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I don't know how familiar you are with females in sci-fi and fantasy environments, but the SOB are very, very very far removed from the 'sexy and titillating' end of the spectrum...there's barely anything remotely feminine about them.

I didn't say the Sisters were at the extreme end in Leia Slave Girl/Conan Minx in billowing veil, but I do think they fall well on the sexy side of the spectrum. Boobs, bobs, butts (where visible), long, shapely legs (and if chicks in skin tight leather/plate armor strutting their BFGs doesn't do it for you, well, if you're a straight dude you're in a very small club).

Seriously, Aeryn Sun, Chani from Lynch's Dune, Starbuck from SciFi BSG, Ivanova from B5... There are a ton of examples of very obviously female fighting women in science fiction before you even graze up against the line where your figures need DDD breasts, lipstick, perfectly coiffed hair and legs that would make a vegas showgirl look like Vina in her slave girl guise. There's no reason the Sisters couldn't have been modeled after a Fremen or Peacekeeper uniform if not to emphasize the womanly bits in totally unnecessary ways.

 variable wrote:

I don't know how familiar you are with females in sci-fi and fantasy environments, but the SOB are very, very very far removed from the 'sexy and titillating' end of the spectrum...there's barely anything remotely feminine about them.

I didn't say the Sisters were at the extreme end in Leia Slave Girl/Conan Minx in billowing veil, but I do think they fall well on the sexy side of the spectrum. Boobs, bobs, butts (where visible), long, shapely legs (and if chicks in skin tight leather/plate armor strutting their BFGs doesn't do it for you, well, if you're a straight dude you're in a very small club).

Seriously, Aeryn Sun, Chani from Lynch's Dune, Starbuck from SciFi BSG, Ivanova from B5... There are a ton of examples of very obviously female fighting women in science fiction before you even graze up against the line where your figures need DDD breasts, lipstick, perfectly coiffed hair and legs that would make a vegas showgirl look like Vina in her slave girl guise. There's no reason the Sisters couldn't have been modeled after a Fremen or Peacekeeper uniform if not to emphasize the womanly bits in totally unnecessary ways.

Lets move on to the real outrage in 40K: Giant codpieces!!! I am outraged and demand resculpts of all oversized codpieces...

gak, I think that armor looks better. I dunno, it's more aesthetically pleasing (even if it doesn't have b00bs). I don't care about realism in 40k (my army is a bunch of undead, 10,000 year old disease bloated super soldiers armed with machine guns that shot rocket propelled grenades), but I would prefer that armor.

wow....are we really asking if boobs are SoB's main selling point? -.-

if your playing sisters because of little metal boobs then you need to take a long hard look at yourself

while I think that the picture in the OP looks worse I wouldnt stop playing my army because of it. I came here to play a fun shooty army with cool fluff and a SC that just wont die....not snigger at boobs

I really like the look of the flat breastplate. Looks better functionaly and still maintains a feminine look by using the typical female curve body shape rather than being lazy and just making boobs. Think of the typical male body shape with regards to broad shoulders and how it applys to space marine armour.

I know 40k isn't meant for realism so its a moot point any way but there have been plenty of articles that look at the fantasy style 'breast' plate and point out that.

a) it is more difficult to craft
b) The armour itself is physicaly weaker as there is no easy way to attach the breasts
C) offers less protection, the curved breasts directing blades towards the throat and heart rather than away
d) the amount of padding that is worn under plate armour is so thick that there would be no bumps left making the moulded plate breasts empty cups.

In fact that last point, most women in combat situations or even just contact sports can quite simply tape their breasts down so that they do not get in the way.

variable wrote:Seriously, Aeryn Sun, Chani from Lynch's Dune, Starbuck from SciFi BSG, Ivanova from B5... There are a ton of examples of very obviously female fighting women in science fiction before you even graze up against the line where your figures need DDD breasts, lipstick, perfectly coiffed hair and legs that would make a vegas showgirl look like Vina in her slave girl guise.

I think you're exaggerating a bit. Where did you get the "DDD" size from, and what exactly is wrong with the SoB minis' legs now? Same with the hair; this kind of bob is probably one of the least difficult of all haircuts.

Consider this: The Sisters of Battle are the female equivalent to the Space Marines. Where Marines have their masculinity stressed, the Sisters do it with their femininity.
Do people perceive this as "wrong" because it sexualises them, or because it makes them more of a woman operating in a traditionally male area? Psychology hard at work, I know. Conversely, is it wrong that the Space Marines are sexualised? Few people criticise that, because strangely there it's okay, if not expected.

Madcat87 wrote:C) offers less protection, the curved breasts directing blades towards the throat and heart rather than away

Again, the armour does come with a neckguard. It might also be worth pointing out that it would not be too difficult to reinforce that small area between the breasts you are convinced would invite more attacks. In fact, if you would actually look at the minis, ...

 variable wrote:


I didn't say the Sisters were at the extreme end in Leia Slave Girl/Conan Minx in billowing veil, but I do think they fall well on the sexy side of the spectrum. Boobs, bobs, butts (where visible), long, shapely legs

Soo... because they have female anatomy, they are therefore sluts?

Uh....

Anyone that is worried about the chest area been prone to extra damage are forgetting the un-helmeted SPace Marines :'D

I must say I prefer the fan art to the over-sexualize version that we have today. Having a hint of femininity in the miniatures doesn't hurt, but overdoing it like Madonna or Lady Gaga outfits is an entire different thing.
Yes, the Roman and Greek armors exaggerated the human body (muscles, breasts etc. ) but the medieval armor moved away from it, at least from what I have seen.
Looking pictures of Joan of Arc and Elizabeth 1st for instance the exaggerated features wasn't there.

So cut back a little on it. SoB aren't Daemonettes yet.

AL-PiXeL01 wrote:
the over-sexualize version that we have today

I really don't think the SoB are sexualised at all, let alone over sexualised.

The models emphasise their boobs yeah, but they do it so the models are instantly recognizable as feminine, which can be hard to do with 28mm models without resorting to scantily clad/nude models.

Infinity are doing it right :'D

I would love it if they gave SoB real armor. If I wanted boobs, I'd play slaanesh. Whatever respect I gain for their femininity by having them more female-shaped, I more than lose by the stupidity of not only how they look, but how impractical it would be.

They are women, but I would only be interested in playing them if they were WARRIOR women. Taking a lady and giving her a gun and calling that enough is silly. I just wouldn't be able to take the army seriously otherwise. If I wanted guardsmen with bewbs, I'd put the bewbs on the guardsmen.

Of course, they would also gain a lot by having real fluff too...

 LunaHound wrote:
Anyone that is worried about the chest area been prone to extra damage are forgetting the un-helmeted SPace Marines :'D

>Implying I don't stick helmets on all my marines.
I don't even play marines and this isn't 4chan, why am I trying to greentext? In all seriousness I stick helmets on all of my guardsmen except for one unit where everyone is helmetless because I wanted to get rid of my helmetless heads. I will eventually paint them and come up with some fluff for them, probably something incredibly stupid.

Buttons wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Anyone that is worried about the chest area been prone to extra damage are forgetting the un-helmeted SPace Marines :'D

>Implying I don't stick helmets on all my marines.
I don't even play marines and this isn't 4chan, why am I trying to greentext? In all seriousness I stick helmets on all of my guardsmen except for one unit where everyone is helmetless because I wanted to get rid of my helmetless heads. I will eventually paint them and come up with some fluff for them, probably something incredibly stupid.

The point is, most of the characters from Space Marine and its chapters, or anyone with importance doesn't wear any helmet.
Yet some how they have survived long enough to reach such position of importance.
Yet again no one questions that, however they do question about BOOBIES ARMOR ( especially from bunch of weirdos that rubs oil and chants onto machines ).

That is just silly Pinky Pie silly

I wasn't aware SOB were popular in the first place!
Really though, as mentioned by others, it's hard to distinguish women from men in bulky power armor at 28mm scale. While the sketch looks great, they'd have to make the minis large to keep them both slender and bulky enough to be in power armor. It's bound to be exaggerated. Once you put someone in power armor things like hips, leg shapes, etc all go right out the window. Unless there are breasts or no helmets I'm not sure what else you could do short of having a sign hanging around their neck that says "woman".

I remember when I painted one of my first sisters of battle and showed my dad. His remark was "He has stupid hair but good job painting him." Of course I corrected it and then when he took another look he said "oh haha didn't see the boobs there."

If anything sisters models are not some over sexualized monstrosities and removing what little bit they do have would be stupid. Yes their armor is impractical if it was a real suit. But realism is not the main goal of a FANTASY game.

That said, if the new models come out and can achieve both removal of the "boob armor" AND make the models look more feminine than they currently are I am all for it. I did really enjoy lunahounds "half way" point idea, that looked good.

Lynata

think you're exaggerating a bit. Where did you get the "DDD" size from, and what exactly is wrong with the SoB minis' legs now? Same with the hair; this kind of bob is probably one of the least difficult of all haircuts.

Those breasts are at least DDD. If you blew a SoB fig up to 12" tall those girls would make Barbie blush. The legs are long, curvy, shapely: not exactly unfemenine unless you know a lot of guys with legs like that. The Bob is Not one of the least difficult haircuts. A crew cut is. A bob requires maintenance, careful brushing, parting, a fair amount of product. My wife had one for the first 5 years of our marriage, just like the one the sisters have. Trust me, it's a fair amount of work. Remember how many times Starbuck had to brush the hair out of her eyes? She had half the hair you need for a bob.

Consider this: The Sisters of Battle are the female equivalent to the Space Marines. Where Marines have their masculinity stressed, the Sisters do it with their femininity.

Yeah, I don't really buy the premise. Whereas Marine armor exaggerates the attributes that emphasize the man of action, the Sisters emphasize those attributes that emphasize a runway model. Think of the terms you have just used, they are not equivalent in popular parlance, in fact they stress the very difference I am talking about. To most people Men being more masculine means they are tough, resilient where Women being femenine means they are more attractive to men, or more nurturing and soft. Science Fiction is rife with examples of tough women who are clearly female and exemplify what we call masculine traits. I feel the SoB emphasize the opposite even if they aren't in bikinis.

Do people perceive this as "wrong" because it sexualises them, or because it makes them more of a woman operating in a traditionally male area? Conversely, is it wrong that the Space Marines are sexualised? Few people criticise that, because strangely there it's okay, if not expected.

The 1st part, I think it emphasizes the wrong thing I want emphasized in my fantasy crusading nun army. The second part I definitely don't buy. There's nothing sexualized about SM figures At All. Catachan Jungle Fighters, sure, if that's what you're into, but not really. Women sexualize men in very different ways then (straight) men sexualize women. It's not even remotely reasonable to suggest that the emphasis of masculine traits (again, traits useful for fighting and doing hard work) and the emphasis on "femenine" traits (that in this case are coincidentally what men tend to call sexy and attractive) are equivalent.

Here is one of my Veterans I'm modeled into a Sergeant. This is my idea of a woman in combat in the 40th century. She's part of my Elysian Guard so I stylized her thusly, but I don't see anything inconsistent between her being female and her representing a strong looking fighter in my army (granted she also has the equivalent of DDDs as well). If I were going to tweak the Sister's I'd do it in much the way the OP did.




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Really though, as mentioned by others, it's hard to distinguish women from men in bulky power armor at 28mm scale.

Yeah, but, no. Not really. There are plenty of good examples of female figures that don't go for Pole Dancer Chic to get their point across-besides: Is the point of playing the sisters that they're a Female army, or that they're a codex you like to play? Does each figure in your army have to Scream that they're a girl from across the room when it's hard to pick out the Nobs from the Choppa Mob from more than a few feet away? For that matter, is the only reason women would get Womanly emphasis because they are such an exception in the world of 40K that they belong in the category of Eldar and Orks rather than the Imperium of Man: An Alien that needs to be modeled to show the extreme difference from the norm that is Human?

This doesn't look sexualized at all, anyone that says other wise bust be a.... ( am I allowed to say the V word? xD )
boob armor, check. fitting slender armor check, classy check.

Everything is ok! :3
now just sculpt a mini with same style.

 variable wrote:

Nice try.

This is a female in my army

D....K.... chan? is that you?

 Lynata wrote:

Madcat87 wrote:C) offers less protection, the curved breasts directing blades towards the throat and heart rather than away

Again, the armour does come with a neckguard. It might also be worth pointing out that it would not be too difficult to reinforce that small area between the breasts you are convinced would invite more attacks. In fact, if you would actually look at the minis, ...

Explanations from an experienced armourer who does this for a living explaining the issues with the female breastplate.

http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/

In one part he explains that a custom boob plate he had made for a women he is constantly worried that if she were to fall over the armour could crack her sternum.

THE ARMOUR ITSELF IS ACTUALLY A HEALTH HAZARD!

 Madcat87 wrote:


In one part he explains that a custom boob plate he had made for a women he is constantly worried that if she were to fall over the armour could crack her sternum.

THE ARMOUR ITSELF IS ACTUALLY A HEALTH HAZARD!

Easy, tell him to attach the abdominal region armor with the plate. Problem solved.

 LunaHound wrote:
D....K.... chan? is that you?

Nope, DK chan will be in squad 24, once I get the guardsmen/women models

Nice try.

This is a female in my army

Nice. Yeah, I had to shrug over converting my Krieg figs to femmes (not to mention my 2K+ Ork army) and settle for the ambiguity of having no idea what's under that mask and that coat. It's how a good platoon should work anyway, what's under the fatigues ain't as important as how well it works in the uniform.

 variable wrote:
Yeah, but, no. Not really. There are plenty of good examples of female figures that don't go for Pole Dancer Chic to get their point across-besides

This is ironic, since the SoB range is one of those examples of female figures that don't go for pole dance chic.

LunaHound

This doesn't look sexualized at all, anyone that says other wise bust be a

...a person with a very different opinion thatn you?

You know if the actual SoB unit stood alone I might be persuaded that that outfit, grossly enhanced breasts aside, falls into an enhanced woman armor category, much like the female freman outfits from dune. However, the shoes really take it out of Battle Sister and into Dominatrix Celestina category for me. I mean, what could be a very cool and very sexy suit of armor is totally undermined by the boobs and the shoes:

Here again:


But don't get me started on this:
http://lexicanumwiki.tumblr.com/image/28056910099

I actually saw a lot of cosplay variants of the SoB uniform where the women in them tweaked them to have more practical shoes, hair pulled back, or to cup their proportional sized breasts. I was pretty impressed with how just a few tweaks can leave someone still clearly femenine and very badass without undermining the womanhood of the wearer by hyping up the sexiness for the sake of the male gaze. It's just not necessary.


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Kaldor:

This is ironic, since the SoB range is one of those examples of female figures that don't go for pole dance chic.

You're saying that seriously, without a trace of irony yourself?

 KingDeath wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Just curious if any of you have ever seen a real piece of armour designed for a female fighter? Because they look just like what the current Sisters' models are wearing.

Since female warriors in armour were quite rare there aren't too many pictures about them.
The few i know about show them either in ringmail or rather "normal" ( that is, no boobarmour ) plate like this one

I hope that's not Joan of Arc. There is only one known image of her from her life time and she wasn't depicted in armour.

She was carrying a banner, had long hair and massive bustline. However it was a drawing by a commoner.

I believe the book in which I learned this was Women Warriors or Warrior Women sorry I can't remember the author. Also explains the whole Amazon confusion pretty well.

 LunaHound wrote:
If you increase the plate size from the upper torso up to the neck region, you can solve the problems mentioned, all at the same time still keeping the chest :'D

This one I like. It's pretty much the same approach I've used for things like my UAMC fanart: a flat plate over the breasts, but with the underside shaped to fit the body without giving her armoured cleavage.

Agreed Alex. I also really like that one. Instead of "half plate" its half boob plate. Genius.

I would really love if that was a redesign for them. Having some actually effective armor for women in fantasy/scifi miniature settings would be a nice breath of fresh air.