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More people have played 8th ed fantasy at my gaming club than ever played 7th as many prefer it.

Unfortunately 8th Edition killed Fantasy in my area also. No more big tournaments or even pick-up games around here.

WHFB is huge here. We have 2 days a week devoted to it at the LGS. If nothing else 8th ED made it bigger.

As I said: "the jury's out on whether 8th ed. increased the size of the game or not. It was the marmite of WFB editions...

It seems to have irritated some sections of the population to the point of rage-quitting, yet it has seemed to have brought others back into the game who had either left or never played before. More so than with many previous editions changes before it. Or maybe just the internet, and particularly the Warhammer podcast scene, were less developed back then.

Certainly it is a very different "style" than 7th. Whether that is a good or a bad thing depends on what type of person you are and what style of games you enjoy, I guess.

In the past, local tournaments would get 30-40 people. The one last weekend had 6.

I think people are wising up to the fact that the new rules are just an engine for model sales rather than an improved game.

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
There's always some one complaining about and quitting some game on these forums, and that's not this post. This post is about the sharp decline in Warhammer FB players and traders. When I joined Dakka, there seemed to be a good amount of both fantasy and 40k players. It was easy for me to trade a fantasy army to 40k and back again on numerous occasions. Now, it seems like every trade is fantasy models looking for 40k. Has it always been this way and I was just fortunate in the past to find fair trades, or is there an exodus from WHFB? I personally am currently trying to trade 2 decent sized fantasy armies, and am even offering to sell them at half of retail and I'm having no luck (and these are mostly unpainted, some un-assembled models! I for one am not leaving fantasy, and am merelyy trying to part with some extra armies as I have settled in with my two favorite armies, but are a lot of people leaving the hobby? I'm just looking for some information. Thanks all

During events like a new edition release, this is standard action. There is also the issue of the cheaper priced alternatives and more game choices that are blatently telling.

GW is not and has never been "The Hobby". That crap was some sort of propaganda gone wrong on them from sometime when they were at the top of the heap.


Bottom line for them, is that they are now just another fella. people have other things that they are doing that they do not want to spend over $1,000 for an army.

It sucks for me. I just started playing dwarfs in fantasy and the store I currently go to is at the moment, practically 40k exclusive. I know there are two or three warhammer players, but not enough. I know the main reason for this is this tournament thing going on for 40k in the store, and I've been trying to convince the manager to start one for warhammer as well. The way the tournament was designed, was to slowly build up in point sizes until boom. Army.

 Phototoxin wrote:
8th ed killed fantasy. It was at its hight at 6th ed I think. 7th ed just nerfbatted magic but everything was more or less similar. 8th ed did a complete 180 while taking LSD and snorting cocaine from a warpstone covered table...

Except for the horrible three (VC, DE, DoC) Who pretty much killed it in my area for fantasy because nobody wanted to play any of those lists.

I find it amusing you say its because people can see through the rulesbook as a model sales device.

The latest 6E rulebook for 40k is so blatant as a model sales device its hurts.

Flyers are OP for a reason, Terrain is a major factor of the game... Allies and the 2nd FOC are due to model sales etc etc...

That means by your reckoning 6E will fall off sharply in the near future as players get disillusioned at the corporate greed of GW. I think that is happening regardless of WHFBr 40K... People are at the tipping point with GW.

Warhammer Fantasy = that game that I'll begrudgingly play if there's no-one around that wants to play Kings of War instead.

40k 6th edition = That game that I can't even be bothered to relearn as it is a 200-page tome of hideous overcomplexity and all the codexes are out of date.

I might pick up an Eldar army for old time's sake (assuming Matt Ward doesn't get paid to take a dump all over their background), but that's going to be the full extent of my dealings with GW miniatures in future... if they actually bother to getting around to giving a non-SPEESH MAHREENS codex a slight bit of attention (current codex is freaking mid 4th edition, and we'll probably be mid-6th before they get anything).

I see 40K as the gateway drug to WFB. I'm not saying one's better than the other - I like bits and bobs from each - but it's fairly obvious that 40K is the more universally played game.

They won't let WFB die though and in what, two years or so, a new starter set and rulebook will come out and it'll be ubiquitous for a while. I only started WFB because 8th and IoB put it on my radar after growing up believing it was similar to Necromunda or Blood Bowl in scope.

WHFB is dying in my region. Warmachine has taken it's place.

The opposite is true also though, the last WFB edition basically wiped out all 40k at my local for months, now a new 40k edition is out, WFB is effectively dead for months.

It eventually balances out now that the cores are set the only thing that will flux the number of gamers is people either getting or waiting on a new codex or armybook.

However after the last edition of Fantasy I'll happily admit I've not played much, maybe 9-10 games of fantasy, as it doesn't grip me as much as 40k does and the fact that with Fantasy I've never been able to find a army I'm happy with.

Warmachine has beat the snot out of fantasy in my area. We have a few guys that play fantasy, but mainly because they already have armies.

Only reason I play 40k anymore is because I don't like fantasy styled games, and 40k is the only scifi game around here with a good following aside from infinity, and I really dislike their models.

Dust is getting quite a bit of a following, and flames of war is popular, so if 40k ever died down I know where I would go. Still, its a shame there aren't any other real alternatives for sci fi stuff around here.

No idea, but honestly since you've joined I've picked up a Fantasy army and am in the process of planning a second. If it makes you feel any better. Fantasy had never had a strong following around here, we've got like 3 players total.

Milisim wrote:I find it amusing you say its because people can see through the rulesbook as a model sales device.

The latest 6E rulebook for 40k is so blatant as a model sales device its hurts.

Flyers are OP for a reason, Terrain is a major factor of the game... Allies and the 2nd FOC are due to model sales etc etc...

Definitely.

In a normal game, you get a new edition when a print run sells out, or when game development has improved and it's time to update the rules with the improvements, any errata that has been issues, etc.,. GW puts out a new edition not with any mind towards improvement, but merely change for change's sake so they can sell different models to their existing customer base. The fact that the codexes are all out of date and that 6th is basically compatible with 3rd through 5th shows that they're not actually make a new edition, they're just tweaking things to sell models by making something the new optimal choice.

With WFB it was even more blatant with the hordes rule and the text about average game sizes pushing up the points size even further.

That means by your reckoning 6E will fall off sharply in the near future as players get disillusioned at the corporate greed of GW. I think that is happening regardless of WHFBr 40K... People are at the tipping point with GW.

People are at a tipping point. GW has priced their stuff so that people will get in with a starter but then can't really complete a full sized army unless they're a life long gamer. It's just too much money. And with WFB's higher model count, the tipping comes earlier.

frozenwastes wrote:

That means by your reckoning 6E will fall off sharply in the near future as players get disillusioned at the corporate greed of GW. I think that is happening regardless of WHFBr 40K... People are at the tipping point with GW.

People are at a tipping point. GW has priced their stuff so that people will get in with a starter but then can't really complete a full sized army unless they're a life long gamer. It's just too much money. And with WFB's higher model count, the tipping comes earlier.

I remember the first time I saw a fantasy game. Made collecting foot guard look like a bargain.

I don't know how people can afford to play fantasy. An orks army must cost as much as a small car.

 Milisim wrote:
I find it amusing you say its because people can see through the rulesbook as a model sales device.

The latest 6E rulebook for 40k is so blatant as a model sales device its hurts.

Flyers are OP for a reason, Terrain is a major factor of the game... Allies and the 2nd FOC are due to model sales etc etc...

I find it amusing how regardless of what GW does, it's a money grab. When Allies were discontinued, it was a money grab, when they are allowed again, it's a money grab...

As I see it, it was 5th Edition 40k which began decline of Fantasy. Back in the day, WHFB players regularly mocked stupid, no-tactics 40k. Then 5th edition 40k rolled in, Fantasy players began to switch over, particularly because army balance was much better in 40k.

8th ruined fantasy for me and there has been a lot of forum discontent about it. I have also seen a lot less games being played.

Anecdotal evidence of course but its a commonyl repeated story.

40K has been outselling fntasy for years.

I think WHFB is just too expensive and laborous to start for most players. It seems existing WHFB players prefer pretty large games, for a newbie to get to same level requires very large investment in both money and painting. In addition GW "package deals" like Battalions have got steadily worse in value for money, making it even more expensive than before to field a large army. Some people buy Mantic figs for Fantasy line infantry.

Someone mentioned aesthetics. IMHO, Fantasy line has become too toylike, too exaggarated. There are still great models released every now and then, but many are more like cartoonish rather than grimdark. 'Eavy Metal paintjobs, which tend to be very bright with exaggarated highlights, don't help the image.

In my area 8th injected a new breath of life into fantasy, and a lot of lapsed players got back into it, and new players took it up. I think its very much a case of different areas have different reactions based on the prevailing type of players - most of our lot are more into campaign weekends (like the ones run by Tempus Fugitives) than tournaments for example, so the greater emphasis on narrative, spectacle and 'cool stuff' suits us better than 7th's more tournament oriented ruleset.

I know its anecdotal, but when I went for an interview for a GW studio job a while ago I got the distinct impression from chatting to people there that 8th was a considerable success financially for them - the number of new and returning players far outweighed the number who ragequit.

From what I have seen locally is fantasy attracts older players. These guys n girls are likley going to have their own house with their own beers and would rather game at home.

Both my wife and I started fantasy at the start of the year and enjoy it. I hadn't played it for a long time, last starter set I had was elves vs orcs where each side had cardboard cutouts for monsters and warmachines

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

frozenwastes wrote:

That means by your reckoning 6E will fall off sharply in the near future as players get disillusioned at the corporate greed of GW. I think that is happening regardless of WHFBr 40K... People are at the tipping point with GW.

People are at a tipping point. GW has priced their stuff so that people will get in with a starter but then can't really complete a full sized army unless they're a life long gamer. It's just too much money. And with WFB's higher model count, the tipping comes earlier.

I remember the first time I saw a fantasy game. Made collecting foot guard look like a bargain.

I don't know how people can afford to play fantasy. An orks army must cost as much as a small car.

Thing is, Fantasy you can get into for most factions by buying a couple battleforces and a character or two. Generally about $400 at Canadian retail prices. Considering I spent that much money on a bunch of Identical vehicles in 40k, I would rather play fantasy, where every grunt is unique.

The simple fact is that Fantasy has lagged in sales behind 40K since Rogue Trader was released in the last 1980's.

That being said, WHFB is stronger in the North Metro Atlanta area now than it has been in the last 10 years. When I first moved here, you could go months at a time without even seeing an advertisement for a tournament or seeing a single game being played. Now, tournaments are fairly regular, and there are people playing several times a week.

Different areas have different demographics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Palindrome wrote:

40K has been outselling fntasy for years.

40K has been outselling Fantasy for Decades, more accurately.

8th made fantasy more popular around in my area really. And we lost some less pleasant players when it came so a win win situation

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Warmachine has beat the snot out of fantasy in my area. We have a few guys that play fantasy, but mainly because they already have armies.

Only reason I play 40k anymore is because I don't like fantasy styled games, and 40k is the only scifi game around here with a good following aside from infinity, and I really dislike their models.

Dust is getting quite a bit of a following, and flames of war is popular, so if 40k ever died down I know where I would go. Still, its a shame there aren't any other real alternatives for sci fi stuff around here.

Dust is the opposite here, the manager has put the stuff on clearance, gave me a sad face.
I would star it if someone would play it with me,

I'm making the switch to Fantasy.

I've played 40k for years (though I only played about 3 games of 5th) and used to think Fantasy was stupid.

I didn't like the idea of all the models ranked up (hiding months worth of painting) and all the cash that had to be spent just to make a 2000pt list.

Over the years I've seen a lot of new 40k players... or Space Marine players, rather.

I started buying fantasy rulebooks when the Wood Elves got their newer rulebook. After reading the fluff from fantasy I was sold.

I liked the confirmed timeline. I liked the definitive territories. I liked that the characters had more history than "They killed orks and then eldar and then some chaos stuff and then they were awesome!"

I've got myself a nice Warriors of Chaos army going and I only have 2 friends interested in playing WHFB (Skaven and High Elves... ) but that isn't stopping us from collecting more models.

The only real problem I have with GW is their prices and marketing methods. At least I think it's the marketing methods.

I will NEVER play warmahordes for two basic reasons: The models are ugly as all gak (imho) and the "cards" (I'll just lose them).

GW sells me good looking models. To me, the models make the game.

There are no other companies that produce models that I'd be interested in painting (with the exception of a few reaper models... and some Confrontation.

I don't spend a lot of time at the FLGS these days, but when I pop in to stare at stuff I want to waste my paycheck on I see a lot of Warmahordes junk on the gaming tables.

I love 40k but frankly I'm probably gonna paint through most of 6th ed. If there is one thing GW has taught me, it's patience.

The local WHFB scene seems to be done fine, although there is a bit of a schism between comp and no-comp players on the national level. I did hear that the retailers at the latest Hyperion (an organization for "fantastic free time pursuits" in Norway) complained that sales of WHFB has fallen dramatically in the last year, though, to the extent that many of the smaller shops and the webshops have stopped taking in goods as they can't sell it.

When I used to play WHFB, we never played at the store. We didn't get to play that often, so when we did play, it was all day. It never felt right using a table at the store for that many hours (3 player 3k+ pts can take awhile) when we could just play at someone's house.

What I want to see is a new run of support for Warhammer Skirmish/Warbands. I wound up spending a few months converting all the old skirmish scenarios to Ganesha Games' Song of Blades and Heroes so we can keep playing in a more balanced/supported way.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2012/09/interesting-trends-in-40k-gaming.html

Good read overall. Another way of data mining information. The url fits in here since it does some tracking of WHFB.