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Hi Dakka,
I have a few questions about using battlements on a bastion.

Can the battlements be destroyed by hits separately with the main building unhurt, or is it the main building that takes the hits?

Similarly, can the bottom of a building be destroyed, and the battlements still be ok? And the unit in the main building would disembark onto the battlements?

Does a hit on the battlements by a blast weapon that also covers the gun hit the gun and the battlements?

If an enemy unit is in one part of the building, an a friendly unit is in another part, can I shoot at it?

Any help would be great

Isn't that all covered in the rulebook?

It is all talked about yes, but I want to be sure about what I think I know so I don't end up using them wrong, as I apparently have been already.

 DakkaHammer wrote:
Hi Dakka,
I have a few questions about using battlements on a bastion.

Can the battlements be destroyed by hits separately with the main building unhurt, or is it the main building that takes the hits?

Similarly, can the bottom of a building be destroyed, and the battlements still be ok? And the unit in the main building would disembark onto the battlements?

Does a hit on the battlements by a blast weapon that also covers the gun hit the gun and the battlements?

If an enemy unit is in one part of the building, an a friendly unit is in another part, can I shoot at it?

Any help would be great

Ill take a shot at it as I was confused by a few of these things as well originally. But from what I have come to understand.
1, you can never destroy battlements, they are for all purposes just a cover save given to models on top of the building. It would be like saying can you destroy ruins models are in. The main building always takes the hits.
2, if a building is destroyed the unit on the roof has use the jump from the roof rules and since the building is now considered impassable terrain you can't get back up to them.
3. Yes it will hit the gun and the building.
4. This one is kind of different. If the enemy is on the battlements you can't shoot the building, you target the enemy models on the roof. If a friendly unit is on the battlements and an enemy is inside then yes you can shoot at the building despite that if it was destroyed it could end up killing your own squad. This is especially dangerous because if both you and your opponent are forced to abandon the building then whoever gets to abandon it first will make sure to space his units out to prevent the other player from getting out. And I have no idea which player would get to move his models first. I suppose you would have to roll off.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/280663.page

Moving to YMDC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IcedAnimals wrote:
1, you can never destroy battlements, they are for all purposes just a cover save given to models on top of the building. It would be like saying can you destroy ruins models are in. The main building always takes the hits.

This is incorrect. As per the 'Multiple Part Buildings' section and the 'Battlements' section, buildings with battlements are treated as multiple part buildings, which means you can choose to target either the main building or the battlements, or the unit on the battlements.

2, if a building is destroyed the unit on the roof has use the jump from the roof rules and since the building is now considered impassable terrain you can't get back up to them.

The only damage result on the main building that also affects the battlements is the 'Total Collase' result.

The rules are a little unclear as to whether a unit forced to disembark from a building can choose to instead move to another part of a multiple part building, but given that the rules do allow it for a consolidation move, I see no problem with it.

4. This one is kind of different. If the enemy is on the battlements you can't shoot the building, you target the enemy models on the roof.

As with question one, in this case you can actually shoot either the enemy unit or the battlements.

Ok, so when you hit the main building with a blast weapon and the template is over the roof, would it still only hit the main building?

And with barrage weapons would you then have to destroy the battlements before you could hit the main part, unless you had the hole end on the ground but the template still tough the building?

There aren't any rules covering how blasts and barrage weapons work against multiple part buildings stacked on top of each other. So how that's supposed to work is anyone's guess.

I think applying the rules for Ruins (nominating which level you are attacking for Blast, always hitting the highest level for Barrage) seems like the easiest option.

actually insaniak I was not incorrect, you can not hurt the battlements, they have no stats whatso ever. If you could damage the battlements since they have no armor value then a str 3 blast would practically auto destroy them. Battlements are treated as a seperate entity from the building and are ignored when you are rolling to do damage to the building.

and a quick edit about question 2. The only way to get onto battlements is to use an access point or be jump infantry/deepstrike onto them. But since the building once destroyed counts as impassable terrain there is no longer an access point and you can't purposefully attempt to deepstrike into impassable terrain. I suppose jump infantry following the rule for "if your models can physically stand on it then they can go there but count as dangerous terrain" would be able to get back onto the battlements in the case of a building collapsing.

* Buildings with battlements are 'a multi-part building' (pg. 95 first paragraph).
* 'treat it as two or more smaller buildings joined together' (pg. 92 2nd column 3rd paragraph)
* You 'agree at the start of the game on the Armour Value of all buildings in use' (pg. 92 1st column, 4th paragraph)

If it was a bastion, obviously it'd be AV 14 all around, but you still have to agree to that before the game starts.

 IcedAnimals wrote:
actually insaniak I was not incorrect, you can not hurt the battlements, they have no stats whatso ever. If you could damage the battlements since they have no armor value then a str 3 blast would practically auto destroy them. Battlements are treated as a seperate entity from the building and are ignored when you are rolling to do damage to the building.

You're partly correct there... They are indeed a separate entity, but the rules for both multi part buildings and for Battlements tell us to treat them as a separate building.

So they would have the appropriate armour for the building that they are built onto, unless you and your opponent for some reason choose to give them something different.

and a quick edit about question 2. The only way to get onto battlements is to use an access point or be jump infantry/deepstrike onto them. But since the building once destroyed counts as impassable terrain there is no longer an access point and you can't purposefully attempt to deepstrike into impassable terrain. I suppose jump infantry following the rule for "if your models can physically stand on it then they can go there but count as dangerous terrain" would be able to get back onto the battlements in the case of a building collapsing.

The building that is destroyed becomes impassable... but the battlement is a separate building. You wouldn't be able to get to the battlements through the impassable lower building, but there is nothing stopping jump troops from landing there as normal.

Battlements do not have an armor value and are not treated as buildings as per the big rule book faq.

Q. If so, do battlements count as a separate building, or is the
bastion a multi-part building? (p95)
A: Battlements are treated as being separate from the
building itself, simply acting as cover for any models on top
of the building in question – see the rules for battlements on
page 95.
Q. What is the armour value of battlements? (p95)
A: Battlements have no armour value as they are not a
building. They serve to protect any models on the roof of
the building in the same way as barricades and walls (see
page 104), offering a 4+ cover save.

can you destroy an aegis defense line? of course not, and you can't destroy battlements either, they are treated exactly like an aegis that just happens to be on top of a building.

The building that is destroyed becomes impassable... but the battlement is a separate building. You wouldn't be able to get to the battlements through the impassable lower building, but there is nothing stopping jump troops from landing there as normal.

Aside from the battlement being a building that is what I said. Jump troops could get back up there as normal, they would just have to take dangerous terrain checks since the battlements are in impassable terrain. Just like if they were to jump on any other impassable terrain with a flat enough top that you could set them down.

Excellent... I find myself starting to wonder if whoever wrote the FAQ has actually read the rulebook, since that is quite clearly completely contradicting the rules for Battlements provided therein.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, with that change they appear to have missed this bit from page 96:

"The battlements take 1 hit from a thrown grenade, just like any other building."

So if we're no longer treating battlements as buildings, how exactly do they expect that hit to be resolved...?

I guess that the grenade hit would have to be on the main bastion... since that seems to be the only thing able to take the hit.

This really is weird. They are a still a separate building, but don't have an armor value and are treated like barricades on top of a building.

Yup. Way to take perfectly servicable rules and turn them into an unworkable mess, GW...