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Skriker wrote:Or their highly impractical and pretty stupid looking high-heeled boots for heaven's sake??

You mean the ones they don't have?

PS: Just stumbled over these. DO WANT!
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Sisters_of_Battle_-_Collectors_Guide#Unreleased_from_1997

 Skriker wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
Here is the question, why is everyone so worked up about the armor, and especially the chest part?

Why not get worked up on the thigh and leg armor too?
oh and the gauntlet as well?

Or their highly impractical and pretty stupid looking high-heeled boots for heaven's sake??

Skriker

....they don't /have/ high heeled boots.

Like at all. Not a single model in my just shy of 2000 points of sisters has heels.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

....they don't /have/ high heeled boots.

Yeah, I hope they fix that once they make the plastics. Along with the hair.

I'll answer with a question: Would the lack of boob plate improve SoB's popularity? I don't think they're "popular" because of their boobs, there are better boob plate models on the table(DE, because of newer models) and SoB players are still playing SoB. Their problem right now is that they're just one step from being renamed to "Grey Knight's armour paint", possibly because it isn't very catchy.

But to be on topic, if they're well designed and well within the style of WH40k(ie lot of skulls), then I wouldn't mind if they lost their boob plate, but I would hate it if the redesign is because of some silly gamer being insecure(Oh no, people I don't know are judging me!)... Because honestly, realism? In 40k? Half of the armies available can summon a lightning blizzard storm during a lava rain while shooting javelins made of blood, all with the power of "warp", and boob plates are the 1st "unrealistic" thing you find?!

Crimson wrote:Yeah, I hope they fix that once they make the plastics. Along with the hair.

100 lashes for you, heretic!

 Crimson wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

....they don't /have/ high heeled boots.

Yeah, I hope they fix that once they make the plastics. Along with the hair.

Seriously man? As much as I liked the high heeled boots in the artwork, I'm not sure if it would be a good idea army wide.
Maybe for a character or an assassin unit, but your grunts? Keep them as they are.
I don't see the problem with the hair though. Not the style anyway; all they have to do is make it less blocky and more like in the art.

Or at least make it optional. Like, you may have high heeled boots on your sisters, or just normal boots.
Everybody wins!

On the subject of boob plates in WH40k... When I showed my mom my first painted Howling Banshees, she asked, ". . . Shouldn't she be wearing some armor?" She thought they were nude, because of the form-fitting and skin-colored bodysuit. I painted their armor in Bleached Bone, by the way. Even though I've explained to her that that is their actual uniform color and they are wearing armor, and have showed her the thicker armor in places and the helmets and in-laid gems and everything . . . every time I take them out of their case, she says, "I still think they look naked."

My mom has some vision problems because her glasses are a bit old (she can't read the smaller, paper-back rulebooks from the starter kits) but still!

I have no issues with the boob plates on the Sororitas armor, personally. I liked that half-boob-plate, as one of you guys put it, that was posted earlier, with the flat plate over the top of the chest; it seemed like a nice compromise. But meh, I'd be fine with them so long as they're recognizably female and retain their holy warrior theme. And no, the female thing isn't, "for the boobs," or anything like that; I just prefer playing female characters in MMOs, and prefer playing armies with female models and stuff like that - part of why I also play Eldar.

Given the bad proportions of the models of the SoB line (heads too big, torso bit too short, etc..) I don't think you could them sexualized. Fully covered in armour, as well.

Compared to those BaneLegions models, really.

Pouncey wrote:I liked that half-boob-plate, as one of you guys put it, that was posted earlier, with the flat plate over the top of the chest; it seemed like a nice compromise.

How is that a compromise? That's Space Marine armour.

Having built armor for some women in my fighting group (live steel) I have never built the "boob plates". I just modfied the male pattern to accomadate the excess chest, and flared the armor more near the hips. It was never about showing the chest off as much as not getting hurt. When breasts are that close to the armor and the blow is a solid one, it just hurts and leaves unsightly bruises. Often female steel fighters will just deal with the male armor or often use a Churburrg breastplate which offers a ton of flexability. As for the GW version, I agree with many on here use Luna's pic. To create a more femine profile, widen the hips and thighs, take in the waist and neck. Walk behind your significant other and notice this is what their body does.

Having built armor for some women in my fighting group (live steel) I have never built the "boob plates". I just modfied the male pattern to accomadate the excess chest, and flared the armor more near the hips. It was never about showing the chest off as much as not getting hurt. When breasts are that close to the armor and the blow is a solid one, it just hurts and leaves unsightly bruises. Often female steel fighters will just deal with the male armor or often use a Churburrg breastplate which offers a ton of flexability. As for the GW version, I agree with many on here use Luna's pic. To create a more femine profile, widen the hips and thighs, take in the waist and neck. Walk behind your significant other and notice this is what their body does.

As an armor maker myself I can totally get behind that. I play at a fantasy LARP where we use real armor and my wife and I have been trying to come up with some good leather armor to fit her 36DDD upper half that also doesn't make her look like Xena. The best we can come up with looks mostly male with a barrel chest.

But when you are dealing with 1-inch tall humans though, I always was of the mind that you have to exaggerate unique details to make them stand out from the other figures. With guys that is the hands, head and muscles. With women it's making sure the butt as a shape (to an extent) and breasts.

Taking away the hyper-feminine look of the SoB risks making them look like skinny Space Marines with fleur de lys on them. Plus, the shape of a breast plate on a wargaming miniature isn't really as big an issue as this thread has made it out to be.

 Ghiest1 wrote:
Having built armor for some women in my fighting group (live steel) I have never built the "boob plates". I just modfied the male pattern to accomadate the excess chest, and flared the armor more near the hips. It was never about showing the chest off as much as not getting hurt. When breasts are that close to the armor and the blow is a solid one, it just hurts and leaves unsightly bruises. Often female steel fighters will just deal with the male armor or often use a Churburrg breastplate which offers a ton of flexability. As for the GW version, I agree with many on here use Luna's pic. To create a more femine profile, widen the hips and thighs, take in the waist and neck. Walk behind your significant other and notice this is what their body does.

How large are the pauldrons you make? This big?
If not, then let's just throw away the whole realism argument for SoB's armour.
PS: check out the guy's Buffaloes. That's old school kicks.

Nice, actually often they are semented and taper down the arm in a cheveron pattern and have quite a close fit, the gorget rides partially underneath them. This creates a heavier armor then the 16 ga. would on its own apply. Depending on the fighters wishes, they will be attached to the gorget and the shoulder straps or just the gorget with laces to the back and front plates. My personal armor is actually quite close fitting, due to a fighting style preference, thiers is not, and has cell foam coverd by apolestry leather for addtional padding, and they also wear a gambeson.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Gaah why doesn't anyone just look at the models for ffs!
There.Are.No.High.Heeled.Boots.
We've been over this about 3 times already; the only case of high heeled boots on the SoB was on an old art piece by Blanche from second edition.

So very sorry to offend your sensibilities...

Skriker

 Lynata wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Da fuq did I just see...people actually buy that?
She must have excellent reflexes and impenetrable skin.

To be fair, she fits right in with a setting like Conan. Or even D&D (-> Priestesses of Eilistraee).
Imho, things like these always need to be seen in comparison to the (fictional) culture they exist in. There can be instances where they are almost expected.

Naked men and women in Conan: Fine.
Naked men and women in LotR: Silly.
and likewise
Boob plates in 40k: Fine.
Boob plates in Star Wars: Silly.

I agree here. Banelords models look OK in the setting they are a part of, that is, Celtic England.

Sisters look OK as aprt of the setting they belong to as well.

8 pages of trudging is bit much, but I get the gist of what people are saying, so here are my two cents...

ok the current armour of the SoB is a little daft, as all womens bewbs vary in size, so considering all Sororitas are orphans and not genetically bred like the SM's I find their over endowment a tad bemusing to say the least. But considering the models originate in a time where things were overly stylised in GW's core systems, they don't look all that bad in comparison.

But the system has moved on, and so should they imo... Ok I'm currently collecting a SoB army via ebay, and they are metal, but mixing them up wit newer variants wouldn't be so bad, kinda like the SM's armour variants. I think they should have a boob section in their armour, but it should be redesigned, as when Joan of Arc wore her armour she strapped hers down with strips of hessian cloth. somewhere between the two would be best, as imo again there needs to be variation in boob sizes... although somehow I think people would do armies with the biggest boobs allowed.

As someone said on page one, the sisters are far from being overly sexual in their appearence and fluff, but that doesnt mean all femininity should be suppressed either. one of the few times their female form is displayed is when they become Repentia, shedding all worldly goods for a life of repentance. Their sex and femininity is the driving appeal of the SoB, lose it and you lose their whole gimick.

anywho, thats my thoughts.

Sisters were popular

Sorry, too easy

I like the OP sketch... i would like to see that sculpt as a new codex Celestian(Elite/Command Sq) with an improved armor & shield of faith inv save (2+/5++) and +1 toughness... kinda making them the equilivant SoB termie armor.

The boob plate is dangerous. If you fall over, the boobs will hit first, and then thearmour will press into your chst and crush it.

Boob plate creates a great big shot trap, too.

Maybe they'd be popular if they had a real codex, plastic models, and original vehicles that weren't ripped out of the Marine codex.

They're basically veteran Guardsman in power armor with Marine vehicles and some special rules right now.


Yes, I am still angry about the Acts of Faith change. I liked having my 2++ and other shenanigans.

 Amaya wrote:
Maybe they'd be popular if they had a real codex, plastic models, and original vehicles that weren't ripped out of the Marine codex.

They're basically veteran Guardsman in power armor with Marine vehicles and some special rules right now.


Yes, I am still angry about the Acts of Faith change. I liked having my 2++ and other shenanigans.

Why be angry about it? I can still manage to win hands down under the current rules against allcomers. The Rhino template vehicles make sense because of the IoM fluff to do with them. tbh, rules and fluff wise there is nothing wrong with them... its their models that are the problem, if problem is even the right word...

Because, as I predicted, they have been streamlined and are essentially the same as GK with their each unit has a special ability crap.

And? They are a specialised force which focuses on their faith over the unstable psychic powers of other forces.

There's only so far you can go with game mechanics before you start to repeat other armies gimicks... SoB have always been about the fluff over game mechanics.

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:
And? They are a specialised force which focuses on their faith over the unstable psychic powers of other forces.

There's only so far you can go with game mechanics before you start to repeat other armies gimicks... SoB have always been about the fluff over game mechanics.

That's a contradictory statement.

And there's the little fact that the previous Faith system was unique while the new one isn't.

regardless of what we each think, this is OT in a big way... I suggest we return to it.

 Lynata wrote:

Pouncey wrote:I liked that half-boob-plate, as one of you guys put it, that was posted earlier, with the flat plate over the top of the chest; it seemed like a nice compromise.

How is that a compromise? That's Space Marine armour.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/470752.page#4668252

That don't look like no Space Marine I ever saw.

In any case, I like their current style just fine.

Edit: I'd also add that so long as they remain recognizably female in one way or another, I don't care too much. Hell, if the plastics are different - whenever they come out - than the metals I'd probably like that more, since it'd make painting and assembling them more interesting - I like different but familiar things. It'd also give me a reason to buy more models, as at this point, I've pretty much run out of stuff I'd like to use but don't already have.

Enh, so long as they look like women.

Pouncey wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/470752.page#4668252
That don't look like no Space Marine I ever saw.

Oh, I thought you were referring to OP's pic.
With the linked example, I'm simply going to say that it will be notably less apparent on a 28mm-scale miniature. Also, the point kind of gets lost. If the armour doesn't yell "I'm a girl rawr!" then it may as well be completely androgynous. The former is, I think, an important aspect not only of the Sisters' whole appearance but also 40k's "gothic" style in general. Stuff has to be exaggerated. The grander, the better. Just look at their architecture!

thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:The boob plate is dangerous. If you fall over, the boobs will hit first, and then thearmour will press into your chst and crush it.

That would require the armour to deform, which might be a risk with stuff like a thin bronze sphere, but surely not with a 41st millennium sci-fi ceramite plate. The wearer would simply "hang" in the armour, the front plate surrounding the "cups" supporting the outer and inner sections of her ribcage.

Actually, even if the armour would deform, the only way it could harm the wearer would be if the "cups" somehow have a stronger integrity than the section of armour twixt them - in other words, all you'd have to do is to reinforce the middle section to negate the risk. Not that I think this risk would even apply to power armour.

Gearhead wrote:Boob plate creates a great big shot trap, too.

I call urban myth on this idea. The required angle for a shot to be deflected right into the midst of the armour would be quite small. Additionally, spin-stabilised armour-piercing projectiles such as bolt rounds react differently to sloped armour (they "eat" into it either way) than normal ones (which would probably simply fail to penetrate any section of the armour). Against las-weapons, the "cups" actually provide greater protection than a flat plate, as the incoming blast has a greater surface dispersion.

The only real risk would be allowing melee weapons to be guided towards the midst, but few close combat arms in 40k are actually stabbing rather than swinging. You could even argue that Space Marine shoulder pauldrons are more of a threat to their wearer, since a chainsword-swing at them will guide the weapon right towards the Marines' temple.

 Amaya wrote:
And there's the little fact that the previous Faith system was unique while the new one isn't.

It also wasn't entirely clear and often very confusing to opponents playing against it. The new system is easier to play and easier to face and understand. With the Witchhunters book I remember watching a friend play his sisters regularly and *every* battle *every* time he used an act of faith he had to explain it to the other side and make it clear how it worked. Some required a higher roll. Others required a lower roll. It was always confusing for his opponents because of this. Now the powers all work in a similar way.

Skriker

Personally, I think a medium between the old and the new would be best.

I actually like the idea of rolling for Faith points each turn. It means you have less of an "alpha strike" capability, but on the other hand you can afford to use FP outside of that one moment you were planning for, and which might never even really come. I suppose one might argue it's a bit less tactical (less pre-planning), but on the other hand you have more on-the-spot improvisation and adaption.
I also think the modifiers to AoF rolls are cool and fit to the fluff.

What I don't like is that AoF are so very limited now, basically just being a unique special ability you're not allowed to use every turn. Meh. Give us back a list of AoF that we can choose freely from, and all is well.

Oh, and FP rolls need to keep army size in mind. I believe someone's local group made a house role of 1d3 per 500 pts, which I think is a nice and easy fix to the issue.