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Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone






 CptJake wrote:
Shepherd23 wrote:
You should have taken it as it was intended. The fact that they realized there was an issue and that they held back full release until the issue was resolved, shows a level of QC.

2. I haven't seen them taking any pre orders for product that can't ship recently. Yes, it did happen. Again, it wasn't intended to work out that way.


Seriously?

They took money for the jeep thing, and have not delivered. Does that count as recent to you? It does to me.

Heck, right now they are allowing folks to preorder the barriers and containers. Is currently doing it recent enough for you? It is for me.


They took my money for the jeep thing . . . then, when they realized they needed to do some more work on it, they gave me the option to sub out other product instead.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 Xeno wrote:


They took my money for the jeep thing . . . then, when they realized they needed to do some more work on it, they gave me the option to sub out other product instead.


Hi All - I just wanted to clarify something here. With the JRAB vehicle we were producing them in spincast plastic and found we had an opportunity to switch to injection molding. Since we had just announced them and had only had a few pre-orders - we took them out of the shop and gave each of the pre-orderers three choices. Here is the email that was sent:

I wanted to write to update you on your JRAB order.

We've been a bit silent on the JRAB because we had been making some changes on the mold as I mentioned in my last email - but in the meantime we uncovered an opportunity to take this further.

I've been working with a new company and we are finalizing the project to switch the JRAB to be produced in injection molded plastic. This will be our first set to be done with injection molding since the Marines were released last year and potentially the first of many new releases to come from this new vendor.

We will still be putting out a load of new sets in our spincast plastic because it gives us the opportunity to do some details and parts that are just impossible with injection molding.

The files for the redesigned JRAB kit will be off to the toolmaker next week. We expect the project will take about a month to complete - possibly as much as two months depending on any unforeseen issues arising. But we also expect the finished product to be REALLY sharp!

I wanted to offer you three options because of this change and delay:

1. A full refund ASAP

2. A replacement set for your JRAB order - i.e. Marines, Germans, Chinese, Bugs, Worms. Yes, Chinese - we have a LOAD of them cast up and ready to go. We just haven't finished the boxes yet.

or

3. If you would like to wait I'm going to double your JRAB order once the injection molded version is finished

In the meantime we're going to take the JRAB down from ordering until we have the new parts in hand. And I would appreciate it if you could keep this under your hat. This is big news for us and we'd love to surprise people in a few weeks!

Please let me know which of the three options you'd like to go with. Thank you for your patience and look for a LOT of new stuff coming out over the next few weeks as we gear up for the JRAB launch!

*****
There were 15 orders with the JRAB as part and everyone with the exception of Xeno asked to wait for the injection molded version. That is underway now and we're just waiting to hear back what the final schedule looks like for tooling.

I understand there is frustration with us out there with our progress. Please know that we've been incredibly frustrated with our progress for two years now. Nobody really wants to hear that though -they just want nicely made toys and that's what we're focused on every day. We don't have huge resources and our delays have meant that we have even less to work with. But we've kept moving forward little by little. The new process with the spincast plastic is going really well. We've been extremely happy with the results.

There's been a huge learning curve - first with trying to do injection molding in the US and then with spincasting the plastic. Mold designs have changed a bunch of times. The process, the materials, everything has changed many, many times as we've figured it out. Every time we thought we were where we needed to be - some new issue would crop up. A great example are the neck rings on the Chinese. Those were too thin for the plastic - so we had to go back and have them resculpted. Then the new molds with those had an issue because of a bad mold frame. I very much feel like I'm cursed half the time!

That all said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that we haven't lived up to our potential. But we continue to work at it and the new team that is involved in production and quality control and sculpting - are doing some great work. We believe you will really like what we have coming. The Chinese are a really great set of figures sculpted by Bob Naismith - and now that we've worked out the neck issue they look fantastic. The revised Germans are looking incredible. And the JRAB and German mech in injection molded plastic are going to be fabulous kits. The big one that I've been waiting for - and I know many others are - is the UAMC Hardsuits. The sculpts are fantastic. We're really excited to get them going.

If you want me to - I'll do my best to try to respond here more often. Let me know.

Thanks,
Tony

   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Oh yeah, plastics!!!

I'm assuming it's going to be panels, rather than a solid block?

Any chance that company can also do the Battle Eggs?

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Painting Within the Lines



Western PA

 Xeno wrote:
They took my money for the jeep thing . . . then, when they realized they needed to do some more work on it, they gave me the option to sub out other product instead.


You forgot the full refund or double your order options, right?

The new JRAB in plastic will be a conventional panel kit.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/07/29 21:19:45


The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.
 
   
Made in us
Camouflaged Zero




Maryland

Wow wow wow, hang on a second. What's this about "revised" Germans? If some of the more critical issues with the kit could be fixed, I would be willing to reconsider my stance on the company.

Something that the defenders of Defiance need to realize is that none of us want to dislike the company. We're just disappointed. I really, really wanted to like the PzGs, but they just weren't good enough.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon



Malifaux: Lady Justice
Infinity: &  
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Well, then, if they can pull a panel kit on the vehicle, that might go over very well. I can't stand sentinels but always wanted a light vehicle alternative.

We'll see.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone






Shepherd23 wrote:
 Xeno wrote:
They took my money for the jeep thing . . . then, when they realized they needed to do some more work on it, they gave me the option to sub out other product instead.


You forgot the full refund or double your order options, right?

The new JRAB in plastic will be a conventional panel kit.


I decided to switch out to Chinese because I wanted to see how they turned out.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the JRAB, Mech, and Hardsuits turn out. I've got a project I'd like the make the hardsuits part of if they turn out reasonably okay.


Tony et al,

Just make sure you spend the extra time fine-tuning them. The only really significant problem with the Chinese, aside from some mold slippage, was that they need a couple of extra vents. Add those in and they'd be fine, really!
   
Made in ca
Plastictrees





Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Shepherd23 wrote:
 Xeno wrote:
They took my money for the jeep thing . . . then, when they realized they needed to do some more work on it, they gave me the option to sub out other product instead.


You forgot the full refund or double your order options, right?

The new JRAB in plastic will be a conventional panel kit.


Xeno is a notorious hater of everything Defiance does, you should DEFINITELY jump down his throat about omitting irrelevant details from the description of what he did.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

This is quickly becoming the most negative thread on Dakka.


...


On a more positive note, I preordered the UAMC marines when they came out and got them delivered in a geologically timely manner. My gunny arrived earlier this year (2013), too.

I hope the War Store gets some of the bugs in around November 26th, because I have a feeling I'll be in the mood to buy, buy, buy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/30 04:56:10


   
Made in us
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Arizona, US

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
None of the above should be read in anything else but a light-hearted tone of voice, just so ya'll know.


Don't drag me into this!

It's an ugly planet. A bug planet.

 Ouze wrote:
7.) If you gather 250 consecutive issues of White Dwarf, and burn them atop a pyre of Citradel spray guns, legend has it Gwar will appear and answer a single rules-related question.
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




About the JRAB. I assumed this was a creation of Defiance Games, however on closer examination it appears to be a copy of the real world Komatsu LAV used by the Japanese Army.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komatsu_LAV_-_2.jpg


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/30 11:06:00


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





renko1917 wrote:
About the JRAB. I assumed this was a creation of Defiance Games, however on closer examination it appears to be a copy of the real world Komatsu LAV used by the Japanese Army.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komatsu_LAV_-_2.jpg




Welcome to Dakka renko! Yes we really liked the lines of the Komatsu and did some tweaks to future-ize it. We think it will be a fun little vehicle for any SF battlefield. Or the modern/near future guys can strip out the SF elements and use it as a Komatsu!
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Boston, MA

renko1917 wrote:
About the JRAB. I assumed this was a creation of Defiance Games, however on closer examination it appears to be a copy of the real world Komatsu LAV used by the Japanese Army.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komatsu_LAV_-_2.jpg

There's nothing wrong with that. The Space Marine Rhino is essentially an M113 APC but with doors on the sides, and that's an iconic kit. Science fiction especially borrows/steals from absolutely everything.

Check out my Youtube channel!
 
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Tuareg





California

So wait, is Defiance going to redo the Germans in proper hard plastic!? If they do, that might fix a lot of the problems that the restic ones had. If that happens, I might actually consider purchasing another set. I really wanted to like them, but the QC just wasn't up to par. Too many figures with mold slipage, too many figures with soft, smudgey details, lots of guns missing handles, barrels missing, or just plain miscast. If they're redone and the issues are addressed, hell, I might even buy several boxes of them.

   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone






I gather they're just sizing them up. The original ones are too small when compared to the Marines. And I don't just mean "different armor styles" small. The bodies underneath the armor are vastly different, unless the Germans are actually all 14 year-old boys (or the Americans freakishly huge).

Increasing the size and making some of the details deeper would help with the smudged details (there aren't any, actually, except in the forearm plates for some reason) and making the gun barrels thicker and adding extra vents would take care of the gun barrels vanishing.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 Xeno wrote:
I gather they're just sizing them up. The original ones are too small when compared to the Marines. And I don't just mean "different armor styles" small. The bodies underneath the armor are vastly different, unless the Germans are actually all 14 year-old boys (or the Americans freakishly huge).

Increasing the size and making some of the details deeper would help with the smudged details (there aren't any, actually, except in the forearm plates for some reason) and making the gun barrels thicker and adding extra vents would take care of the gun barrels vanishing.


No - we're completely resculpting them to match the artwork and scale better. The original designs were made for injection molding and on top of that there were too many small scale details that just didn't work. Scale-wise they are the same size. But the armor needs to be bulkier to represent Armor 4 in the ALIEN WAR rules as compared to Armor 3 for the UAMC Marines and Armor 1-2 for the Chinese Militia.
   
Made in us
Camouflaged Zero




Maryland

 DefianceGames wrote:
 Xeno wrote:
I gather they're just sizing them up. The original ones are too small when compared to the Marines. And I don't just mean "different armor styles" small. The bodies underneath the armor are vastly different, unless the Germans are actually all 14 year-old boys (or the Americans freakishly huge).

Increasing the size and making some of the details deeper would help with the smudged details (there aren't any, actually, except in the forearm plates for some reason) and making the gun barrels thicker and adding extra vents would take care of the gun barrels vanishing.


No - we're completely resculpting them to match the artwork and scale better. The original designs were made for injection molding and on top of that there were too many small scale details that just didn't work. Scale-wise they are the same size. But the armor needs to be bulkier to represent Armor 4 in the ALIEN WAR rules as compared to Armor 3 for the UAMC Marines and Armor 1-2 for the Chinese Militia.

Interesting. I'll have to keep an eye on this. As I said before, I was really excited about the PzGs, and therefore really disappointed when they finally arrived. If the detail is better and closer to the concept art, I'd be willing to give them a try.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon



Malifaux: Lady Justice
Infinity: &  
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone






I didn't realize it was a full re-scuplt. Here's hoping we'll get those big, bulky, heavily-armed Germans yet!
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Tuareg





California

Please, please, PLEASE go hard plastic with the new Germans. I had so many problems with my set just from the material choice alone, most of the figures wouldn't even glue together. Please avoid that issue all together and make these out of hard plastic.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Xeno wrote:
I didn't realize it was a full re-scuplt. Here's hoping we'll get those big, bulky, heavily-armed Germans yet!


Anyone else have this come to mind?




Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut



Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy

Please please please let the germans be 28mm high, and not 30 like the GW guardsman, please.

Professional armourer, artist, blacksmith.

http://www.magisterarmorum.com
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

 CptJake wrote:
 Xeno wrote:
I didn't realize it was a full re-scuplt. Here's hoping we'll get those big, bulky, heavily-armed Germans yet!


Anyone else have this come to mind?





Yes, it does. But being a hopeless romantic, I still hope they deliver. More quality offerings on the market is ultimately a good thing. Emphasis on quality, not just offerings.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:


Yes, it does. But being a hopeless romantic, I still hope they deliver. More quality offerings on the market is ultimately a good thing. Emphasis on quality, not just offerings.


QFT. Nothing wrong with more good offerings in the market, no matter how skeptical I remain of any given company. If Mierce can rehabilitate their image after the Maelstrom implosion, Defiance can overcome more mundane issues with delivery timeframes and QC. Not saying that I'd be chomping at the bit to purchase these outside of a retailer, but I do have a soft spot for German military styling. Done well and on the shelf, I could be interested.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Brother SRM wrote:
renko1917 wrote:
About the JRAB. I assumed this was a creation of Defiance Games, however on closer examination it appears to be a copy of the real world Komatsu LAV used by the Japanese Army.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komatsu_LAV_-_2.jpg

There's nothing wrong with that. The Space Marine Rhino is essentially an M113 APC but with doors on the sides, and that's an iconic kit. Science fiction especially borrows/steals from absolutely everything.


I would humbly disagree. The Rhino, in all its forms, is clearly inspired by the M113 type "box on tracks" APC, but is visually totally different. There are currently a number of similar LAV \ Hummer inspired sci fi vehicles out there from Antenocities, Khurassan, GZG and others, but these like the M113 \ Rhino analogy are inspired by but clearly different to the originals. The JRAB, judging from the pics so far released, is a direct copy of the Komatsu LAV only with different wheels and a new roof mounted weapon station (or hole, as it is also known). I would guess it is somewhere around 90-95% a straight copy of the Komatsu.

I rather like it, but that doesnt detract from the fact its a copy being sold as something original.
   
Made in us
Painting Within the Lines



Western PA

I would say that this is a big improvement. The official notice can be found here...

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=610969302268458&id=184727694892623&set=a.184728231559236.42281.184727694892623&__user=100000313869798

Or

http://www.defiancegames.com/comms-chatter/german-panzergrenadiers-core-force/11371-german-panzergrenadiers-redesign#11906
[Thumb - image.jpg]


The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User






That's going to be annoying for anyone with the original Germans as all the new figures will be incompatible or are they offering to replace them?
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Come on, that's just an unrealistic ask

when have a minis company ever given out free replacements when a figure gets a resculpt?

 
   
Made in us
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Poughkeepsie, NY

Posthumous wrote:


That's going to be annoying for anyone with the original Germans as all the new figures will be incompatible or are they offering to replace them?


Ridiculous much? Great first post..............


Automatically Appended Next Post:
renko1917 wrote:
 Brother SRM wrote:
renko1917 wrote:
About the JRAB. I assumed this was a creation of Defiance Games, however on closer examination it appears to be a copy of the real world Komatsu LAV used by the Japanese Army.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Komatsu_LAV_-_2.jpg

There's nothing wrong with that. The Space Marine Rhino is essentially an M113 APC but with doors on the sides, and that's an iconic kit. Science fiction especially borrows/steals from absolutely everything.


I would humbly disagree. The Rhino, in all its forms, is clearly inspired by the M113 type "box on tracks" APC, but is visually totally different. There are currently a number of similar LAV \ Hummer inspired sci fi vehicles out there from Antenocities, Khurassan, GZG and others, but these like the M113 \ Rhino analogy are inspired by but clearly different to the originals. The JRAB, judging from the pics so far released, is a direct copy of the Komatsu LAV only with different wheels and a new roof mounted weapon station (or hole, as it is also known). I would guess it is somewhere around 90-95% a straight copy of the Komatsu.

I rather like it, but that doesnt detract from the fact its a copy being sold as something original.


So what? There is enough legit stuff to complain about with Defiance Games. This is pretty weak. I'm also glad you did a scientific investigation to let us know it is exactly a 90-95% copy.........

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/02 10:31:32


3500 pts Black Legion
3500 pts Iron Warriors
2500 pts World Eaters
1950 pts Emperor's Children
333 pts Daemonhunters


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




brettz123 wrote:


Ridiculous much? Great first post..............



Gee thanks!


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Come on, that's just an unrealistic ask

when have a minis company ever given out free replacements when a figure gets a resculpt?


But seriously, how many figures companies withdraw something within a few months of going on sale only to re-sculpt them to be completely different.
Even GW wait more than a year or so to replace a range with something incompatible It's not as if they didn't admit the reason is because they got the original set wrong!
If it was any other consumer item than miniatures, the question wouldn't be considered unrealistic
   
Made in us
Camouflaged Zero




Maryland

For me, it's really way too early to make any sort of value judgement on the new sculpt. It has the potential to be better, but that doesn't mean anything. I would think that Defiance would get better with practice, but the Chinese set seems to be the worst product they've ever produced. Time will tell, I guess.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon



Malifaux: Lady Justice
Infinity: &  
   
 
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