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Wake up and smell the coffee

I really hope someone ends up with the molds to the UAMC. Those were pretty decent sci-fi troops, and in hard plastic! Mantic still hasn't managed to accomplish this.

Heck, Mantic could buy the moulds and use those as corporation troopers.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Heck, Mantic could buy the moulds and use those as corporation troopers.

Why would you want to? The moulds are okay, but they are not good. Much better to take the concept art and make a good sprue from it.

Maybe the thread should be closed, as this company only produces frauds but no products.
Last time a Defiance thread wasn't closed soon enough, many people lost their money in a kickstarter/indiegogo campaign.

I don't think the failure was a matter so much of needing to lock the thread, the failure lies with headstrong gamers with twinkling shinnies in their eyes.

Some of us were along the side of the road screaming "the bridge is out, don't go that way!" and we watched as gamer after gamer not only continued to stream past but actually stepped on the gas to get there even faster. Because they wanted to see that brand new shiny so bad they just plugged their ears even harder and raced up that hill like lemmings following the pack regardless of where it led and what warning signs were along the way.

I'd feel bad for the people that lost money with Defiance except a lot of people at the time were like "yeah I know Tony may be a complete turd, but I don't care cause I want this shiny, and I'm only gambling an amount I can afford to lose". So the blame is really on them. It doesn't excuse Tony for ripping people off, but it takes two to tango in that KS relationship, Tony can only take what people willingly give him. I don't really have too much sympathy for people who continued to back Defiance even after being warned.

I see the way things wound up so poorly for Defiance. I feel good and bad as I got the 118 UAMC MArines I ordered in a timely manner, what happened after that was total chaos as I saw them going away to new materials and I was silently screaming NOOOOOO! the plastiuc is working, do not jump mid stream! stick with working materials.

Others thought the way I think Tiny was, "Oooh this new material will be superior to the plastics!" w/o double checking or experimenting with the needed changes for the materials so w/o a R&D department to allow checking new materials, delays caused by switches to troll-forged restic, and other materials w/o seeing the potential and in this case dire consequences.

Though the UAMC MArines are not the top of detail quality, the price per man was worth it. They had a winner, and should have made more money getting out the UAMC faction, followed by bugs, then the other planned factions paid for by the money from the leading product. I was taking the wait and see approach for Defiance to score a win like the UAMC Marines.........Caution saved my wallet.

Yeah, the new material was like Rearden metal. Tony just felt it in his gut that it was the right thing to do.

I just wish I had an extra box of those UAMC marines...

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Yeah, the new material was like Rearden metal. Tony just felt it in his gut that it was the right thing to do.

I just wish I had an extra box of those UAMC marines...

Unlike Rearden Metal, I doubt the gov't or anyone else is going to try and force Tony to give up his secret.

Maybe Tony just removed his operation to a town in an undisclosed location where federal laws don't apply and there's no interference from the government... except by the local one, of course.

Anyone know what state he hides in?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/593197.page#6790204

Most probably Massachussetts, or he went into Wyoming where his company's charter is, just to hide.

So what's the deal, are they actually out of business or are people just speculating?

It's kind of a shame, I liked them when they were Wargames factory, I never bought any of the Defiant stuff but it had potential.

Ah well.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So what's the deal, are they actually out of business or are people just speculating?

It's kind of a shame, I liked them when they were Wargames factory, I never bought any of the Defiant stuff but it had potential.

Ah well.

No one's really sure, although it's looking like whoever is in charge of it now took the kickstarter money and ran with it.

They could have bought a cheap car instead of running.

But yeah, last login into KS was in February, I think this one is dead in the water. You'd have to be pretty naive to think Tony Reidy would do business with the Chinese again.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
You'd have to be pretty naive to think the Chinese would do business with Tony Reidy again.

Fixed that for you

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
They could have bought a cheap car instead of running.

But yeah, last login into KS was in February, I think this one is dead in the water. You'd have to be pretty naive to think Tony Reidy would do business with the Chinese again.

I don't think it is a stretch that he would approach the Chinese.

Tony played up the 'American made' thing as much as possible in the early days of WGF, even while having a sprue reclamation program where customers could mail in their empty sprues and Tony would ship them back to China I'm LOLing about that now, there's no way he did that.

Then when he stiffed Wai Kee and was forced out of WGF, he did everything he could to make the transition almost impossible including withholding product design files, financial records, and customer data. He appeared to be anti-Chinese at that point and certainly stoked the fires when people came out in his defense. He may have even been anti-Chinese.

Tony then founds Defiance and plays up the made in America thing even more, gets involved with American companies who for some reason partner up with him. They defend him and their choices when people call them out on partnering with Tony. Then Tony proceeds to shaft every single person in the USA that could have possibly helped him make the product.

He had no choice but to approach a Chinese company to make stuff.... there's no way Renedra would touch him, even if he could afford 3-ups.

I still think he tried to find a way to make the hardsuits, and I think he could have with 46K. But there was no way he was ever going to get the mechs and supplementary models made. We have never seen prints of the heavy weapons or anything else beyond the basic suit.

At this point he should be offering up refunds or old kits to backers as compensation, but I doubt he has any stock of anything.

I'd love to know if Defiance cast their own stuff at all, or if they were just unloading Trollcast until they ran out.

I'd also like to know what company cut the mold and cast the styrene Marines. Thats a big investment to not be using and they weren't available for long. I suspect Tony stiffed that company and they won't turn over the mold or cast anything else.

I'd suspect that Defiance used a US equivalent of http://www.protolabs.co.uk who will turn your CAD designs into sprues and cast them for you using (iirc) aluminium tools rather than steel tools. Much cheaper than steel but with a more limited lifespan - ideal for a company expecting smaller volume like Defiance. Protomould in the UK retain posession of the tools and you have to cast through them, so not paying your bils would cause all sorts of problems I imagine.

richred_uk wrote:
I'd suspect that Defiance used a US equivalent of http://www.protolabs.co.uk who will turn your CAD designs into sprues and cast them for you using (iirc) aluminium tools rather than steel tools. Much cheaper than steel but with a more limited lifespan - ideal for a company expecting smaller volume like Defiance. Protomould in the UK retain posession of the tools and you have to cast through them, so not paying your bils would cause all sorts of problems I imagine.

Interesting, that's a definite possibility. I wonder who the USA equivalents are.

http://www.protolabs.com/

They've got a US headquarters (UK must be a subsidiary). No idea if they did work with them, but the finances would make sense, as would the seeming inability to produce new stock. There might well be similar companies around, but proto are the ones we work with at my company so the one that sprung to mind.

hmm.. Never heard of Protolabs but the site says they have a HQ in the USA.. so they could make stuff here? I intend to contact them about my fiendish plans for world domination...

Damn, I'd pay to get myself a second box of those marines. Crazy me.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Damn, I'd pay to get myself a second box of those marines. Crazy me.

You're not alone, there are quite a few people that would buy them if they could.

So... off to eBay with my (assembled) box of marines?

Extra steps.

Profit?

I have a bunch of sprues left that I never got around to assembling. What are they worth?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
So... off to eBay with my (assembled) box of marines?

Extra steps.

Profit?

Careful, a solid business plan like that might end up with you being made CEO.

Hah, there's like 5 boxes of the Marines at my old FLGS in Lexington. The idea that those guys are in high demand is pretty funny. I almost threw mine away when I was moving up here.

I'm sure there are a few folks who would like more, but it's a bit of a stretch at this point to think that the UAMC marines are in "high demand."

Still, I do hope they do become available again, whether through Defiance or some other company. Unlike the rest of the Defiance lineup, they were a good (not great, but good) quality product at a good price that filled a very useful gaming niche.

I stand corrected. Seems like I read about people wanting the marines, and never see them offered up on forum marketplaces.

I guess they overproduced and didn't move them then.

 Dr Mathias wrote:
I stand corrected. Seems like I read about people wanting the marines, and never see them offered up on forum marketplaces.

I guess they overproduced and didn't move them then.

I got about 100 or so of them all waiting for me to paint, and entire company of soldiers from Defiance.

That whole fracas about WGF greatcoats, I got about 118 of those as well. My IG are pretty well equipped with WGF/Defiance/Dreamforge/and GW plus other sources for infantry and vehicles. But having been able to get what I ordered, during these times make me wonder what was really going on?