Blood Lance and flyers

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**Happyjew**

We have. All relevant quotes (specifically Hard to Hit and Snap Shots) has been quoted in this thread.

**Lt.Soundwave**

Let me rephrase, specifically I am interested in the POE section. I dont recall reading it earlier in the thread though it was just referenced if someone wouldnt mind putting it up that would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

**Happyjew**

It was brought up towards the end. Snap Shot specifically calls out PoE by name as something that cannot fire Snap Shots.

**Lt.Soundwave**

"It's important to note that any shooting attack that does not use a Ballistic Skill - such as the Necron Monolith's portal of exile - cannot be 'fired' as a Snap Shot."

This is the line,

.

The only problem I see with this is that there is nothing forcing the lance to be fired AS a snapshot.

Didnt void point this out already?

**Happyjew**

Except when resolving Shots at a Zooming Flyer/Swooping FMC.

**Lt.Soundwave**

resolving Shots at a Zooming Flyer/Swooping FMC.

As has been pointed out however, you are not resolving a shot AT a flyer etc.

You've already hit and are instead resolving the effects of the hit. Two entirely separate processes.

The Lance ability appears to be worded in such a way as to slip through the cracks as it were.

The POE example states a non BS using attack cannot be fired as a snap shot however the Lance argument does not make the case that it is fired as a snap shot at all, at any point.

**Xzerios**

The point Sound is trying to make is even though it states PoE cant be fired as a Snap Shot, its resolution is much different from The Blood Lance. Portal of Exile makes models hit by it take a Strength Test. The Blood Lance causes a Strength 8, AP 1 hit.

Both resolve, but one is a Special rule that forces a Characteristic test, the other is a normal Psychic Shooting attack.

**Lt.Soundwave**

That is not in fact what im pointing out im afraid.

**Kevin949**

It's funny how this thread stopped after like 8 posts.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/462885.page

**Fragile**

Often times threads will die for a variety of reasons. I rarely look beyond the first page so in a day of heavy posting things might drop off the list that I wouldnt see.

**Lt.Soundwave**

^ That pretty much sums it up.

**Kevin949**

Oh I know that, but it was just interesting that there was pretty much no debate on it from anyone at all, now all of sudden that everyone has used or played against flyers and know how good they "can" be, it's a huge issue. I just find it funny is all. There were numerous other threads on similar subjects that all pretty much summed up the same.

**Fragile**

Another point to consider is that 6th is new. There are lots of interactions with powers / abilities / units that have not even been tried and alot of rule problems still to be discovered.

**Kevin949**

That is absolutely a possibility.

It's still interesting to see people try to find any loophole to be able to take out flyers easier when, to some, the intentions of the rules for flyers is pretty clear. Whether the writing of the rules is clear, however, is another story.

**TheLionOfTheForest**

How does this ruling effect our judgement here ?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/09/40k-contoversy-of-njal-and-flyers.html

There's a tempest in a teapot brewing over the weekend. The NOVA Open saw a controversial ruling that benefiting one of the eventual top placing players. What's your take?

The general question is:

How do you resolve Njal Stormcaller's Lord of Tempests ability with Flyers in 6th Edition.

This came up with a player planning on unleashing the potent power of the Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning effects from Njal on nearby flyers. You have two basic choices:

1) Let Wreckage Rain From the Heavens! Read the powers in the codex as RAW. The vehicles are struck as defined in the power. Flyers are automatically struck - no rolling to hit using Snap Fire rules, and no Evades allowed.

2) They're Moving Too Fast! Use the flyer rules from the 6th rulebook p.81 - any Flyers still reuire snap fire rolls to be struck and get Evade rolls if desired.

The judges ruled for option 1, and the player moved forward, finishing with a high ranking.

You may all restart bashing each other's brains in for thread supremacy!

**Kevin949**

Personally, I don't care what some random judge decided. They can be and have been wrong before as well (they are just people, after all).

*edit*
Actually, isn't the Lord of Tempests ability not a shooting attack?

**Fragile**

Kevin949 wrote:
Personally, I don't care what some random judge decided. They can be and have been wrong before as well (they are just people, after all).

*edit*
Actually, isn't the Lord of Tempests ability not a shooting attack?

This whole thread is based on why it "shouldn't" work, and not why it "doesn't" work. The Codex rule will apply an "autohit" until there is some kind of FAQ agreeing with the HTH/Snapshot concept. There is no real gray area in applying those wordings.

**Kevin949**

Fragile wrote:
Kevin949 wrote:
Personally, I don't care what some random judge decided. They can be and have been wrong before as well (they are just people, after all).

*edit*
Actually, isn't the Lord of Tempests ability not a shooting attack?

This whole thread is based on why it "shouldn't" work, and not why it "doesn't" work. The Codex rule will apply an "autohit" until there is some kind of FAQ agreeing with the HTH/Snapshot concept. There is no real gray area in applying those wordings.

I have zero idea what your response is trying to get at when you didn't either A. Answer my simple question about something I don't know for sure, or B. Address anything that was actually in my post.

Maybe had you answered me you would have seen where I was going with my question. Foresight, and all.

**Kelendros**

I think its funny how we all believe that flyers are intentionally hard to take out...once flak missiles become an option this won't be a debate any longer...If your scarred of flyers take a fortification...there are several that have good options to take down flyers.... They are purposely being left out as an option so that people by flyers...once they become an option many will not take flyers anymore because they are week...but we will see...

**Tyr Grimtooth**

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
How does this ruling effect our judgement here ?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/09/40k-contoversy-of-njal-and-flyers.html

There's a tempest in a teapot brewing over the weekend. The NOVA Open saw a controversial ruling that benefiting one of the eventual top placing players. What's your take?

The general question is:

How do you resolve Njal Stormcaller's Lord of Tempests ability with Flyers in 6th Edition.

This came up with a player planning on unleashing the potent power of the Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning effects from Njal on nearby flyers. You have two basic choices:

1) Let Wreckage Rain From the Heavens! Read the powers in the codex as RAW. The vehicles are struck as defined in the power. Flyers are automatically struck - no rolling to hit using Snap Fire rules, and no Evades allowed.

2) They're Moving Too Fast! Use the flyer rules from the 6th rulebook p.81 - any Flyers still reuire snap fire rolls to be struck and get Evade rolls if desired.

The judges ruled for option 1, and the player moved forward, finishing with a high ranking.

You may all restart bashing each other's brains in for thread supremacy!

Njal's powers are not psychic shooting attacks, hence do not reflect anything on Blood Lance which is a PSA.

**Kevin949**

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
How does this ruling effect our judgement here ?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/09/40k-contoversy-of-njal-and-flyers.html

There's a tempest in a teapot brewing over the weekend. The NOVA Open saw a controversial ruling that benefiting one of the eventual top placing players. What's your take?

The general question is:

How do you resolve Njal Stormcaller's Lord of Tempests ability with Flyers in 6th Edition.

This came up with a player planning on unleashing the potent power of the Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning effects from Njal on nearby flyers. You have two basic choices:

1) Let Wreckage Rain From the Heavens! Read the powers in the codex as RAW. The vehicles are struck as defined in the power. Flyers are automatically struck - no rolling to hit using Snap Fire rules, and no Evades allowed.

2) They're Moving Too Fast! Use the flyer rules from the 6th rulebook p.81 - any Flyers still reuire snap fire rolls to be struck and get Evade rolls if desired.

The judges ruled for option 1, and the player moved forward, finishing with a high ranking.

You may all restart bashing each other's brains in for thread supremacy!

Njal's powers are not psychic shooting attacks, hence do not reflect anything on Blood Lance which is a PSA.

And that's what I wanted to know...It's the same as Imotekh's ability. And yes, has no relevance to the thread at hand.

**Happyjew**

Kelendros wrote:
I think its funny how we all believe that flyers are intentionally hard to take out...once flak missiles become an option this won't be a debate any longer...If your scarred of flyers take a fortification...there are several that have good options to take down flyers.... They are purposely being left out as an option so that people by flyers...once they become an option many will not take flyers anymore because they are week...but we will see...

And this is why my Eldar army contains an ADL with quad-gun manned by a fire dragon exarch with tank Hunters and crack shot.