Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!

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**Taarnak**

cincydooley wrote:
Sinful Hero wrote:
Super Dungeon Explore is also a Soda Pop game, so I wouldn't be all doom and gloom just yet. I've noticed C'MON sells kingdom death minis(I suppose acting as a distributor?)at conventions. Not saying C'MON has anything to do with Poots' work, but he at least has enough confidence in them to sell his stuff. I have a feeling C'MON got caught up trying to get too much through the door at once.

I think its important to note that the Robotech KS, of which CMoN has no involvement , is also struggling right now with Ninja(Soda) Division (Pop) and that all of CMoNs 100% internal KSes have been delivered early or on time....

It's just as important to note that Ninja Division's partner in that venture is Palladium Books, a company notorious for double-speak, empty promises, and massive delays.

I still don't see anything convincing that lays the blame on Soda Pop and not CMoN (or maybe some combination thereof).

~Eric

Edit:
Also, isn't Wrath of Kings the only 100% CMoN Kickstarter so far?

**Forar**

We may never know for certain, but while there are all kinds of reasons Robotech in particular may be delayed (three teams needing to bounce changes and authorization around, Palladium's well deserved reputation, etc), ND's involvement was touted at the launch of the campaign as a driving force in what would help keep the standards high and the project on time. They had all this experience, you see! Of course, given the timing of the launch, I wish I'd looked a little closer into ND's various members, including SP, as Relic Knights was hitting their big "Whelp, bad news everybody..." period not too long before Robotech launched.

Is it fair to lay all the blame at SP's feet? No, likely not. At ND's? Probably not, I'm sure Palladium and Harmony Gold carry some of that burden as well. But at the same time, two big projects, both associated with at least some aspects of SP, both with 2-7+ month delays? It might be a coincidence, but that's not my first thought, and as things draw out for both (I didn't back RK, just observing here), my inclination to give them the benefit of the doubt weakens.

**Taarnak**

@Forar: The only folks being discussed here that I am unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt are Palladium, despite being burned by CMoN when it was New Wave Games...

I just see folks (cincy in particular) saying that it is 100% Soda Pop's fault without any real strong evidence to support that.

~Eric

**Forar**

I don't disagree.

Just giving my perspective as someone who didn't have much contact with SP's previous endeavors, and am now rectifying that a little.

**Catyrpelius**

Taarnak wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
Sinful Hero wrote:
Super Dungeon Explore is also a Soda Pop game, so I wouldn't be all doom and gloom just yet. I've noticed C'MON sells kingdom death minis(I suppose acting as a distributor?)at conventions. Not saying C'MON has anything to do with Poots' work, but he at least has enough confidence in them to sell his stuff. I have a feeling C'MON got caught up trying to get too much through the door at once.

I think its important to note that the Robotech KS, of which CMoN has no involvement , is also struggling right now with Ninja(Soda) Division (Pop) and that all of CMoNs 100% internal KSes have been delivered early or on time....

It's just as important to note that Ninja Division's partner in that venture is Palladium Books, a company notorious for double-speak, empty promises, and massive delays.

I still don't see anything convincing that lays the blame on Soda Pop and not CMoN (or maybe some combination thereof).

~Eric

Edit:
Also, isn't Wrath of Kings the only 100% CMoN Kickstarter so far?

They did Guilds of Cadwallen as well.

Production delays don't really bother me. I've done enough work with Chinese manufacturing to know that they work alittle bit different then manufaturing in the western world. Chinese manufacturing is great when they can carry over a process from another project or you give them pretty detailed directions. They don't have a high individual initiative culture... I'll use the bases as an example. It's highly likely that they copied the design for the production mold from another project with the hope/understanding that what worked for one base will work for another. When they wen't into production they found they had problems. In more western manufacturing the problem would probably have been identified and brought to light by someone in the manufacturing chain. I'm not sure if what I'm trying to say makes sense to anyone but me though.

**Wehrkind**

I'm picking up what you're putting down, Caty.

**cincydooley**

Taarnak wrote:
@Forar: The only folks being discussed here that I am unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt are Palladium, despite being burned by CMoN when it was New Wave Games...

I just see folks (cincy in particular) saying that it is 100% Soda Pop's fault without any real strong evidence to support that.

~Eric

The major delay (the 6th month one) was 100% due to Soda Pop delivering only 11 of 33 new minature renders to be produced from the KS stretches to CMoN by their due date. Failing to meet this due date lost them their spot in the manufacturers' production line, with the next open spot being 6th months later.

Additionally, Guiolltine Games is nearly completely a design studio. CMoN handled every asset of product creation for Zombicide. It's effectively an internal effort. Zombicide 1 shipped early. Zombicide 2 shipped SLIGHTLY late (like, 30 days) in part due to the gigantic amount of unique orders (nearly 10,000). The shipping delay would have been less of an internet shitstorm had they not sold Zombicide S2 at GenCon, even though plenty of their backers had no problem with that, as NOT taking a new product to GenCon is moronic.

**DaveC**

again from SPM forum

Question:
You have said a few times that you have no idea when they will ship just that they said it should be before Chinese New Year. Where is production on these models (to give us a better estimate) 85%, 95%, 98% (just waiting on token / base retool)? And how much longer do you estimate before production is completed? If these are not shipped before the factories close for Chinese New Year is there a back up plan?

Answer:
We have received word from China that they will be doing the test run on the token molds on December 8th. Once this test run has been finished they will inform us of the results and then provide us with a new ready date. Production with then proceed faction by faction. We have also been told that they will do everything they can to get it done before the Chinese New Year. If it does run into the New Year there is nothing that we can do about that. We will have to wait it out for the three weeks and then immediately pick back up. Hopefully we can avoid that altogether. We will be giving you production updates as we receive them. This information will be in a Kickstarter update soon as well.

I'm getting the feeling this will run into March now.

**Alpharius**

Ugh - no doubt.

For some reason I thought this one was shipping in December/January latest.

If they haven't started doing production runs of any of the faction's miniatures yet - yeah, March is looking more likely.

If we're lucky..

**RiTides**

Wow, just passed that update on to my friends who pledged for this... they're not going to be happy. Especially with the delay in telling backers the state of things and the impending delays... again.

**CptJake**

RiTides wrote:
Wow, just passed that update on to my friends who pledged for this... they're not going to be happy. Especially with the delay in telling backers the state of things and the impending delays... again.

Interestingly I got an email response from a Ross when inquiring about a refund today. In part he said:

We are very close to shipping though, and the wait will not be much longer.

Got that about 2 hours ago.

**Buzzsaw**

An interesting thing stuck out as I was reading that;

Deke provides the following answer;

Question:
In regards to the issue with the sizing issues with the final packages...is this due to CMoN trying to utilize what has become their standard cookie cutter boxed game with plastic inserts? Or what exactly is the issue with the packaging?

Answer:
I’m actually not certain what you’re referring to. I have personally overseen the creation of the packaging and we have no sizing issues. Most of the box sizes you will actually recognize from our Super Dungeon Explore products.

This would seem to directly contradict a statement CMON made in the last update;

While they are finalizing those elements, we are taking that time to address a few sizing issues with final packaging we caught at the last minute. After these final tweaks are done, we should be able to begin assembling your individual orders and getting them out to you and will update again when we begin.

An interestingly quick answer from Deke;

Ah, thank you Falkenburg. The SDE Kasaro-To had one arm that didn't fit in the box correctly. We wrapped that up the same day it was brought to our attention. I will edit the Q&A answer accordingly.

Fascinating. Note that the update from CMON refers to "a few sizing issues with final packaging" that would be dealt with during the delay. An interesting way of referring to a single, immediately resolved...

**cincydooley**

Oi vey

**lord_blackfang**

March... 2015

**Alpharius**

It won't be 2015, but it most likely won't be early 2014 either now.

**Wehrkind**

*sigh* I think I am going to start a betting pool on whether this gets unboxed before my second child.

Any takers? RiTides?

**Catyrpelius**

Project Update #97: Production Update
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like

Hello Everyone,
In cooperation with Cool Mini or Not, Soda Pop Miniatures will be taking point on Relic Knight communications directly through Kickstarter. We will be posting updates, answering your PMs, and engaging with you through the comments section. We also encourage you to take part in the ongoing discussions on Soda Pop Miniatures forums available here: http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/index.php

First off, we would like to address some concerns that have been voiced regarding the 360 turnaround models and the visible mold lines on many of the models. These are from small sample production runs from the production molds and print materials for the purpose of verifying box contents and QC approvals – these are then modified to address any issues like excessive flash or printing errors on boxes or cards. As we go forward we will be presenting studio shots of the models that will be making it into your boxes.

We are anticipating the results of the token test run soon and hopefully will get some photos of the new acceptable token test shots out to you all.

We have also been told that they will do everything they can to get it done before the start of the Chinese New Year (January 31st). If it does run into the New Year , we will have to wait it out for the three weeks and then immediately pick back up. Hopefully we can avoid that altogether as it should be a relatively small issue to correct but we thought you all would appreciate the heads up. We will be giving you production updates as we receive them.

The plan, as mentioned in a previous update, is to have all finished product for Asia Pacific and Europe packed and ready for shipping from China and Germany as soon as possible – a process known as break bulk shipping where finished address packages are shipped in bulk to a logistics hub and then broken up for mailing. This will help considerably in saving time getting Relic Knight to all of you outside the USA. USA and the rest of the world packages will still be packed in the USA, what this means is that Asia Pacific and European backers should receive their games around the same time as USA backers.

We know that the road has been long but the end is in sight, and both SPM and CMON are working diligently to get Relic Knights in your hands and onto your game tables! We thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm,

–Soda Pop Miniatures

On another note, they are supposed to have a tournament at Templecon. I'm really hoping to have models in time.

**RiTides**

Wehrkind wrote:
*sigh* I think I am going to start a betting pool on whether this gets unboxed before my second child.

Any takers? RiTides?

I might take that bet

they'd have what, at least a year to get it done, right?

And yeah, that TempleCon tourney is looking very unlikely now.

**Catyrpelius**

RiTides wrote:
Wehrkind wrote:
*sigh* I think I am going to start a betting pool on whether this gets unboxed before my second child.

Any takers? RiTides?

I might take that bet they'd have what, at least a year to get it done, right?

And yeah, that TempleCon tourney is looking very unlikely now.

I was actually talking about this with someone earlier. Apparently 50 resources is only between 2 and 12 models, the stat cards are avalible on the media section of their website. I might actually own enough of the resin and metal stuff that I don't actually need any of the new plastics.

**Alpharius**

What are the odds you show up with the only playable force and win by default!

**Catyrpelius**

Alpharius wrote:
What are the odds you show up with the only playable force and win by default!

I like those odds!

**Azazelx**

Alpharius wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Doctrine Academy Guard are huge! Very impressed with them. I didn't get any, but they do look nice.

And good to see that everything is finally done. Time to withdraw our pledges!

Did Azazelx even pledge for RK?!?

I actually did, early on. I had to drop it because I couldn't afford to stay in on both this and some other competing campaign that was on at the same time, though I did like the look of both Noh and Black Diamond. Well, I dropped to $1, so I still get the updates, and at the time I was still one for moral support to CMON, etc.

**Alpharius**

You should demand a refund!

Noh and Black Diamond still look really good, Shattered Sword looks WAY better than initially previewed (so much so that I added their full faction offerings on - thanks Buzzsaw!), and I'm OK with the Pirates and the Racing Team.

**Cyporiean**

Catyrpelius wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
What are the odds you show up with the only playable force and win by default!

I like those odds!

I'd suggest at least bringing what you've got; I'm still somewhat upset I didn't bring my Wood Elves to Adepticon this year, there were only 6 people for the KOW tourney.

**Azazelx**

cincydooley wrote:
Zombicide 2 shipped SLIGHTLY late (like, 30 days) in part due to the gigantic amount of unique orders (nearly 10,000). The shipping delay would have been less of an internet shitstorm had they not sold Zombicide S2 at GenCon, even though plenty of their backers had no problem with that, as NOT taking a new product to GenCon is moronic.

Speaking for myself, I don't have an issue with them being at Gencon. I took issue with the incredibly slow rate of shipping, post-Gencon and the poor communication/non supply issues since then and when they're not pimping another KS or PM. My missing items are supposed to be resolved today from their end. I'll update with what happens.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:

Noh and Black Diamond still look really good,

Yeah, they do. I'd probably have gone in for them via PM, but it never happened in the end.

**cincydooley**

At this point I have no Idea when this freakin thing is going to ship.

**CptJake**

cincydooley wrote:
At this point I have no Idea when this freakin thing is going to ship.

Don't feel bad. Neither does Soda Pop Miniatures.

**cincydooley**

CptJake wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
At this point I have no Idea when this freakin thing is going to ship.

Don't feel bad. Neither does Soda Pop Miniatures.

Well played sir. They really don't.

**warboss**

cincydooley wrote:

I think its important to note that the Robotech KS, of which CMoN has no involvement , is also struggling right now with Ninja(Soda) Division (Pop) and that all of CMoNs 100% internal KSes have been delivered early or on time....

A friend of mine has both RK and Robotech pledges and I'm curious to see which if any arrive over the next two to three months. If the below is supposedly true, they apparently haven't carried it over to the Robotech project as Ninja Division has been utterly silent about Robotech except for cut/pasting weeks old Palladium "news"... which is in and of itself usually a cut and paste job from week to week.

Question:
With all the troubles, why has SPM pulled away from the comments section of KS, and to a small extent, the entire Relic Knight KS? Is it the animosity some of us (yes, I am a backer, and a vocal one) have shown?

Answer:
CMON had their people looking after the Kickstarter. Nonetheless we should have used our own channels such as facebook and our website to keep in better contact with you. Something we are working hard to rectify. We have also requested access and will be engaging personally through the Kickstarter from now on. This however will remain my (Deke’s) definitive Q&A thread. Ross will be our main man on the Kickstarter front from here out

**lord_blackfang**

I'm kind of shifting back and forth between being sorry I didn't pledge for the Noh (they suddenly look really good) and being sorry I pledged anything at all...