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And here I was, as happy as a clam because I'd built a turning turret. Turning, meh!

Sponsons project looks ace in itself, not to mention the rest of the tank

As for the build, I think, considering the scale under discussion, maybe an outer cilinder, turnable for horizontal movement, with an inner sphere inserted inside for the vertical swivel?

(The double cilinder concept, though more realistic, would be far more complex, and probably larger, the inside tube should be smaller in diam than the outer one to fit, and rounded at both ends to fit on the inner wall to allow for the vertical motion).

Or a single ball joint, for free movement on both axis on one step.

Just my two cents anyway, your magnificent build, your call.

Waiting to see what you come up with.

Thanks LT.

It's proving a challenge at the moment (I'm up to plan C so far).

The main problem I'm seeing (other than cutting curved holes in a curved surface; for which I may move on to finding a suitable drill bit), is that I'm trying to fit a large, multi-barrelled weapon into a situation designed for relatively small arms...

This means a hole in a cylinder in a hole in another cylinder is approaching the size of the cylinder.

Got a few more things to try and then I may move on to mounting methods that better fit the size of the gun.

Tha flatness, plus that notch under is the danger. best to be sloped all the way to the deck

I'm shedding a tear of joy at seeing the absolutely wonderful geekery of your scale elevation drawings of your weapon systems

I love the attention to detail you've lavished on the interior, and the concept itself is great, very original,
looking forward to seeing more .

 Dr H wrote:
Is it the flatness of that piece that causes the problem, or the gap under that?

The gap is no higher than the raised hatch area in front of it.

If I was to carve away the upper part of that piece of sprue to make it angled, but left the gap under it, would that solve the issue?
Or does it really need to reach all the way down to the hull?

While we're on the subject, I've always wondered about the angled underside of turrets, they always look like they'll focus any shells into the ring. Surely that's not good for keeping a turret that can rotate...

For all shots that dont come straight at it is more likely to deflect. Also the angled shot will force down into the hull, away from the internal motors of the turret.

Angled slopes to armor does actually make it deflect at 90degrees away from the sloped surface, so yeah, like Comrade said, it would hit the deck armor after being bounced off the turret slope, still risky, but hey, no one likes their turret jammed and have to swivel the tank to aim the main guns!

I've kept thinking about the sponson mount and the double axis problem, mind if I toss my hat into the ring?


As for drilling on curved surfaces, a basic jig might be of help:



Hope I made sense.

shasolenzabi wrote:Tha flatness, plus that notch under is the danger. best to be sloped all the way to the deck

Aye aye, Cap'n. To be honest, I was being a little lazy just sticking a bit of sprue on. Thanks.

cormadepanda wrote:For all shots that dont come straight at it is more likely to deflect. Also the angled shot will force down into the hull, away from the internal motors of the turret.

shasolenzabi wrote:Angled slopes to armor does actually make it deflect at 90degrees away from the sloped surface, so yeah, like Comrade said, it would hit the deck armor after being bounced off the turret slope, still risky, but hey, no one likes their turret jammed and have to swivel the tank to aim the main guns!

Cool. Understood. Ta.

dsteingass wrote:I'm shedding a tear of joy at seeing the absolutely wonderful geekery of your scale elevation drawings of your weapon systems

Glad to have brought you a little bit of happiness. I do do sketches for a lot of my modelling ideas, but they are usually very rough and not made for sharing. This one, however, I needed to do to actual scale (it's actually drawn double size) to get a feeling of the sizes I could get away with.

hk1x1 wrote:I love the attention to detail you've lavished on the interior, and the concept itself is great, very original,
looking forward to seeing more .

Thanks hk.

Littletower wrote:I've kept thinking about the sponson mount and the double axis problem, mind if I toss my hat into the ring?

Not at all, LT. All ideas are welcome and holy cow, top marks for effort. Not just suggesting an idea, but actually doing it. Much appreciated.

Not had a chance to do much myself yet, but I'll be back.
Thanks again dudes.

Heh! I'm a tank freak what can I say?

 shasolenzabi wrote:
Heh! I'm a tank freak what can I say?

And that is why I listen to you.
My modelling history involves many models, most of them aircraft and zero tanks. This is my first "proper" tank.

Here's a quick shot of the new front:

The corners will be filled in when I come to the putty-ing.

As far as the sponson is concerned;
I know I'm just making things all the more difficult, but I am going to be constructing the inside of the sponson to a certain degree. Why would I do such a thing? because I removed the doors so I could see into the sponsons...
This involves the rear of the gun (basically an ammo drum) and some flooring and wires. I won't get too carried away as it's not going to be very visible.
It has added a whole level of complexity to the build, and I'm on to plan F now (I think.. I've lost track). but it is coming together.

How it will look when it has come together is yet to be seen. A couple of additions, let the glue dry and I'll share it with you here...
'til then...

Kudos for making it hard on yourself, really complex, but go for it, I know you can do it.

There is nothing a little sprue, a sharp exacto knife an a lot of cussing can't fix . I like the land raider mark IIB turrets, only problem is they not have the 180 degree firing arc.

There ya go, and looking forwards to seeing the end results!

Camkierhi wrote:Kudos for making it hard on yourself, really complex, but go for it, I know you can do it.

Thanks for the faith.

Theophony wrote:There is nothing a little sprue, a sharp exacto knife an a lot of cussing can't fix . I like the land raider mark IIB turrets, only problem is they not have the 180 degree firing arc.

Yep.
and I'm aware that these won't be firing backwards like the normal Predator sponsons. I had planned to fit rear-facing machine guns to each sponson to account for this, but there really isn't going to be room. I may add a co-axial MG to the turret for anti-infantry to the rear (why not make the turret even more complex to build anyway...)

shasolenzabi wrote:There ya go, and looking forwards to seeing the end results!

Here you go then...

Before I show you what I've ended up with, I'll run you through the trials and tribulations that led to it:
Now you all saw the picture I was trying to replicate, and I received many good suggestions for producing the outward appearance of something similar. But me being me had already decided that the sponson would be visible from the inside when I removed the doors early in the build.
This meant that I didn't think I should do a sealed back to the gun...

This, in turn, meant that the cylinders that I wanted to fit the gun into had to have holes in the front AND back, and these had to line up perfectly for the gun the fit all the way through. This is difficult to achieve.

Also, in my current recycling (not spending when I can use available, free, materials) phase, I chose to use tubes that are the housing for soap pump dispensers as I have plenty and they are roughly the right size.
This however, led to two issues:
1) the smallest, when cut to a length that was wide enough for a hole for the gun to fit through, was too wide to fit into the largest tube to create the two-axis gun mount. However, I have a lipstick cover that is wide enough.
2) The material that the small tube (soap pump) is made from is not good for drilling. So that didn't turn out well. I did manage to salvage enough of it to be useful (see below).

The outer cylinder, while it would have been nice to have an oval hole, and maybe I could have made one (the lipstick cover being made of a better material), I decided to have straight sides and hide the top and bottom with the sponson housing, so I didn't need to worry about getting more curves right.
I did, however, have to cut it straight and (thankfully) managed that without issue.

But how to mount the vertical axis inside this...
I noticed that in the reference picture, the inside of the large cylinder there are straight walls that the internal cylinder sits up against. So I added flat plates of plasticard inside the remaining semi-circles of the outer cylinder.

Much, dry-fitting and carving and sanding and I managed to get the gun sitting between the two sides. Then I drilled the holes for the axis bar (paperclip) through each flat wall and through the gun (which I didn't get straight on the first attempt ).
I then used the remnants of the small cylinder to glue on the top and bottom of the gun so that it "looks" like the gun passes through the cylinder.

So, in short, if you are considering making a mount like this:
use easily workable plastic,
use a thin weapon,
Just stick the front of the weapon on the cylinder (or do like Shas or LT said),
Or, just use the sponsons that you can buy and therefore don't have to worry about cutting holes in curved surfaces and making things fit in things that have to fit in something else...


This is not glued together completely yet, as I will paint the (rather messy) inside of the small "cylinder" black, while it is accessible. It will look slightly neater on the outside once the outer surfaces are glued up to the edges of the card circles. The top and bottom will be hidden inside the sponson armour and there won't be such a large gap around the gun.

It's probably not worth all this effort just to fit an ammo' box to the back, but done now.
What do we think?

Cylinder is set, BIG sponsons, ammo on the back makes me wonder how this will affect the swiveling?

 shasolenzabi wrote:
Cylinder is set, BIG sponsons,

It's as small as I could make it for this style. It can be made shorter though (another reason it's not all glued together).

ammo on the back makes me wonder how this will affect the swiveling?

I will mount it next to the door so that it swivels into the doorway (this will also minimise how far the whole sponson sticks out). It's only going to go 90deg.

Ah good, and I have posted fresh images myself.

 shasolenzabi wrote:
Ah good, and I have posted fresh images myself.

The joys of automatically appending...

The added benefit of this sponson ending up further back on the tank is that there should be more room for tank-art in front of it on that nice flat area I created.

I'm also considering the other sponson not being a mirror image of this one and making the tank slightly asymmetric (it will be anyway with the differing weapons). Will see when I get there...

It's a bobbin of doom

I really liked your new piece of fluff... this stirred one question in me tho... will we ...after this recent on going mega project of a tank in the making...see the true doc? will you make one future day the chaotic presence in metal and plastic for good?... would love to see how you picture the mad doc himself...

as for the tank as it is... amazing... all that wiring will make you probably insane...but I guess this will only provide us with more of such eye candy stuff^^
at first I was overwhelmed by the ork, but he comes at an unfair second place when it comes to pure deviously reposed models when we look no further than the bug... man... you really outdone yourself... his workplace and the pose of that nid is so stunningly matched at both ends...wonderful work!

wow...leaves me breathless...

Lol Ruglud.

 Viktor von Domm wrote:
I really liked your new piece of fluff... this stirred one question in me tho... will we ...after this recent on going mega project of a tank in the making...see the true doc? will you make one future day the chaotic presence in metal and plastic for good?... would love to see how you picture the mad doc himself...

Thanks. I'm glad people enjoy my (often silly) fluff.
I do intend to make The Scientist at some point.
He has been described in some of my fluff, and I see him as a kind of from the Doc Brown mould of mad scientist, Y'know...

...That one. Wild, unprofessional look, always carrying an array of useful things, total conviction in his ideas and yet a genius that does actually know what he's talking about... even if others don't understand him...

However, I really want him to be a perfect model and, unless I find the perfect base model, I'm going to have to sculpt him and I'm not as good as sculpting as I want to be to attempt that yet.

So, at the moment, he will remain an enigma...

as for the tank as it is... amazing... all that wiring will make you probably insane...but I guess this will only provide us with more of such eye candy stuff^^

Thanks. Yeah, I keep doing this to myself with my models. Coming from a background of paint-before-assembly, you'd have thought I would be more sensible with my own. But with the modifications I find myself doing, I can't paint things before I know where they go (or even what they will be) and can see the whole model and judge what to make stand out and what to blend in.

It should be fine. I have given thought, as I've added things, to how I will get in to paint them. So, unless I've done something silly with the layout, all will be ok to paint.

at first I was overwhelmed by the ork, but he comes at an unfair second place when it comes to pure deviously reposed models when we look no further than the bug... man... you really outdone yourself... his workplace and the pose of that nid is so stunningly matched at both ends...wonderful work!

wow...leaves me breathless...

Thanks. I'm glad he works so well. The modifications were quite simple really (lots of minor changes to the tail, one small arm, one main arm, the waist and the neck and one major change to one leg). The good thing with 'nids is that they have very distinct joins at all their joints that go all the way round, making it easy to cut and re-pose.

Actually, I think of all the races, the Tyranids get the least "characterful" poses, compared to how much potential there is. The options you're presented with are aggressive or aggressive. Whereas the other races get things like, heroic, commanding, aggressive, thoughtful, humorous, etc...
But getting that thoughtful, intelligent, look to a 'nid is not that hard, even without major chopping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah. I also added some black to the gun and here's some pictures of where it will roughly sit next to the tank. Imagine it boxed in.

It's quite big... but... should be ok... I think...

Hey doc how about making some pivoting arms that come out of the side of the tank to hold the turret. That way they could extend a little more which would allow it to get the full 180? I know your not to worried about it, but it would be more contraptions on the frame that would disguise it as less than STC.

 Theophony wrote:
Hey doc how about making some pivoting arms that come out of the side of the tank to hold the turret. That way they could extend a little more which would allow it to get the full 180? I know your not to worried about it, but it would be more contraptions on the frame that would disguise it as less than STC.

It's a thought (I'll add it to the list...). I'll see how this turns out and if it ends up ugly and ungainly then I'll try alternatives...

Robotic arms like a street sweeper is what I was getting at, something on top and bottom of it to boom out.

A street sweeper! LOL!

But yeah, maybe as part of the fluff, the arm could be to bring back a specimen that caught the Professor's curiosity.

Thank you Theo. I know what you mean.

Actually, Shas, I need to add something like that to my list of things to do, and I have two immediate ideas for it...

Plan F, above has hit a problem. You can actually see it in the top image of the picture I posted above.
While the ammo' box can rotate through the door, miss the frame and allow the gun to reach 90deg... With the gun straight ahead, it stretches so far back that building a box to surround it, with angled sides, means it's going to cover the exhaust to the rear.

So, plan G:
Dismantle the gun mount.
Remove the ammo' box and rear of the gun.
Make a whole new gun mount and build the inside of the sponson separately.
I have taken this opportunity to shorten the height of the main cylinder too.

Most of my own sponsons you never see the back of the gun. I just have the guns coming off the cylinder that allows the swivel to happen. the idea is you will not see the ammo feed anyway, just assume a belt feed or other method. I would put a wall inside the tank and not worry about showing inside the sponson from the guts of the tank. Make it a separate attached system self contained and ammo supplied separately at base.

and not worry about showing inside the sponson from the guts of the tank

So this is how the sponson is shaping up now.

Without the back of the gun I can position is further forward, closer to the tank hull and it is a more solid (dyslexia fail ) structure.

You can also see the possible footprint shape for the whole sponson.
Thoughts?

I like it, only suggestion I can come up with is make a hatch cover on the main cylinder near the back so Klawsy can clear jams! It adds detail that isn't there. If you know what I mean.