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Hi, got a question and dont have rulebook to hand to investigate:

If I have a drop pod list where all units are in drop pods, I drop half the pods rounding up on turn 1.

If the opponent gets first turn, I have nothing on the table, do I auto lose the game?

No, you lose if at the end of the game turn (not player turn) there's nothing of your army on the table.

You lose the game for having no models at the end of your turn. Otherwise Daemons wouldn't be a lot of fun in 6th.

Cool thanks guys... Thats what I thought, but had a brainfart.

Yeah, the rules wouldn't be that harsh right? ( who am I kidding, they killed traditional webway portal lists )

With Necrons it's entirely possible to specifically build a list you automatically lose with, by taking evrything apart from the Lord / Overlord as a flyer, or in a flying dedicated transport, meaning you only have 1 deployable unit in your army, that you put in reserve.

Cue end of your turn 1 and rack up your loss, no need to take the army out of its box.

 Ovion wrote:
Yeah, the rules wouldn't be that harsh right? ( who am I kidding, they killed traditional webway portal lists )

With Necrons it's entirely possible to specifically build a list you automatically lose with, by taking evrything apart from the Lord / Overlord as a flyer, or in a flying dedicated transport, meaning you only have 1 deployable unit in your army, that you put in reserve.

Cue end of your turn 1 and rack up your loss, no need to take the army out of its box.

Nids can do this to using a Flyrant, and everthing else in Mycetic Spores. Untis that buy a Spore must start in them, meaning your whole army MUST start in Reserves.

Im pretty sure it says somewhere only half of oyur army could start in reserve. Am I missing something?

Units that must be in Reserve do not count towards the tally.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
Im pretty sure it says somewhere only half of oyur army could start in reserve. Am I missing something?

Units that must start in reserve don't count to that 50%.

1 second ninja! Damn

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
Im pretty sure it says somewhere only half of oyur army could start in reserve. Am I missing something?

Things that must start in Reserve (flyers, drop pods etc) don't count towards the 50%, nor do units embarked on them. So I some cases it's possible to create a completely reserved force. Not recommended though...

Edit: Double Ninja'd!

 Ovion wrote:
With Necrons it's entirely possible to specifically build a list you automatically lose with, by taking evrything apart from the Lord / Overlord as a flyer, or in a flying dedicated transport, meaning you only have 1 deployable unit in your army, that you put in reserve.

Cue end of your turn 1 and rack up your loss, no need to take the army out of its box.

Oddly, while being in a transport that has to start in reserve exempts you from the reserve count, you don't have to start in a transport if you don't want to. So, you can make an army that auto-loses when you feel like it. This could actually be a great way to get out of annoying games, especially if your opponent deploys first, while still allowing you to play games you're interested in playing.

Or you could just man up and say 'Nah dude, I don't really feel like playing against you' without wasting anyone's time.

Nids are the only ones that can make a full army that MUST start in reserves (not counting Daemons which half of come in on Turn 1).

In a friendly game I could see house-ruling that the auto-lose rule has no effect.

 pretre wrote:
Or you could just man up and say 'Nah dude, I don't really feel like playing against you' without wasting anyone's time.

When someone's reached the point where I will actively avoid playing them, I want them to suffer, as I have suffered. Preferably by RaW.

Just spend the first 30 minutes moving your units

I'm glad they killed all reserve lists. Those games were just STUPID. May as well take one turn from the game. A battle needs 2 armies to fight ... otherwise, the other side should win, as they are present and controlling the board. I'm glad they changed this with this edition.

 evildrspock wrote:
I'm glad they killed all reserve lists. Those games were just STUPID. May as well take one turn from the game. A battle needs 2 armies to fight ... otherwise, the other side should win, as they are present and controlling the board. I'm glad they changed this with this edition.

Agreed. It ended the "You go first, so I'll reserve everything and your army can sit there with nothing to shoot at or assault for your first 2 turns, then I get a free shot at you." games.

People always seemm to forget about the "END OF GAME TURN" part and the fact that Drop pods come out on turn 1 when this question pops up.

On the flipside, Dark Eldar Players are really pissed with their WWP lists being made vitually useless.
Having a Haemy (or 6) in a Raider turboboosting up the table, to disembark and drop a WWP, out of which came half a dozen experiments was fun for them, but downright annoying for anyone else playing.

Just a thought, what would happen if there were two all deepstrike armies against each other, that reserved their whole army, meaning they both had nothing on the board at the end of their first turn?

-Farseer Tahril

A draw?

You continue on to the next turn:

"if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins."

Strictly speaking I think they both win.

Pyrian wrote:
Strictly speaking I think they both win.

Game ending at the end of turn one because you both reserved everything and could have prevented this outcome by leaving at least one model on the table? Strictly speaking, I think they both lost.

Happyjew wrote:
Nids are the only ones that can make a full army that MUST start in reserves (not counting Daemons which half of come in on Turn 1).

In a friendly game I could see house-ruling that the auto-lose rule has no effect.

Never heard of a drop pod army?

Smurf - they do not HAVE to start in reserve - you can stick models on the board if you wish

And even then Drop Pod Assault requires half of the pods to come down on turn one.

 Farseer Tahril wrote:
On the flipside, Dark Eldar Players are really pissed with their WWP lists being made vitually useless.
Having a Haemy (or 6) in a Raider turboboosting up the table, to disembark and drop a WWP, out of which came half a dozen experiments was fun for them, but downright annoying for anyone else playing.

Just a thought, what would happen if there were two all deepstrike armies against each other, that reserved their whole army, meaning they both had nothing on the board at the end of their first turn?

-Farseer Tahril

It would have been fun, if it was legal

It wasn't. You had to be able to disembark, and turboing disallowed that

These days you can plop a WWP 6'' from your start line, or pray hard that nothing manages to come in on a 3+ on turn 2 so that it might actually be useful.

I've found drop-pod armies far more annoying.

No army on the field .... Fooomph ... Aaaand everything dies to meltaguns to the rear armour that are within half range.. Yeah fun...


I've actually played a gmae in 5th wtith two full reserve armies in play. It was pretty stupid, especially when the other guy then failed all his reserve rolls, and spent ANOTHER turn with nothing on the board...

I second the Dark Eldar players being pissed.

It could easily be fixed by exiting webway portals being treated as disembarking an open-topped transport, then even the 50% reserve thing would be more livable.

No one imagined they'd mess with the reserve rules to that extent.

In the months leading up to it I had spent lots of time and money gathering and preparing grotesques, wracks, talos, extra haemonculi, an autarch and troops for eldar allies to have a viable and consistant entry from reserves and 9 portals (3-6 for standard games, additional 3 for apoc).

3-6 Units did not go into reserve.
12-14 would have.

Ok, fine 50% has to go in, I could probably mech it a little and go 7-10 in, same out.

But then my expensive, slow, relatively fragile, melee only units can't assault either. That pretty much killed it.

/rant.

At the end of the day though, I ultimately like 6th ed. Most changes have been nice, games have been closer and consistantly enjoyable and I think that GW have actually achieved their goal of a more 'cinematic' game.

Do I suppose 1 bitter pill isn't that bad at the end of the day.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Smurf - they do not HAVE to start in reserve - you can stick models on the board if you wish

But drop pods have to start in reserve and you can put your entire army in them, that would be a full reserve list. Things can start on the bord but that would almost be pointless for taking the drop pods.

Happyjew wrote:
Nids are the only ones that can make a full army that MUST start in reserves (not counting Daemons which half of come in on Turn 1).

Unless I missed something, FMC's don't have the "MUST start in Reserves requirement."