not be able to use them together probably, Between these guys being on the short side and the Dreamforge stuff running on the tall side, I am thinking that it will be to apparent on the table top.

I want them to fight GI Joe!

Do all these pictures mean that they are finally available through normal, non-DG channels?

Also, where's my gunny?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I want them to fight GI Joe!

Hmm, they do have a rather Cobra look about them. I've already got a bunch of Reaper Bones Nova troopers (through kickstarter) coming my way that will get a head swap to be cobra vipers, but these would work also.

Shepherd23 wrote:

 SkaerKrow wrote:
Quite the disappointment, compounded by the fact the Dreamforge is releasing a very similar kit that is exponentially better than this one.

I don't really see the similarity with these minis and the dream forge stuff. Other than gas masked helmet heads. Yes they are both German inspired, but that really is were the similarity ends.

That said, I like these and will probably use them. I love the Dreamforge minis and will most definitely use them. I will just not be able to use them together probably, Between these guys being on the short side and the Dreamforge stuff running on the tall side, I am thinking that it will be to apparent on the table top.

You don't see the similarity between two German inspired kits of Sci-Fi soldiers in full combat armor with enclosed, masked helmets? The premise is damned near identical, the difference is mainly chalked up to quality and execution. I'm glad that you like them, but they are objectively of lower sculpting quality than the very similar kit from Dreamforge.

Is it me, or with the way the shoulders are positioned, that would be a very long neck on those Germans?

You look like you have soft hands... ;-)