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So I am constructing a stand in army for nids, have been for a long time. I constructed my "tervigons" long before the actual model was even released, or even pictures of the actual model for that matter. I recently went to a gaming event and there were a few people belly-aching that I wasn't using the proper sized base for the tervigon. It wasn't a gaming issue, more just chatter at my army in a general sense.

Now, my argument is that normally you must default to the base size provided for the model, and whatever bases were provided are the legal ones to use. But in this case, since there was no actual model to get a base size from, I defaulted to what most people who built their own tervigons did, which is simply use the 3" carnifex, tyrant, etc. base.

Must I rip my model off of the current base and place it on the new one for no other reason than they released a new model?

I would say yes for tourney purposes. I hate the be tfg but it makes a world of difference in this edition with random charges.

You must update a model's base to fit its new size. Had to do it to my Screaming bell from 3rd WHFB. Just get some plasticard, cut it to shape, glue your dude on it, and frock and paint it man. Simple fix for a common issue.

 Sirmauz wrote:
You must update a model's base to fit its new size.

There is no requirement to do this in 40K. The rules just require you to use the base the model cam with.

The issue here though isn't from a model's base changing, it's from a model being used before there was an official model to judge the size by. And in that case, I agree that you should alter your model to match the 'correct' size.

Don't rip it apart, just glue the current base to the larger base. Either the actual base, or something else cut to size.

 insaniak wrote:

 Sirmauz wrote:
You must update a model's base to fit its new size.

There is no requirement to do this in 40K. The rules just require you to use the base the model cam with.

The issue here though isn't from a model's base changing, it's from a model being used before there was an official model to judge the size by. And in that case, I agree that you should alter your model to match the 'correct' size.

Agreed 100%,

For example if you had the old termies that came on the small 25mil bases, you can still use them on those bases. However you may not put the new ones on smaller bases.

With your case as Insaniak said, you should "fix" the base.

You can use em on the old bases, but if someone bitches enough in a tourney they WILL penalize you. Saw it here in Bham. Dude ran old terms DA DWing with the infantry bases, deepstruck em in a really shalllow area, and opponent had a fit. Said the old bases allowed em to DS without danger, but the right ones would have made em take a DTC. It got ugly, and the TO ruled in the dude who complained's favor. It aint like it'd kill ya to udate the base anyway if you do it my way. I did, and with some more paint and flock they 1: Look fine and 2: No one can bitch about base size.

 Sirmauz wrote:
You can use em on the old bases, but if someone bitches enough in a tourney they WILL penalize you.

Two points there... for one (again) rebasing terminators from the bases they came with is a completely different issue to rebasing a stand-in you made before there was an official model. And for two, how either of these pans out in a tournie is really just going to come down to the TO. I've heard plenty of stories of TOs being strict on base sizes... but the events I've been playing in locally have all been fairly relaxed about it, unless its's something particularly abusive.

I wouldn't really care. Its not like its going to affect charge or movement distance anyways. But if you are thinking of playing in tournaments, then yes I would update it.

Insaniak, think we both are moving round the same point, it all depends on your TO. The only reason I would do it definitely is just to cut down on the hassle and bs if you were to run into the d-bag judges. You know, better to have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it...

Where tournaments are concerned, the other easy option is to simply ask the TO before the event. I did that for the first tournie I ran my Orks in, as a few of my models are on non-standard bases (Kans and Bikes on 60mm round, and Nobs on non-GW 30mm bases) just to make sure it wouldn't be a problem.

If you're using a model that is significantly different to the official version, that's another good time to do the same. So long as you get that approval before hand, there should be no worry about using them.

tyranids adapt.

The official model, now that it is finally out, does set the appropriate standard by which any conversions will be measured. Most of the carnifex-conversions out there are undersized (which gets them cover/out of LOS easier), or on 60mm round bases (which has a number of advantageous game effects, and 2 significant drawbacks).

I would strongly recommend rebasing. It will save you some flak, is pretty easy to do,* and gives you a couple benefits you're currently lacking.**

*If nothing else, trace a Trygon/flyer base onto plasticard, cut it out, and attach your existing base. But many companies make bases of that size now, and those are cheaper than buying Tervigon kits.
**1) You gain threat radius for Termagant spawning, as your base is larger (meaning the "within 6 inches" range is also larger); and 2) the buff range for the Tervigon (Synapse, psychic powers, Termagant buffs) is similarly increased for a model on a larger base.

The most recent base size change was the Biovore.
Before finecast they all had 40mm, now they have 60mm to match the Pyrovore (and the Biovore picture in the codex).

Believe it or not but base sizes are taken into account for a models point cost.

While the Rulebook does not take bases strictly into account, it does say that you should base models fairly and appropriately compared to similarly related models. So GW pretty much calls you "That Guy" if you argue about not using the intended/appropriate base size.

Base sizes do matter and so do bases on anything that isn't a vehicle.

Bikes are now all required to have bases and models should to be on the intended size base even if at the time of purchase they were not.

No non vehicle/artillery model comes without a base anymore, if you don't know the intended base size then check a recent packaging of the kit or ask your friendly GW employee

Yes it sucks that you have to change the base, but it's one of the few actual modeling side rules changes that happens and considering how easy it is their really isn't an excuse except laziness.

 Prodromus wrote:
Believe it or not but base sizes are taken into account for a models point cost.

Given GW's previously stated method of setting points costs based on what 'feels' right, no, I don't believe it, to be honest.

While the Rulebook does not take bases strictly into account, it does say that you should base models fairly and appropriately compared to similarly related models. So GW pretty much calls you "That Guy" if you argue about not using the intended/appropriate base size.

I have no idea where you're getting that from, because my rulebook says nothing of the sort.

It very clearly says that models should be on the base with which they came. The bit about comparing to similar models is talking about models that didn't come with a base for some reason. There is no requirement either stated or hinted at in the rules for you to rebase older models that came with a different sized base to the current version.

As far as I know the only old model that has been completly banned from use is the second edition Eldar Avatar (I used to play Eldar before Nids existed).
No real suprise though as a modern plastic space marine is bigger and on the same base.

Does it matter if i've got my Carnifex-igons on the correct base, but there obviously a fair bit smaller?


when i say does it matter, i really mean, will i get a telling off or get kicked out of a tournemant?

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Does it matter if i've got my Carnifex-igons on the correct base, but there obviously a fair bit smaller?


when i say does it matter, i really mean, will i get a telling off or get kicked out of a tournemant?

It has yet to be an issue for me.

ymmv

Gloomfang wrote:As far as I know the only old model that has been completly banned from use is the second edition Eldar Avatar (I used to play Eldar before Nids existed).

Banned from use by whom?

GW doesn't 'ban' models, and anywhere else it's going to come down to whoever is in charge of the game at hand. Some players might certainly object to it, and I could see some TO's insisting on at the very least having the model on a scenic base to bump up its height a little, or just treating it as a modern Avatar... but there is no blanket, worldwide ban of this or any other model.


(And it was actually the Rogue Trader Avatar... The 2nd edition version is the model still available now.)

Bloodhorror wrote:Does it matter if i've got my Carnifex-igons on the correct base, but there obviously a fair bit smaller?
when i say does it matter, i really mean, will i get a telling off or get kicked out of a tournemant?

That's going to depend on the To. As a general rule, if you're using models that are susbtantially different to the proper model, run it past the TO beforehand. That way you avoid any potential unpleasantness on the day.

Step 1) Get oval flyer base.
Step 2) Cut hole in flyer base just large enough to fit the 60mm MC base inside it.
Step 3) Flock and paint flyer base to match your current base.
Step 4) ???
Step 5) Profit.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Does it matter if i've got my Carnifex-igons on the correct base, but there obviously a fair bit smaller?


when i say does it matter, i really mean, will i get a telling off or get kicked out of a tournemant?

Do your conversions look cool? Seriously, it usually comes down to the "rule of cool." But in any case, be willing to play them as if they had the profile of the current model for all purposes that hurt you/help your opponent, and you won't have problems.

 gameandwatch wrote:
Must I rip my model off of the current base

A 60mm base will easily fit on top of the 120mm x 94mm oval base. Or were you hoping to get sympathies from other modelers by invoking the imagery of partial destruction of a miniature?

Chances are your model is notably smaller than the official model, gaining a distinct advantage in the cover save department. That can be argued as unintentional, since that happen due to the original model's size. Keeping the base when there was no confirmation of Tervigon's base size was mostly understandable*. But now that the Tervigon is out, expecting an opponent's custom model to match the base size of the official model is pretty reasonable since the base size has in game effects.

Now building up the 120mm x 94mm base to raise the height of the custom figure to approximate height of the official Tervigon would be the sporting thing to do.