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Wow: I've been going back and for with this for a while. Great points on both sides.

I think we can all agree that specific codex rules take presidence over general rules.

With this in mind, the vindicare player assigns the wound.

If it were reassigned it would break RAW.

This is also RAI IMO as it is a dead shot.

The argument that it targets two models is creative, but would only take effect if the opposing player (needlessly) performed a LoS.

Even if the LoS occurred, the wound is *still* allocated by the vindacare player as per the specific codex rule.

Just my $0.01. Thank you for concidering!

Corinthius wrote:

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:LOS is kinda referred to as reallocation (last line of the rule) so, much like a reroll, it can be assumed that the initial allocation never happened.
But hey that is me trying to justify the most logical resolution.

Exactly right, the initial hit never happens. I don't know why people are struggling so hard with that concept. I'm not even that sure why this thread exists it seems so obvious. You can only hurt what you hit, thats the point of LOS, someone else takes the hit so they get hurt instead not as well! The LOS roll determines whether or not you hit your target or someone blocks your shot. If they pass LOS then you never hit the first guy, just because you rolled a dice to hit already doesn't mean that you hit your intended target as thats what LOS is there for! Thats the point of it!

Unfortunately, every edition of 40K is often rules-lawyered to death, and this one is no exception. Common sense says, the wound is reallocated to the LOS model, but since GW thought its players generally had some degree of common sense and didn't spell it out 100%, we get arguments about it. Yes, it would have been nice if GW actually used consistent wording/phrasing in its rules, but as we all know, thats never going to happen, so lets stop lawyering and apply a little common sense to the rules.

Here's a good rule of thumb, if your interpretation of a rule makes absolutely no sense in a narrative way (meaning you can't explain how it would work in a realistic or logical manner), its probably a good idea to rethink it from a more grounded perspective.

The problem is that the vindacare's wounds "are *always* allocated by the vindicare's controlling player".

The key word here is "always". The wounds are *always* allocated by the vindicare's player.

So even if LoS takes effect, the wound is still *always* allocated to that target. Always.


1) two models would not be effected by shield breaker as it is always allocated to the target.
2) LoS has no use against shield breaker as the wounds are always allocated to the target.


Remember, codex takes precedent over the brb, so the vindicare trumps the LoS rule.

This is a tricky rule with ambiguous suggestions. I would say common sense would dictate that GW would not give a rule to a character that has no use for it since he already has precision shot... Or am I assuming too much

That's my other $0.01

xAndurilx wrote:
The problem is that the vindacare's wounds "are *always* allocated by the vindicare's controlling player".

The key word here is "always". The wounds are *always* allocated by the vindicare's player.

So even if LoS takes effect, the wound is still *always* allocated to that target. Always.


1) two models would not be effected by shield breaker as it is always allocated to the target.
2) LoS has no use against shield breaker as the wounds are always allocated to the target.

Yes the Vindicare ALWAYS allocates and when you allocate to my character you have successfully done that.
However I am free to attempt to reallocate using LOS and neither rule has not been followed.

xAndurilx wrote:
Remember, codex takes precedent over the brb, so the vindicare trumps the LoS rule.

Yes codex trumps BRB but only when there is a clash and there is no clash between LOS and the Vindicare rule.

xAndurilx wrote:
This is a tricky rule with ambiguous suggestions. I would say common sense would dictate that GW would not give a rule to a character that has no use for it since he already has precision shot... Or am I assuming too much

It just so happens that it is an old rule that doesn't work the same after a new core ruleset comes out.
The rule is still useful for taking out non-character special weapons etc.
And Precision Shot only works on 6s so the Vindicare is even better at it.

The rules for allocating a wound consists of rolling the save and reducing the wound level by 1. It is not a separate process.

LoS makes it so that a wound that is allocated to a character is taken by another model *instead*.

Dead shot prevents this by having the wound *always* allocated to the vindicare player's choice.

I understand it is confusing, and I apologize for not being more clear.

xAndurilx wrote:
The rules for allocating a wound consists of rolling the save and reducing the wound level by 1. It is not a separate process.

LoS makes it so that a wound that is allocated to a character is taken by another model *instead*.

Dead shot prevents this by having the wound *always* allocated to the vindicare player's choice.

I understand it is confusing, and I apologize for not being more clear.

Yes, it's "always" allocated by the vindicare player. That requirement is fulfilled and finished when he chooses the character. It is then "re-allocated" to another model via LoS!.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Yes, it's "always" allocated by the vindicare player. That requirement is fulfilled and finished when he chooses the character. It is then "re-allocated" to another model via LoS!.

Exactly. Which is why the initial target loses their invulnerable save, as the allocation condition has been fulfilled

xAndurilx wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Yes, it's "always" allocated by the vindicare player. That requirement is fulfilled and finished when he chooses the character. It is then "re-allocated" to another model via LoS!.

Exactly. Which is why the initial target loses their invulnerable save, as the allocation condition has been fulfilled

And overridden by the LoS! intervention as the initial allocation is no longer valid.

It's a magic bullet/second shooter scenario that just doesn't play well with the new rules.

It's not overridden as it has already been allocated. For the "reallocation" to even occur, the wound must be allocated, at which point the shield braker triggers. No magic bullet, just a busted HQ. :(

Anyway you swing it, the wound was allocated, and is "always" allocated by the vindicare player.

This is a great debate though.

And if LOS! is successful you re-allocate the wound.

Happyjew wrote:
And if LOS! is successful you re-allocate the wound.

Which isn't possible as vindicare's Player always allocates the wound.
Always

Codex trumps brb.

Love ur name btw

RIght, you roll to hit, roll to wound, and allocate it to Sergeant Bob. Now, as it is my turn, and Sarge Bob has an unsaved wound (assuming no cover save here), I have permission to attempt LOS! (as there is nothing prohibiting it). If I pass the wound is re-allocated to a different model. It is exactly the same as Precision Shot.

I think a good deal of the confusion is about a new rule versus and old rule that trumps a new rule.

If this rule was written in the next codex, I'm confident that we wouldn't be discussing this as the wound is *always* allocated by the vindicare player, regardless of any rule in the brb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:
RIght, you roll to hit, roll to wound, and allocate it to Sergeant Bob. Now, as it is my turn, and Sarge Bob has an unsaved wound (assuming no cover save here), I have permission to attempt LOS! (as there is nothing prohibiting it). If I pass the wound is re-allocated to a different model. It is exactly the same as Precision Shot.

It is very similar to Precision Shot, but with a major difference: the vindicar's player always allocates the wound. Because this is written in a codex, it also trumps any basic rule which would allow for reallocation as the vindicare player always allocates the wound.
So the defending player would not have permission to reassign the wound, unless it was in another codex.

If the rule is written in the next codex it won't be so ambiguous.

Also, you're so stuck on this word "always" as if that requirement is not being fulfilled. I do not think this word means what you think it means.

 Kevin949 wrote:
If the rule is written in the next codex it won't be so ambiguous.

Also, you're so stuck on this word "always" as if that requirement is not being fulfilled. I do not think this word means what you think it means.

Inconceivable! (for your Princess Bride reference of the day)

If the "requirement has been fulfilled", then the target loses their invulnerable save.

The word "always" makes all the difference. The vindicare player always allocates the wound, trumping any other basic rule for reallocating.

xAndurilx wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
If the rule is written in the next codex it won't be so ambiguous.

Also, you're so stuck on this word "always" as if that requirement is not being fulfilled. I do not think this word means what you think it means.

Inconceivable! (for your Princess Bride reference of the day)

If the "requirement has been fulfilled", then the target loses their invulnerable save.

The word "always" makes all the difference. The vindicare player always allocates the wound, trumping any other basic rule for reallocating.

Circular argument is circular. No point continuing.