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primed, dipped/wash, highlighted; and based


^only 2 colours; I guess it fails :/

 greenleafl wrote:
primed, dipped/wash, highlighted; and based


^only 2 colours; I guess it fails :/

Looks like a little bit more than 2 colors to me.

Yeah, I see at least 8-9 colours on the model, then 3-5 on the base.

Bear in mind, that each different block of a different shade (i.e. Dark Green and Light Green) counts as a different colour.

There are 50 shades of gray after all...

 d-usa wrote:
There are 50 shades of gray after all...

That's hawt!

No bare plastic/metal/resin, shaded and based. It is possible to paint a really good looking army with only a white undercoat and washes and still get a good effect.

I put a bit too much effort into my Tyranids and so painting them takes forever, although my airbrush has sped things up.

My table top standard White,black(blend with colors),ur base coat,skin color,/metal if its a machine, ur armor/ faction color,color for weapon. Then use common sence on how you shade ur stuff. ive made fire warriors desert color with only blazing orange black and white. Really table top standard is how many diffrent componets ur model has and using appropriate color, so ya 3 can b bare bones but honestly id say more like 4-7 diffrent colors depending on complexity of the model.

I consider this Chaos Space Marine to be table-top. All I did was a basecoat, washes, re-basecoat and highlights-nothing fancy, just the bare minimum needed to be acceptable. He has a good variety of color, and a whole unit of models painted like this would look very striking on the battlefield, which is a must.

_Tim?

Wow _Tim?, that's a great mini there, though I suspect you hold your standard of table-top to a higher level than a lot of other people I know

To me Table Top standard is 3 colors and a wash with some details picked out.

Sister Superior to a table top standard:



Table Top Standard really isn't much of a standard when you think about it. Everyone implements it differently, though the GW tourney three color rule seems to be pretty common in general.

I thought it went by a sort of distance factor as in if it looked good on the table, yet poor up close it was table top quality hence the name. Guess different people with different definitions and all that.

IMO table top standard is not a set standard. It is not something you can point to and say "that is, that isn't".

It is, to me, the minimum level you can paint your own minis and say "I'm happy to put that on the table". Some people this will involve lots of shading and highlighting, some just basic colours. And that is not excusing people who don't paint at all.

Probably a better way of explaining is through basing. For me table top basing is a coat of paint and a layer of flock. The minimum needed to be ok. Better would be putting some detail in, but not needed at all.

Not wanting to get in to an argument (I'm not trying to discuss this point, there are other places for that). Table top quality should be the minimum level of painting before you want to put an army on the table. The painting hobby is taking it way beyond that.

 n0t_u wrote:
I thought it went by a sort of distance factor as in if it looked good on the table, yet poor up close it was table top quality hence the name. Guess different people with different definitions and all that.

I think that was the origin of the term, but it changed to be more in line with GW tourney standard in a very general sense of the term. But again, as said, very very open to interpretation.

 marv335 wrote:
For Me, It's
1. Undercoated
2. Based.
3. 3 Colour minimum.

This has been my understanding for the nearly 2 decades that I've been playing.

However there has been quite a bit of creep in what the Tabletop means in some circles. Tabletop never used to require a wash and some highlighting, but some folks coming into the hobby seem to have interpreted it as such.

In a more general sense, each group will determine what their own standard is, but the standard base level for tabletop is what marv posted above. Personally, I shoot for a "nice tabletop" which for me is undercoated, 5-8 colors, a dip and sometimes some drybrushing and then of course basing.

I'm with the more old fashioned meaning, it is just whether the mini look ok at arms length distance, basically the sort of distance you would normaly see them at whilst playing a game on the table top.

That may or may not involve any shade/highlight depending on the mini.

Basic colours where they should be, washes and basing are pretty big bonuses (hell my local GW has never had 2 full painted armies going at once playing. got to the stage where the one time we did, they tuck pictures of them and went on a spree on FB "ACTUAL PAINTED ARMIES IN STORE 0.o" etc)

Three distinct base coat colors, and washed can give a very decently presented army.

I think that The Army Painter stuff is a good example of what I would consider some solid table top standard that lets you paint an army that looks good from 3 feet away in a reasonable time.

http://www.thearmypainter.com/gallery_presentation.php?GalleryId=109&Gallery=Space%20Orc%20Trooper

http://www.thearmypainter.com/gallery_presentation.php?GalleryId=110&Gallery=CP%20Barbarian%20Flesh:%20Dwarf%20Berserker&page=1

I generally consider primed, 3 color blocked, washed, and based, table top,

For myself, primed, 3 color blocked, washed, 2 highlights per color, battle damge, glaze, and based (Though I tend to just paint the bases black and come back to them later).
Like this.

For me tabletop standard should be at least 3 colours, highlights and some details picked out. I myself like to have my models painted as good as I can do, even if it takes ages for finishing just one squad.

Example for my personal sandard:

To me...

Tabletop standard is if it looks good from 3ft away with all the proper color, highlights, basing.

Your good.


Globbing 3 colors on is not tabletop standard. They have to look good.

This is what I expect from myself, but for others I think 3 colours with no shading/highlighting and the base at least painted (even without texturing) is acceptable. Not that I'd turn down a game because a guy hadn't got around to painting all his models yet. If he never paints them, then I might do after repeatedly playing him for 6 months or something.

 djphranq wrote:
To me the '3 color standard' and 'table-top standard' are different.

3 color standard = 3 colors and based; utilitarian type of thing just to be eligible for tournaments

Table-top standard = a little more detail put into the paint job whether via more colors or added techniques, and looks decent about 3' away, and is based.

I would consider just being basecoated as table-top standard so long as there are maybe a few more details painted or more than 3 colors and it was based.

I agree with this. Table top standard has nothing to do with what's allowed.

It's a subjective measure of how good a mini looks. Most of the time, that means base coating, shading/highlighting, and basing. Few models look bad with just 2-3 layers, and few models look good with only one.

If I were to summarize in a set of rules:
1) the model must be completely painted, with all but the tiniest details (buttons, straps, eyes) picked out.
2) Most, if not all, colors should have depth to them, be it shading, highlighting, or both.
3) The model must be based.

And yes, I think tabletop standard has advanced, because the tools available have. With colored primers, good washes, and broad paint ranges it's only slightly more complicated to add depth than to only paint flat colors.

 Polonius wrote:

 djphranq wrote:
To me the '3 color standard' and 'table-top standard' are different.

3 color standard = 3 colors and based; utilitarian type of thing just to be eligible for tournaments

Table-top standard = a little more detail put into the paint job whether via more colors or added techniques, and looks decent about 3' away, and is based.

I would consider just being basecoated as table-top standard so long as there are maybe a few more details painted or more than 3 colors and it was based.

I agree with this. Table top standard has nothing to do with what's allowed.

It's a subjective measure of how good a mini looks. Most of the time, that means base coating, shading/highlighting, and basing. Few models look bad with just 2-3 layers, and few models look good with only one.

If I were to summarize in a set of rules:
1) the model must be completely painted, with all but the tiniest details (buttons, straps, eyes) picked out.
2) Most, if not all, colors should have depth to them, be it shading, highlighting, or both.
3) The model must be based.

And yes, I think tabletop standard has advanced, because the tools available have. With colored primers, good washes, and broad paint ranges it's only slightly more complicated to add depth than to only paint flat colors.

Agreed. I think army painter shows a fine example of what you are talking about in their examples.

I think another way to state it is that "table top" standard is any paint job that is, at minimum, attempting to look good, and not simply "painted." Three color minimum is fine for minis as tokens or chits, but TTS is an attempt to make them look appealing.

I think that requires, but is also bound by, the techniques that most people can learn. Drybrushing, shading, extreme highlights, lining, etc. A key is that quality is less important. A crappy dry brush still improves a models depth.

To move past that, you need to use advanced techniques, and use them well. Freehand, layering, blending, NMM, OSL, whatever.

A three color painter is simply applying paint.

A table top standard painter is a craftsman/woman.

A display quality painter is an artist.

Craftsman? Way to put people off there Polonius!

I think you overstate it a bit, your suggested bandings could be construed as intimidating and there are plenty of people that don't need too much of an excuse to not paint.

I think the rule of 3' is always important when considering this matter. From there the minimum number of basic coats and a dry brush will look good, particularly on a nice table.

It is important to add that basing helps massively. All of my IG are painted to higher standard than that above but they didnt look good until I applied two layers of GW basing sand to the base, no paint just sand. Quick and simple. Losing the last are plastic really made the difference, then a few tufts and it looks tip top (that stuff is fethin magic IMO).

So the difference from 3' between a basic and good paint job is minimal (i have terrible eye sight admittedly) but doing even a little bit on the base make the world of diferance.

 notprop wrote:
Craftsman? Way to put people off there Polonius!

I think you overstate it a bit, your suggested bandings could be construed as intimidating and there are plenty of people that don't need too much of an excuse to not paint.

I have no problem with people painting to a basic level simply to game. I'm an all aroudn hobbyist, and I think that, to me, Table top standard implies that the person treats the painting as worthy of time in and of itself. I'm not critical of quality, but there is virtually no way, absent bizarre intent, that a person' army would look worse after a wash and a simple basing than before.

As for excuses to paint, not a factor. People that don't paint do so for many reasons. The most annoying are those that claim "I'm a perfectionist and if I can't do it amazingly I won't do it it all," which is just code for "I want to be good at something without time or effort."

I think the rule of 3' is always important when considering this matter. From there the minimum number of basic coats and a dry brush will look good, particularly on a nice table.

It is important to add that basing helps massively. All of my IG are painted to higher standard than that above but they didnt look good until I applied two layers of GW basing sand to the base, no paint just sand. Quick and simple. Losing the last are plastic really made the difference, then a few tufts and it looks tip top (that stuff is fethin magic IMO).

So the difference from 3' between a basic and good paint job is minimal (i have terrible eye sight admittedly) but doing even a little bit on the base make the world of diferance.

What you've described (three colors, highlight/quickshade, and basing) is the exact same standard I endorse for tabletop standard. I've got no problem with that, because as you point out, it'll look good from 3' out.

And that's what table top stanard is: it looks good on a table top. Not great, and not up close. But from three feet away. And that's a laughably easy standard to reach, especially once you've assemble, primed, and based with three colors.

in a fun match. no paint is fine with me

BUt my "Standard" is the "3 color" thing.

 Engine of War wrote:
in a fun match. no paint is fine with me

BUt my "Standard" is the "3 color" thing.

This ^. Most people who see my army judging from this thread would have fits, my models have nothing on the base, and most details are not picked out on any models.

I think it has already been said, its all about the look of the model when its on the board.

I think the model should look good and effort should be made to paint it well. Again as mentioned, painting is part of the hobby too. Everyone has different standards but painting to a basic standard, at least trying to pick out a bit of detail and depth.

After all, its about the fantasy of the hobby. There is nothing worste than a well painted army on a plain table as a board or vice versa, an unpainted army on a detailed gaming board.

Everyone is different but someone who has just basecoated (if that) an army will he be taking as much care when moving models as the guy who has painted his entire army? Its about what you want from the hobby.

Overall. Table top standard has to be:

Modell all painted.
Based.
Effort made to paint SOME of the detail.