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Why does he need to wait until next week to make a statement?

Because he'll get a lawyer to write it.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
From defiance on facebook

Spoiler:

Defiance Games


Hello, there have been accusations regarding Defiance Games and it's business practices with outside contractors. I am not going to go into details here on Facebook as this is not the place for that sort of thing. I will be making a statement on this issue on our forums and in our next podcast.
People that know me, know me as a man of great integrity and honesty. Nobody is being deceived or kept from being paid as long as I'm running things. I will leave it at that. Look for my statement on this matter next week. Thank you

-Gary

so hopefully this will get sorted out ok for Proxy

Let's hope so. It's been my experience that you have to hold folks' feet to the fire to get results, so maybe our public complaints will have some effect!

And Defiance continues to reaffirm my reasons for not supporting them. At least they're consistent in that regard.

 CptJake wrote:
Why does he need to wait until next week to make a statement?

Before they can claim they got rid of their new manager too they need to make a new sockpuppet. That type of thing takes a few days.

You can't just make false claims about replacing sockpup... err "people" at the drop of the hat. People need a show if they want to believe Tony's not in charge.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
From defiance on facebook


Defiance Games


Hello, there have been accusations regarding Defiance Games and it's business practices with outside contractors. I am not going to go into details here on Facebook as this is not the place for that sort of thing. I will be making a statement on this issue on our forums and in our next podcast.
People that know me, know me as a man of great integrity and honesty. Nobody is being deceived or kept from being paid as long as I'm running things. I will leave it at that. Look for my statement on this matter next week. Thank you

-Gary

so hopefully this will get sorted out ok for Proxy

Ken at Proxie Models is a stand-up guy. They need to pay for the work he did for them, or get out.

The few thousand it will cost them to square up with Proxie would more than make up for itself in goodwill... and the reverse would be true if they don't resolve it.

 RiTides wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
From defiance on facebook


Defiance Games


Hello, there have been accusations regarding Defiance Games and it's business practices with outside contractors. I am not going to go into details here on Facebook as this is not the place for that sort of thing. I will be making a statement on this issue on our forums and in our next podcast.
People that know me, know me as a man of great integrity and honesty. Nobody is being deceived or kept from being paid as long as I'm running things. I will leave it at that. Look for my statement on this matter next week. Thank you

-Gary

so hopefully this will get sorted out ok for Proxy

Ken at Proxie Models is a stand-up guy. They need to pay for the work he did for them, or get out.

The few thousand it will cost them to square up with Proxie would more than make up for itself in goodwill... and the reverse would be true if they don't resolve it.

The thing is, I don't even think they have the few grand it would take to square up. If they don't even have the 10-pack of Hudson's Bugs in stock, what makes you think they have a couple grand lying around?

We have also yet to get confirmation one way or the other, as to whether Tony Reidy is still in charge.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 chris_valera wrote:
The thing is, I don't even think they have the few grand it would take to square up. If they don't even have the 10-pack of Hudson's Bugs in stock, what makes you think they have a couple grand lying around?

That is not a reasonable line of logic. First, the Hudson's Bugs are made from restic which, as I keep on pointing out, is a completely inadequate material for mass production. Where proper plastic would make casting 300 Hudson's Bugs a trivial task, restic makes this a significant endeavour. Second, we know they have a couple of grand lying around - forty grand, to be precise.

 AlexHolker wrote:

That is not a reasonable line of logic. First, the Hudson's Bugs are made from restic which, as I keep on pointing out, is a completely inadequate material for mass production. Where proper plastic would make casting 300 Hudson's Bugs a trivial task, restic makes this a significant endeavour. Second, we know they have a couple of grand lying around - forty grand, to be precise.

I don't think they should be breaking into the Kickstarter piggy bank in order to pay off pre-kick debts. They're going to need that for fulfillment of the Kickstarter. I can't imagine they won't be using every penny to make sure it gets done.

The revenue from the Proxie stuff they've sold should be going straight to Proxie. Ideally, they should have bought it from Proxie in the first place, instead of consignment or whatever understanding they had. I doubt anyone knows what the Defiance/Proxie agreement was, but clearly Defiance isn't a company that can be held to a 'gentleman's agreement'.

I don't think they should be breaking into the Kickstarter piggy bank in order to pay off pre-kick debts. They're going to need that for fulfillment of the Kickstarter. I can't imagine they won't be using every penny to make sure it gets done.

The revenue from the Proxie stuff they've sold should be going straight to Proxie. Ideally, they should have bought it from Proxie in the first place, instead of consignment or whatever understanding they had. I doubt anyone knows what the Defiance/Proxie agreement was, but clearly Defiance isn't a company that can be held to a 'gentleman's agreement'.

I think the point is that they shouldn't have been launching a kickstarter to take on even further commitments when they already had previous ones long outstanding that they still haven't delivered on.

They've sold through the majority of the stock that they "bought" on credit and haven't paid. If they've sold the product then they already have the money to cover payment for the materials. (plus profit from the mark up) Now if they didn't sell a single copy it'd be an entirely differant case. What they are doing is getting product from the manufactuerer on credit then refusing to pay their bill when it's due, which is basically the same as stealing that product in order to re-sell it.

They should have the funds to pay simply from the sales of the products, regardless of what they just raised on KS. When you consider that they have two seperate sources of funding that could be used to pay their bill with Proxie why hasn't been paid? It's called greed and dishonesty Defiance wants to make money at the expense of others hard work.

 paulson games wrote:

I think the point is that they shouldn't have been launching a kickstarter to take on even further commitments when they already had previous ones long outstanding that they still haven't delivered on.

They've sold through the majority of the stock that they "bought" on credit and haven't paid. If they've sold the product then they already have the money to cover payment for the materials. (plus profit from the mark up) Now if they didn't sell a single copy it'd be an entirely differant case. What they are doing is getting product from the manufactuerer on credit then refusing to pay their bill when it's due, which is basically the same as stealing that product in order to re-sell it.

They should have the funds to pay simply from the sales of the products, regardless of what they just raised on KS. When you consider that they have two seperate sources of funding that could be used to pay their bill with Proxie why hasn't been paid? It's called greed and dishonesty Defiance wants to make money at the expense of others hard work.

I can't disagree with any of that, essentially.

I still think the KS funds are not an ethically viable option for paying back debt, that's not part of our agreement (implied or implicit) as backers. Has any KS ever stated 'We'll be using your pledges to help pay our debts, and maybe make something for you if we still have money?"

Although as I think upon it maybe Defiance should have said that up front...

Edited for spelling/grammar

 Dr Mathias wrote:

 paulson games wrote:

I think the point is that they shouldn't have been launching a kickstarter to take on even further commitments when they already had previous ones long outstanding that they still haven't delivered on.

They've sold through the majority of the stock that they "bought" on credit and haven't paid. If they've sold the product then they already have the money to cover payment for the materials. (plus profit from the mark up) Now if they didn't sell a single copy it'd be an entirely differant case. What they are doing is getting product from the manufactuerer on credit then refusing to pay their bill when it's due, which is basically the same as stealing that product in order to re-sell it.

They should have the funds to pay simply from the sales of the products, regardless of what they just raised on KS. When you consider that they have two seperate sources of funding that could be used to pay their bill with Proxie why hasn't been paid? It's called greed and dishonesty Defiance wants to make money at the expense of others hard work.

I can't disagree with any that, essentially.

I still think the KS funds are not an ethically viable option for paying back debt, that's not part of our agreement (implied or implicit) as backers. Has any KS ever stated 'We'll be using your pledges to help pay our debts, and maybe make something for you if we still have money?"

Although as I think upon it maybe Defiance should have said that up front...

Not many KS projects delineate how funds are going to be allocated. For all we know, there are project creators that have some debt (maybe even related to that specific project) which they intend to use project funds to cover. Some may take funds nominally allocated towards profit and use it to lower carried debt. There is really nothing wrong with that as long as they built that into their funding goals and are able to deliver whatever folks have pledged for.

Having said that, I suspect Defiance did not build this particular debt into their project funding goals.

 Dr Mathias wrote:

 paulson games wrote:

I think the point is that they shouldn't have been launching a kickstarter to take on even further commitments when they already had previous ones long outstanding that they still haven't delivered on.

They've sold through the majority of the stock that they "bought" on credit and haven't paid. If they've sold the product then they already have the money to cover payment for the materials. (plus profit from the mark up) Now if they didn't sell a single copy it'd be an entirely differant case. What they are doing is getting product from the manufactuerer on credit then refusing to pay their bill when it's due, which is basically the same as stealing that product in order to re-sell it.

They should have the funds to pay simply from the sales of the products, regardless of what they just raised on KS. When you consider that they have two seperate sources of funding that could be used to pay their bill with Proxie why hasn't been paid? It's called greed and dishonesty Defiance wants to make money at the expense of others hard work.

I can't disagree with any that, essentially.

I still think the KS funds are not an ethically viable option for paying back debt, that's not part of our agreement (implied or implicit) as backers. Has any KS ever stated 'We'll be using your pledges to help pay our debts, and maybe make something for you if we still have money?"

Although as I think upon it maybe Defiance should have said that up front...

No I think it on the backers (and anyone "investing" money) to look into any company there done business with. But, a company should pay any and all debts as some as they are able. If he wasn't a business moron (Wargame Factory proves this) he would of just added the debt to the goals in the KS and no one ever know.

Cpt. and Noir, thanks for the viewpoints. Interesting things to think about.

I think we'll be seeing some crazy things happen in the crowdfunding world in the next few months and years. These ventures are kind of like the Wild West, a lot of anarchy and unexplored territory. .

If they projected 5K to make the battle eggs a reality... then I'm guessing 46K would have a bit of leeway to pay off Ken. Even with the extra projects they promised, there were very few stretch goals on this KS and I thought it was smart of them...


...but now I know better.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
If they projected 5K to make the battle eggs a reality... then I'm guessing 46K would have a bit of leeway to pay off Ken. Even with the extra projects they promised, there were very few stretch goals on this KS and I thought it was smart of them...


...but now I know better.

I thought all along (and suggested it to them early in the KS) that they should just do the Battle Eggs and the arms. Few stretch goals. This is a company that needs to keep it simple and be done with it. The extra stuff like female marines etc. concerns me greatly, even the few extras they have make me anxious about completion. I hope they prove everyone wrong...

I hate to think they're using KS money for other stuff... heck they might have gone to Applebee's for margarita night the day they received funds into the account. 'Business lunch'.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
From defiance on facebook


Defiance Games


Hello, there have been accusations regarding Defiance Games and it's business practices with outside contractors. I am not going to go into details here on Facebook as this is not the place for that sort of thing. I will be making a statement on this issue on our forums and in our next podcast.
People that know me, know me as a man of great integrity and honesty. Nobody is being deceived or kept from being paid as long as I'm running things. I will leave it at that. Look for my statement on this matter next week. Thank you

-Gary

so hopefully this will get sorted out ok for Proxy

I like how he states people know him AS a person of etcetcetc, as if he's some widely renown person in the gaming industry instead of an unknown that many suspect to be a sockpuppet. The only way people know him is cause of Defiance Games, which again doesn't have the best reputation right now because the new bosses supposedly won't pay the bills

Makes me wonder if he's been taking lessons from DM, slap on a new name, say the stores under new management then act like everyone knows him as some pillar of the community. He'll start calling dakka a hive mind out to get him next

I have been asked to make some corrections here so that everyone fully understands the situation. As has been stated, Proxie Models is currently owed money from DG for the barricades that he manufactures. This part of the situation is completely correct.

The issue regarding the money for shipping containers is a bit more involved. Proxie manufactures the containers for Rust Forge. DG placed an order for the shipping containers that we had proxie direct ship to DG due to the size. When the money never showed from DG, it meant that we could not afford to pay Proxie, either.

This has resulted in us not being able to produce new product until we can get Proxie paid up. Since we only have a small collection of product, it is taking a lot of time to make the money to pay proxie. We used every penny we could to start this company and have been effectively held hostage until this issue is resolved. Every dollar earned is being saved to pay Proxie. Once he is payed up we will start saving for new product again.

We are actively pursuing payment still and we are still hoping that we do get paid, but, like Proxie, we are hoping, not hopeful.

This just gets worse and worse (and more complicated)

I really hope you can get paid so you can get proxy sorted out

Hopefully every sculptor, concept artist, printer, caster, whatever is made aware of how Defiance treats its partners.

At least before they just seemed incompetent.

 plastictrees wrote:
Hopefully every sculptor, concept artist, printer, caster, whatever is made aware of how Defiance treats its partners.

At least before they just seemed incompetent.

I never thought they were just incompetent. There was shady behavior from the beginning.

 paulson games wrote:
People need a show if they want to believe Mandlebaum's not in charge.

Fixed that fo... Oops. Freudian slip. My bad.

 plastictrees wrote:

At least before they just seemed incompetent.

Now it's appearing criminal.

So what is the current situation ?

In brief: There isn't any news. Probably won't be any.

Though, as far as I know, Tony is still running the company, just with somebody else as the figurehead.

Just waiting for thread title change to Chinese manufacture takeover . I doubt with the problems they had with the torn armor kickstarter that we will see anything else from defiance.

What do they have that any other company would even want to take over? Anyone with the ability to cast in any material at all would be better off getting new CAD sculpts done than touch any of Defiance's steaming leavings.

If they sold off the moulds for the UAMC marines, and the rights to the UAMC hardsuits, and they'd get a quick HIPS mould, then I could see them taking off. Say... Wargames Factory might put them out of their misery?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
If they sold off the moulds for the UAMC marines, and the rights to the UAMC hardsuits, and they'd get a quick HIPS mould, then I could see them taking off. Say... Wargames Factory might put them out of their misery?

Too much bad blood between them for WGF to get the stuff. Maybe another company?