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 KGatch113 wrote:


Flyers didn't dominate? 3 of the 6 games I played had flyers and they were a major factor in my losses.

I was the same. Flyers were a major part of why I lost 3 games. Their only weakness is the table quarter mission, and I just did not play them during those missions.

What kind of lists were you guys running that Fliers caused such an issue? Most of my games weren't decided by primary objectives so against Fliers I would have just tried to force Quarters over and over. I think balanced Flyer lists are dangerous but the all-in Flyer lists seem to be fairly weak (at least in the NOVA missions).

Yeah it's funny Fliers aren't so nasty when you include Quarters. That is an overall sense though. If you play the list in the Quarters mission your happy, otherwise maybe miserable.

I really wish GW would have found a way to make them balanced. No matter what they do with them I expect they will be over the top or garbagy. It really seems like people who want to be competitive will just have to design there lists to beat fliers in the same fashion that people designed there lists to beat marines or in later years Nob Bikers. Lists heavy with Fliers seem like they would severely limit what # of types of lists would be competitive but unlike when Nob Bikers did that there is a very limited number of things that are good against them. It seemed like every codex could build a list to beat the ol' Nob Bikers.

Yeah, the fliers were a bit ridiculous. I faced about 20 of them over the weekend and downed 4. While my two dakka jets died every single game.

They were annoying but only the 3 Valkryies in one list contributed to one of my losses.(The others were due to me not caring and wanting to sleep in on Sunday )

Oddly didn't mind the flyer lists over the weekend. In the 13 games I played I probably ran into around 20 flyers and 5 of them were Stormravens ( I hate AV12 flyers....). To be honest, other than the mobility they offerred there wasn't a single instance of them being a problem. But I feel 6th has shifted to durability being key so I had a crap ton of models

 Hulksmash wrote:
Oddly didn't mind the flyer lists over the weekend. In the 13 games I played I probably ran into around 20 flyers and 5 of them were Stormravens ( I hate AV12 flyers....). To be honest, other than the mobility they offerred there wasn't a single instance of them being a problem. But I feel 6th has shifted to durability being key so I had a crap ton of models

That was my problem. In the Nova Open I played a Dark Eldar foot horde and I had no durablity. Stormravens just flew around me and took me apart with their hurricanne bolters and psybolt ammo.

My Draigo list for the Invitational faced 2 necron air force armies and they killed everything but the paladins. If I was to do it again I would take 20 paladins.

Necron flyers were definitely a huge pain to deal with for most armies. I was able to down a few with my Vendettas and by using Bring it Down on melta units, but otherwise they had free reign. However, I did notice that the majority of people using flyers were unaware of the 45 degree vertical arc of fire restriction for hull-mounted weapons. Lots of Necron players were basically landing on top of their targets and shooting at angles that were not legal.

Tony definitely had the right idea for dealing with them--rather than trying to shoot them down (apart from Njal), just cover and the board and give them nowhere to go.

Being one of those players who used flyers. ( 3 in the GT, 5 in the Invitational )
I would say they were great, and garbage. For example in my first game of the invitational I was able to drop troops anywhere on the board on the bottom of the final turn to win the game and get good shots off, this strategy also allowed me to win against Blackmoor, gonyo, and kyle cox. Without the ability to deploy troops anywhere to sit on an objective I would have been SOL in some of those situations.

But, then I played armies where they were absolute trash, for example against little Kopach he had 2nd turn so he was able to mitigate their damage then counter with his own flyers. Then in another game against Tony my flyers did almost nothing, they killed a total of MAYBE 15 models with 5 flyers 2 of which being doom scythes. So in all honesty in a large GT where you must be able to complete the mission, I would say they are a crutch. Playing with them felt like I was using one of the most powerful tools, yet it limited my abilities to influence the game at certain points.

In most tournaments where there are no quarters missions I believe flyers will prevail more often than not, but with quarters it balances out the fact flyers are slightly too strong in this edition.

Blackmoor, if you had 20 pallies..I would have just shook your hand and walked away

I saw the illegal shooting argument more than once. There were some sketchy Necron shooting in my games too but luckily my opponents agreed and began playing it right moving forward.

I also saw some flyers modeled to point at the ground, so I am curious the result of those games.

I have to say Flyers were what did me in. I can handle Eldrad being in every army because you can throw enough dice and eventually get through the 2+ reroll. I couldn't even throw dice at the flyers most times. A large portion of my Anti-tank has zero effect on flyers as Deffrollas, PKs and Artillery do nothing.

I will be taking a ADL in every army I play forever now. That is my life now.

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Oddly didn't mind the flyer lists over the weekend. In the 13 games I played I probably ran into around 20 flyers and 5 of them were Stormravens ( I hate AV12 flyers....). To be honest, other than the mobility they offerred there wasn't a single instance of them being a problem. But I feel 6th has shifted to durability being key so I had a crap ton of models

That was my problem. In the Nova Open I played a Dark Eldar foot horde and I had no durablity. Stormravens just flew around me and took me apart with their hurricanne bolters and psybolt ammo.

My Draigo list for the Invitational faced 2 necron air force armies and they killed everything but the paladins. If I was to do it again I would take 20 paladins.

I played with Pallies too but brought my own Flyers for defense and durability. I also had Wraiths which the Flyers did absolutely nothing to. In the future ill drop Flyers and just supplement Paladins with as many 3+ saves as I can in order to just out-last opponents.

LValx wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Oddly didn't mind the flyer lists over the weekend. In the 13 games I played I probably ran into around 20 flyers and 5 of them were Stormravens ( I hate AV12 flyers....). To be honest, other than the mobility they offerred there wasn't a single instance of them being a problem. But I feel 6th has shifted to durability being key so I had a crap ton of models

That was my problem. In the Nova Open I played a Dark Eldar foot horde and I had no durablity. Stormravens just flew around me and took me apart with their hurricanne bolters and psybolt ammo.

My Draigo list for the Invitational faced 2 necron air force armies and they killed everything but the paladins. If I was to do it again I would take 20 paladins.

I played with Pallies too but brought my own Flyers for defense and durability. I also had Wraiths which the Flyers did absolutely nothing to. In the future ill drop Flyers and just supplement Paladins with as many 3+ saves as I can in order to just out-last opponents.

Pallies with as many allied Grey Hunters you can fit in?

nkelsch wrote:

I will be taking a ADL in every army I play forever now. That is my life now.

Considering how cheap and effective it is, Orks always should.

whoadirty wrote:

LValx wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Oddly didn't mind the flyer lists over the weekend. In the 13 games I played I probably ran into around 20 flyers and 5 of them were Stormravens ( I hate AV12 flyers....). To be honest, other than the mobility they offerred there wasn't a single instance of them being a problem. But I feel 6th has shifted to durability being key so I had a crap ton of models

That was my problem. In the Nova Open I played a Dark Eldar foot horde and I had no durablity. Stormravens just flew around me and took me apart with their hurricanne bolters and psybolt ammo.

My Draigo list for the Invitational faced 2 necron air force armies and they killed everything but the paladins. If I was to do it again I would take 20 paladins.

I played with Pallies too but brought my own Flyers for defense and durability. I also had Wraiths which the Flyers did absolutely nothing to. In the future ill drop Flyers and just supplement Paladins with as many 3+ saves as I can in order to just out-last opponents.

Pallies with as many allied Grey Hunters you can fit in?

Haha, that is actually the plan. Every marine squad will have a 2+ save attached as well.

Yeah Im going to agree that the paint scoring doesn't seem quite right but hey what ever... Great time hope you get the scoring for painting straighten out.

I can't imagine allowing FW units in can possibly unbalance the game any more than allies have.

In fact, even superheavies are really not that imbalanced at least the smaller ones. With the new rules for hull points, the differences between a bane blade and a squadron of 3 leman russ are pretty much cosmetic. But I realise that might be above what some people would tolerate for the main event.

Thanks to everyone for being such wonderful players. I was the extremely tall (and extremely stressed out) guy running scoring this year, and I sincerely appreciate everyone's patience while we dealt with a few hiccups in between some of the matches. Special thanks to Neil of the 11th Company for writing such awesome software; it made my life so much easier than before.

If anyone has any questions about scoring, or how much of my life span was reducing by having 186 people watching me stare at a computer screen, I'll be happy to answer them.

I do recommend checking out Infinity though.

Thank YOU for all your hard work.

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:
Thanks to everyone for being such wonderful players. I was the extremely tall (and extremely stressed out) guy running scoring this year, and I sincerely appreciate everyone's patience while we dealt with a few hiccups in between some of the matches. Special thanks to Neil of the 11th Company for writing such awesome software; it made my life so much easier than before.

If anyone has any questions about scoring, or how much of my life span was reducing by having 186 people watching me stare at a computer screen, I'll be happy to answer them.

I do recommend checking out Infinity though.

Still laughing from the message

"seriously Infinity is really fun."

Apparently we got a few people to check it out at the demo tables as a direct result of my plug. So that was cool.

Beer - Just wanted to say thanks again for the help with the tape measure when mine went missing was a great help. Had a great time at the event looking forward to next year.

Yea thanks again for all your work! I was one of the guys that had a scoring hiccup saturday morning but you fixed it all. Definitely the best 40k event I've been to and one of the best weekends in general I've had in a while. Thanks for doing everything you do.

So...uhh....how 'bout them Fantasy scores?


I know a couple people who played in it and I wanna see how it panned out.

Waiting on them from Scooter presently.

MVBrandt wrote:
Waiting on them from Scooter presently.

Well tell him to trade up to a proper bike so he can hurry it up

 Grimwulfe wrote:
Beer - Just wanted to say thanks again for the help with the tape measure when mine went missing was a great help. Had a great time at the event looking forward to next year.

No problem! Hopefully it served you in 40K better than it did me in Infinity. I ended up going 2-2.

 morgendonner wrote:
Yea thanks again for all your work! I was one of the guys that had a scoring hiccup saturday morning but you fixed it all. Definitely the best 40k event I've been to and one of the best weekends in general I've had in a while. Thanks for doing everything you do.

Thank you for being so patient. When you're putting in 93 entries as fast as possible it's really easy to get something transposed, and that's exactly what happened a few times. Next year I'm going to look into something like using scanning software so players can just bubble in their scores (remember Scantrons from school?) and then I scan the whole thing.

Fliers will run their course until Flakk missiles release. I'll just wait them out.

If you maneuver correctly against Flyers then Stunned and Immobilised results kill them as well as Explodes!. Even if they are GK you might be able to stop the Fortitude.

I think people will design their lists with them in mind if they want to be competitive. Even without doing that people might start taking advantage of all the issues Flyers have. Also Table Quarters by VP with only scoring and denial counting should help even out Flyers at least in a kharmic sense.

I'm glad to to see that, once again, I'm solidly mid-tier.

One day I'll practice with my list and become a decent player again. Either which, I had a great time, and will be back next year.

I had a blast : )

Flyers were not that big of a deal... i played them in every game and I didn't have any of my own. Here is a pro tip.... drive towards them and they can't normally shoot you : )

also.... make sure you use the 45 degree arc thing... it makes a BIG difference!

 frgsinwntr wrote:
I had a blast : )

Flyers were not that big of a deal... i played them in every game and I didn't have any of my own. Here is a pro tip.... drive towards them and they can't normally shoot you : )

also.... make sure you use the 45 degree arc thing... it makes a BIG difference!

That was an ongoing fight due to people having different opinions on fire arcs and some people modeling to point at the ground. In a meta where flyers all fly level and can only point down 22 degrees, they have blindspots which can be out manuvered. What people wanted to do is put the base of the flyer 1" from the target and shoot directly down.