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2012/07/15 02:25:34
Subject: Re:6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 14)
Red Comet wrote:I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.
So under this interpretation you roll once and the result applies to both the unit and librarian.
Red Comet wrote:I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.
So under this interpretation you roll once and the result applies to both the unit and librarian.
That's how I understood it too.
Yup that's the only way it makes sense unless there is another way of looking at it that I haven't thought of. I think its a ridiculous rule that makes no sense until you realize that Fearless is granted by one model to the entire unit. Imagine if a Librarian could grant Fearless to any unit he joined or a Sanguinary Priest, etc.
I think they should have errated it so that the IC is never subject to the Red Thirst aka if the unit gains FC the Librarian doesn't benefit from it because FC is gained on a model per model basis., but can benefit from Fearless because the squad is fearless.
2012/07/15 11:52:54
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 14)
Red Comet wrote:I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.
So under this interpretation you roll once and the result applies to both the unit and librarian.
That's how I understood it too.
Yup that's the only way it makes sense unless there is another way of looking at it that I haven't thought of. I think its a ridiculous rule that makes no sense until you realize that Fearless is granted by one model to the entire unit. Imagine if a Librarian could grant Fearless to any unit he joined or a Sanguinary Priest, etc.
I think they should have errated it so that the IC is never subject to the Red Thirst aka if the unit gains FC the Librarian doesn't benefit from it because FC is gained on a model per model basis., but can benefit from Fearless because the squad is fearless.
They should have errated it to say our ICs have the Red Thirst rule! This FAQ makes no sense at all considering our ICs don't have the Red Thirst. Leaving the only interpretation of FAQ to say that if the IC was originally attached when the Red Thirst is rolls, then he is the only IC that can attach there.
2012/07/16 19:17:55
Subject: Re:6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 14)
Red Comet wrote:I've been looking into it and when you read Red Thirst it says that the entire unit gains FC and Fearless. Now in the rulebook when an IC joins a squad he is considered like part of the unit and essentially is just another model in the unit that is a character. So once I've deployed an IC within a unit of ASM or another squad he's considered part of the Unit. When the unit gains Red Thirst the IC has it as well. So if the Assault Marines that have my Sanguinary Priest gain Red Thirst so does my Priest and my Priest can only join squads that rolled a 1 for Red Thirst or Death Company.
So under this interpretation you roll once and the result applies to both the unit and librarian.
That's how I understood it too.
Yup that's the only way it makes sense unless there is another way of looking at it that I haven't thought of. I think its a ridiculous rule that makes no sense until you realize that Fearless is granted by one model to the entire unit. Imagine if a Librarian could grant Fearless to any unit he joined or a Sanguinary Priest, etc.
I think they should have errated it so that the IC is never subject to the Red Thirst aka if the unit gains FC the Librarian doesn't benefit from it because FC is gained on a model per model basis., but can benefit from Fearless because the squad is fearless.
They should have errated it to say our ICs have the Red Thirst rule! This FAQ makes no sense at all considering our ICs don't have the Red Thirst. Leaving the only interpretation of FAQ to say that if the IC was originally attached when the Red Thirst is rolls, then he is the only IC that can attach there.
Yeah, that's the weird part...
No one Provokes me with Impunity Atlas' Blood Oath - In progress, 22W 14L 4T (2012) - 14W 6L 0T (2013)
Craftworld Mymeara 440 points - in progress (....sort of a given ) - 4W 2L 0T (2013)
DQ:90S++G+M-B--IPw40k13++D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Where beautiful and brilliant people go to hang out - Lord Sanguinius' fb page
2012/07/22 03:10:33
Subject: Re:6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
I've been playing in an escalation league for the past couple of weeks. We are 1000 points now and today I tried out a Stormraven in my list. It was amazing! The amount of firepower it can bring to the board is insane. It shreds things alive because it is just so durable now. No one at my FLGS runs an Aegis Defense Line for some reason. I had the Stormraven tank a lot of shots from Lootas today. I have really bad luck with those bloodstrike missiles. I can't wait till I run 2. The biggest problem with running the stormraven is that it goes into reserves and this makes it really tough for 25 ish assault marines to deal with targets that are far. I wish GW would have made it so they fly onto the board turn 1 instead of turn 2 and that it was automatic.
That being said, I don't see why we shouldn't be running two of these. They are just so durable.
2012/07/22 03:50:47
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
I find passive aggressive messages in people's signatures quite amusing.
2012/07/22 05:27:14
Subject: Re:6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
Its not very friendly to begin with. A lot of the players there use Tournament geared lists. Rarely do people use fluffy lists there. The players are tough to beat.
2018/07/09 11:04:14
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
That's my impression as well. I ran a super mixed list and my ASM were markedly weaker, but once my stormraven came in with a dread and a group of assault terminators, the entire game turned around.
I know it might sound like heresy, but I'm considering a few practice games without any assault squads at all.
2012/07/22 21:49:35
Subject: Re:6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
Red Comet wrote:I've been playing in an escalation league for the past couple of weeks. We are 1000 points now and today I tried out a Stormraven in my list. It was amazing! The amount of firepower it can bring to the board is insane. It shreds things alive because it is just so durable now. No one at my FLGS runs an Aegis Defense Line for some reason. I had the Stormraven tank a lot of shots from Lootas today. I have really bad luck with those bloodstrike missiles. I can't wait till I run 2. The biggest problem with running the stormraven is that it goes into reserves and this makes it really tough for 25 ish assault marines to deal with targets that are far. I wish GW would have made it so they fly onto the board turn 1 instead of turn 2 and that it was automatic.
That being said, I don't see why we shouldn't be running two of these. They are just so durable.
Red Comet wrote:I've been playing in an escalation league for the past couple of weeks. We are 1000 points now and today I tried out a Stormraven in my list. It was amazing! The amount of firepower it can bring to the board is insane. It shreds things alive because it is just so durable now. No one at my FLGS runs an Aegis Defense Line for some reason. I had the Stormraven tank a lot of shots from Lootas today. I have really bad luck with those bloodstrike missiles. I can't wait till I run 2. The biggest problem with running the stormraven is that it goes into reserves and this makes it really tough for 25 ish assault marines to deal with targets that are far. I wish GW would have made it so they fly onto the board turn 1 instead of turn 2 and that it was automatic.
That being said, I don't see why we shouldn't be running two of these. They are just so durable.
Probably in part because it's only 1000pts.
Haha. That's true, but you have to realize it was taking fire from Loota squads which always hurts no matter how you look at it.
2012/07/23 11:39:14
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
Guys I need help. I have read all the thread but I am still confused. I want to start building a small BA force for 6th and intend to take the opportunity of a coming tournament to give it a good test. Can you see my army list on this post and leave a comment?
I like it. It seems pretty solid for that small a game, dude.
No one Provokes me with Impunity Atlas' Blood Oath - In progress, 22W 14L 4T (2012) - 14W 6L 0T (2013)
Craftworld Mymeara 440 points - in progress (....sort of a given ) - 4W 2L 0T (2013)
DQ:90S++G+M-B--IPw40k13++D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Where beautiful and brilliant people go to hang out - Lord Sanguinius' fb page
2012/08/02 20:03:29
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
Just played in a 1500 point tournament this weekend, the Golden Throne in San Jose, CA. I had six very eye opening games, and will post my list and thoughts below.
My list - Mephiston
2 Vindicators
Autolas Predator
TLAC Baal Predator
2x 5 man RAS in TLAC Razorback
2x 5 man RAS in Lasplas Razorback
Typhoon
Game 1 vs Mech Guard, Dawn of War Crusade - Win
5 Chimera with a mix of melta and plas vets
CCS in Chimera with plasma
2 Leman Russ
2 Vendetta
AV13 wins vs multilasers. Vendettas did some damage outflanking and the battlecannons made me nervous but I made a wall of AV13 and hid the Razorbacks behind it and just blasted away. Used Meph as a threat of countercharge if anything got too close.When Vendettas were overhead I moved under them to minimize his options. For everyone that said my mech was fragile, his was more so.
Game 2 vs DEldar, Hammer + Anvil Purge the Alien - Win
Archon w/splinter cannon trueborn in Venom
2 Ravagers
4x 10 warriors in Raiders w/ Blasters
Farseer w/ RoW
5 Rangers
3 scatterlaser warwalkers
Good opponent, great guy. Straight up shooting match, I went first and set up camp at midtable (playing long ways, remember). We were laying into each other, but his AV10 died way easier than AV13. Vindicators are fantastic fire magnets, and while they can really dish out damage they do have specific limitations. Landing the template on skinny DE vees is tricky.
Game 3 vs 1K sons, Vanguard Strike + Big Guns - Win
Terminator Sorceror
10 Tz Terminators
2x 10 1Ksons
2x 3 Oblits
A resilient army, with scary amounts of firepower against MEQ on foot. Unfortunately for him, as soon as I killed the Oblits he didnt really have anything with which to hurt me in shooting. Meph used Hallucination to good effect to keep the Terminators out of melee. Game ended turn 5, he had 2 models left on the table and I hadnt lost anything.
Game 4 vs Swolves, Dawn of War + Scouring - Win
2 Runepriests
2x Missile Long Fangs
5 squads of assorted Grey Hunters in Razorbacks and Rhinos
Lone Wolf w/ LC/SS
He started off strong and Seized, killed both Vindicators and the TLAC Razors. I hugged the back table edge and started popping transports to get his Hunters on foot. Meph engaged the Lone Wolf and catapulted into midfield, where JMac shot his entire army at Meph. I had Precognition up, and didnt lose a single wound - Meph then went on a rampage eating Hunters and I pulled out the win in a long game. Scoring Baal Predator helped wrap things up with a late 12" + 12" flat out move.
Game 5 vs Grey Knights, Hammer + Anvil Emperors Will - Loss
Coteaz
5x 3 henchmen in psyback
2x 5 Purifiers with hammer and 2 psycannon in TLAC Razorback
2 Psyfleman Dreads
1 Venerable Psyfleman Dread
Dreadknight w/ Heavy Incinerator
Playing on table 1 with no flyers, so we officially announced that flyers are dead in 6th edition. Vindicators went down early again, Meph charged a squad of 4 Purifiers in the open and only killed 1, then got hammered. Very bloody game with so much light armor. His Dreadknight was the deciding factor, as I didnt have enough ap2 to kill it before it got to me. Psyfleman dreads = still awesome. ChristianA = great player.
Game 6 vs Sisters, Vanguard Strike + Relic - Loss
Saint Celestine
2x 10 Retributors w/ Heavy Bolters
2x 10 Sisters on foot
2x 5 Sisters in MMImmolators
Exorcist
10 Seraphim w/ pistols and whatnot
Aegis Defence line
Saddest game of the tournament :( Relying on rending vs AV13 is a tough road to victory, and I dug in early and didnt let go of the relic. However, Celestine and the Seraphim dropped in behind my line and absolutely demolished the squad holding the relic, and my return fire vaporized the entire group of them including Celestine. In the middle of turn 6 he had maybe 10 total sisters left on the table, which were the rets in his backfield and 2 or 3 engaged with a spare assault squad in no mans land. No chance of picking up the relic, Mephiston was alive albeit with 1 wound, and things were looking pretty good. However, in the bottom of 6 he killed Meph to claim the Warlord point, and Celestine stood up and flamed the guy holding the relic - a 5 point swing, since I lost the points for Slay the Warlord, the Relic, and Linebreaker since she was in my deployment zone. The game ended just like that, and I lost by 1 point on secondaries. My opponent completely lucked into the win by rolling a 4+, and I dont know if he knew that or not...there really wasnt any skill involved in it but thats the tournament life I suppose.
Post tournament thoughts - armor is just as viable as it used to be. Stun locking is gone, so thats a mark in their favor. Having infantry in transports sucks if you want to assault with them at all, I think MSU is excellent, I think short range firepower is excellent, I didnt really get to play much against flyers but there are definitely ways to mitigate their effect, and mobility is absolutely necessary.
2012/08/10 12:28:50
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
How are you running Memph? Just keeping him behind the razorbacks? Divination / hallu some games and original powers some games?
I love meph, and I love the new powers, but memph just running around with 0 mobility just feels so.. meh. I don't think I'm getting his points worth if he cant move around with wings..
(Only way I'm going to run him with div powers is prolly in a stormraven..)
2012/08/11 02:54:46
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
I dont use him as a wrecking ball, I use him for countercharge. I play a primarily shooty list and I need some kind of deterrent so people cant just bum rush me and call it a day. I have never had a problem with him on foot, seeing as he has fleet to reroll run and how my list uses range to reach out and touch things. I swap out his powers depending on the mission and opponent, usually one from Divination cause the Primaris power is helpful esp against flyers, and the rest from Telepathy. Invis and Hallucination are fantastic, and Psychic Shriek is a good fallback option if I get a power that won't be useful (Terrify against mech, Mental Fort, etc).
I would happily use normal librarians, but with Termi armor and a stormshield hes 145, and only mastery level 1 with a lackluster stat line. For the extra points, you get Mastery level 3 and a beastmode stat line. Its the difference between a mediocre support character and one that can provide excellent psychic support plus is a monster in melee.
2012/08/15 10:13:31
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
I'm thinking of running a defensive/gunline list on Thursday, but don't really have any idea where to start with it. Can you guys help me brainstorm a list together? Its 1500 points I can proxy pretty much any model, as for vehicles I have 3 rhino chassis tanks which can proxy as any tank that size, a land speeder, 3 dreadnoughts, a land raider and a stormraven. All of these can proxy as anything there size. And infantry wise I should be able to field any model. Give me some ideas please
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a bit of an experiment I'm going to run this list tomorrow
Mephiston 250
Sanguinary Priests Power Sword, SB - Jump Packs 93
10 x Assualt Marines 2 Meltaguns Powerfist Sgt. 235
10 x Assualt Marines 2 Meltaguns Powerfist Sgt. 235
5 x Scout snipers, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks 100
5 x Scout snipers, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks 100
Ran the above list last night, against chaos space marines, it pretty much owned face. The Baal predators moved up in a scary av13 wall and tore down nearly a whole squad of marines first turn, krak missiles glanced a vindi to death. Meph instant feather kharn and assualt marines destroyed beserkers. Neither side had huge numbers left at the end of turn 7 but it was a dominant performance. My next match against this chaos army will be a 3k battle and I will post my list later.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/17 11:44:58
Eldercaveman wrote:I'm thinking of running a defensive/gunline list on Thursday, but don't really have any idea where to start with it. Can you guys help me brainstorm a list together? Its 1500 points I can proxy pretty much any model, as for vehicles I have 3 rhino chassis tanks which can proxy as any tank that size, a land speeder, 3 dreadnoughts, a land raider and a stormraven. All of these can proxy as anything there size. And infantry wise I should be able to field any model. Give me some ideas please
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a bit of an experiment I'm going to run this list tomorrow
Mephiston 250
Sanguinary Priests Power Sword, SB - Jump Packs 93
10 x Assualt Marines 2 Meltaguns Powerfist Sgt. 235
10 x Assualt Marines 2 Meltaguns Powerfist Sgt. 235
5 x Scout snipers, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks 100
5 x Scout snipers, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks 100
Ran the above list last night, against chaos space marines, it pretty much owned face. The Baal predators moved up in a scary av13 wall and tore down nearly a whole squad of marines first turn, krak missiles glanced a vindi to death. Meph instant feather kharn and assualt marines destroyed beserkers. Neither side had huge numbers left at the end of turn 7 but it was a dominant performance. My next match against this chaos army will be a 3k battle and I will post my list later.
Perhaps fit a vindi in there? Perhaps remove a baal? Or the devastators. Remove the sword on the SP, no need since he'll prolly get challenged and you'll decline anyways Otherwise a stable list I'd say
2012/08/18 17:12:18
Subject: 6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
Eldercaveman wrote:I'm thinking of running a defensive/gunline list on Thursday, but don't really have any idea where to start with it. Can you guys help me brainstorm a list together? Its 1500 points I can proxy pretty much any model, as for vehicles I have 3 rhino chassis tanks which can proxy as any tank that size, a land speeder, 3 dreadnoughts, a land raider and a stormraven. All of these can proxy as anything there size. And infantry wise I should be able to field any model. Give me some ideas please
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a bit of an experiment I'm going to run this list tomorrow
Mephiston 250
Sanguinary Priests Power Sword, SB - Jump Packs 93
10 x Assualt Marines 2 Meltaguns Powerfist Sgt. 235
10 x Assualt Marines 2 Meltaguns Powerfist Sgt. 235
5 x Scout snipers, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks 100
5 x Scout snipers, Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks 100
Ran the above list last night, against chaos space marines, it pretty much owned face. The Baal predators moved up in a scary av13 wall and tore down nearly a whole squad of marines first turn, krak missiles glanced a vindi to death. Meph instant feather kharn and assualt marines destroyed beserkers. Neither side had huge numbers left at the end of turn 7 but it was a dominant performance. My next match against this chaos army will be a 3k battle and I will post my list later.
Perhaps fit a vindi in there? Perhaps remove a baal? Or the devastators. Remove the sword on the SP, no need since he'll prolly get challenged and you'll decline anyways Otherwise a stable list I'd say
I have actually been finding it more difficult to keep priests out of combat, than in fifth because of the extra pile-in moves, and yes I will refuse challenges with him when I have the opportunity, but I find the sword gives him a bit more bite, when I can't keep him safe. The devastators where worth there weight in gold, I think I'll add a second squad at 2k and a vindicator, I really enjoyed playing with my Preds as I never used to, and they're are one of my favourite BA angels units fluff wise, which is more often than not bigger for me than the maths of playing them. Thanks for the comments.
I'm pretty much loving the card powers on BA librarians. I mean, the funniest option is taking Mephiston and rolling Iron Arm, but there are other, plentiful possibilities. Getting Hallucination on your librarian, if you can roll well (which I happened to do ) can WRECK a lot of good units even if you go in slightly weakened, and debuffing a unit in terms of potentially emasculating them in close combat, and Invisibility is obviously highly potent as well, as the prospect of making a Swarmlord hit on a 5+ is almost hilarious, and the amazing cover saves are worth the warp charge.
Obviously, YMMV but I'm loving the Telepathy discipline and how it helps the BACC situation in 6th ed, as I was initially discouraged by the nerf to Furious Charge.
No one Provokes me with Impunity Atlas' Blood Oath - In progress, 22W 14L 4T (2012) - 14W 6L 0T (2013)
Craftworld Mymeara 440 points - in progress (....sort of a given ) - 4W 2L 0T (2013)
DQ:90S++G+M-B--IPw40k13++D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+ Where beautiful and brilliant people go to hang out - Lord Sanguinius' fb page
2012/08/26 02:34:04
Subject: Re:6th ed and Blood Angels (UPDATED! OP with army lists up for commentary/usage! updated July 20)
No one Provokes me with Impunity
Craftworld Mymeara 
440 points - in progress (....sort of a given 
) - 4W 2L 0T (2013)
Task Force Rath : 5000
Deathwatch: 4000
6000+ 
2000pts in 
with 
allies 1850pts finished
) can WRECK a lot of good units even if you go in slightly weakened, and debuffing a unit in terms of potentially emasculating them in close combat, and Invisibility is obviously highly potent as well, as the prospect of making a Swarmlord hit on a 5+ is almost hilarious, and the amazing cover saves are worth the warp charge.