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 slice'n'dice wrote:
Don't forget pg 23 states that after all initiative steps are lost, work out assault results as per pg 26. If your thenopponent doesn't break, you then make an end of combat pile in. This may have allowed you to pile in with your swarmlord, and therefore your TG pile in and you are locked in combat

Oh for sure, at the very least we would have ended combat in CC and I wouldn't have been able to get shot to death standing in the open next turn. We just didn't make it to the "end of combat pile in" because we were to busy fighting over if we had to do the Tyrant Guard pile in even tho the Swarmy was no longer in B2B with anything.

I re-read the rules many times and still don't see something that says they would get to make the pile in move once the swarmlord had no more B2B. Which to me doesn't seem right.

Regardless we would have piled in at the end of combat and it would be very disadvantages to him, because next combat swarmlord would go again, without his units have taken a swing yet.

We've agreed now that if an I6 kills everything in B2B the I5 will get a 3" to try and make B2B, if the I5 can't make B2B combat ends and we then do another end of combat pile in.

The key terms are "both players'" and "would be". The rule is not "if models don't make it into base contact in this initiative step", it's if piling in models from both sides would not bring them into contact. The 6" is not a suggestion, it's a fact.

The other interpretation proposed in the rule contradicts the rule in three places - "both players'", "would", and "6"". That's an incredibly weak interpretation, to insert an assumption about context into a rule that makes the rule itself literally incorrect. That's not how you use context.

Stormbreed wrote:

I re-read the rules many times and still don't see something that says they would get to make the pile in move once the swarmlord had no more B2B. Which to me doesn't seem right.

What more are you looking for?

The rules say you Pile-in on your Init step. It does not say that those models must be engaged in combat.

We've agreed now that if an I6 kills everything in B2B the I5 will get a 3" to try and make B2B, if the I5 can't make B2B combat ends and we then do another end of combat pile in.

I like it when people agree to do what the rulebook says...



As for the statement about 6" and Pile in.... Parenthetical statements, by their very nature, are meant as clarifications, and *not* to add new meaning or content. Anything in parentheses can be removed and not change the meaning of the paragraph.
Thus we should be able to completely ignore the (thats more than 6" - very unlikely!) bit and not change the rules.

And yes *both* players get their pile in move, Player A gets to move all I4 models, and Player B gets to move all I4 models.... if Player B doesn't have any models at I4... then his move is 0".

coredump wrote:

Stormbreed wrote:

I re-read the rules many times and still don't see something that says they would get to make the pile in move once the swarmlord had no more B2B. Which to me doesn't seem right.

What more are you looking for?

The rules say you Pile-in on your Init step. It does not say that those models must be engaged in combat.

We've agreed now that if an I6 kills everything in B2B the I5 will get a 3" to try and make B2B, if the I5 can't make B2B combat ends and we then do another end of combat pile in.

I like it when people agree to do what the rulebook says...

A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if: PG 23

. During its Initiative step, it is in base contact with one or
more enemv models.
. During its Initiative step it is within 2" of a friendly
model in base contact with one or more enemy models in
the same combat.

PG 22 : Initiative Steps

work your way through the initiative
values of the models engaged in the combat, starting with
the highest and ending with the lowest.


Based on that once Swarmlord got rid of all his B2B, the Tyrant Guard would not have been able pile in.

Stormbreed wrote:


Based on that once Swarmlord got rid of all his B2B, the Tyrant Guard would not have been able pile in.

Not strictly true, the Tyrant guard would still pile in, they don't get to strike if they can't make it into b2b.
At the start of your inititive step you pile in, so during being after the start of the step means that once you have piled in you see if you are engaged in combat.

Stormbreed wrote:

coredump wrote:

Stormbreed wrote:

I re-read the rules many times and still don't see something that says they would get to make the pile in move once the swarmlord had no more B2B. Which to me doesn't seem right.

What more are you looking for?

The rules say you Pile-in on your Init step. It does not say that those models must be engaged in combat.

We've agreed now that if an I6 kills everything in B2B the I5 will get a 3" to try and make B2B, if the I5 can't make B2B combat ends and we then do another end of combat pile in.

I like it when people agree to do what the rulebook says...

A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if: PG 23

. During its Initiative step, it is in base contact with one or
more enemv models.
. During its Initiative step it is within 2" of a friendly
model in base contact with one or more enemy models in
the same combat.

PG 22 : Initiative Steps

work your way through the initiative
values of the models engaged in the combat, starting with
the highest and ending with the lowest.


Based on that once Swarmlord got rid of all his B2B, the Tyrant Guard would not have been able pile in.

Your forgetting the fact that those rules you quoted come after the Pile In move.

Are you sure cause the PG22 is the first time it's listed and says units engaged in combat make Pile ins during their Int Step.

So the next step would be to see who's engaged in combat during their Int Step.

Based on the rules for who's "engaged" in combat I just don't understand how they get to make an INT stepp. Even if I'll be playing as everyone else has been saying, I just don't know if he was "Wrong".

Skip to the summary on pg 429. That might help clarify things a bit.