Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 06:28:51
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
The Urban tiles really make me want to get cracking on some more buildings and make a city table.
The price just makes me want a zuzzy broken blacktop mat.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 06:56:52
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
|
Cityscape tiles... so you can pay ludicrous amounts for it and still not have any actual terrain...
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/19 06:57:03
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 07:08:52
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Phanobi
|
Isn't there an Aussie company that does pretty good cityfight tiles? This makes me want to get them instead.
|
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings. Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.
Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.
This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.
A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 07:10:22
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
|
I know which one you're talking about (although I can't for the life of me remember the company's name). They may be a bit fiddly though as they have multiple layers and whatnot.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/19 07:10:35
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 10:01:01
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Lit By the Flames of Prospero
|
I love that Typhon and the city scape stuff looks cool too, pity it costs an arm and a leg, i wont be purchasing them.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 10:54:18
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Missouri
|
...$120+ per tile?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA no. It looks good, but seriously? Even at half the price I'd say you're out of your god-damned mind*.
*Funnily enough I originally typed "money" instead of "mind" by accident. Both seem appropriate however.
|
Desubot wrote:Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game." |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 11:54:14
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Stealthy Grot Snipa
|
Good god those tiles are expensive. You could probably hire an independent terrain/board maker to create a full 6'x4' table for less than the cost of 6 of those city tiles.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:00:54
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
[DCM]
.
|
Sidstyler wrote:...$120+ per tile?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA no. It looks good, but seriously? Even at half the price I'd say you're out of your god-damned mind
I don't know about that - at $60 each I think they'd sell a lot, and might actually be 'worth' it...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:06:17
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Everything for the HH is looking outrageously expensive, I would never in a million years pay £95 for that tank and certainly nowhere near £70 for the bikes!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:18:15
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Irked Necron Immortal
Dayton, Ohio
|
I really want mk IV armor but ... ugh don't know if its worth my wifes wrath at the overall cost...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:21:58
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Hello Forgeworld.. people want to buy your cityscape boards to make an ENTIRE board with not 1 section. Therefore if they cannot afford an entire board then they won't even buy a single piece.
IE make it affordable to purchase 6. Even I won't buy these at those prices.
|
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500, |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:25:19
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
|
It baffles me, really. Without sounding like too much of an arse, I would say I am fairly well off with disposable income enough; certainly more so than your average teenager/youngster. With that being said, if I can baulk at FW's prices, then it kind of begs the question, who the hell is buying this stuff? The sort of person who would pay £100 for what is effectively a glorified chess piece and not blink, if I am being rhetorical, clearly...
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/19 12:26:13
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:45:55
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Alpharius wrote:I don't know about that - at $60 each I think they'd sell a lot, and might actually be 'worth' it...
Especially when the standard realm of battle tiles are about $50 each, and these are much better.
But really, the price isn't all that surprising. Don't forget that you're talking about a 2'x2' resin model, and some of that price probably includes the increase in shipping cost compared to a "normal" $100 resin model. Does it mean that making a full 6x4 table is expensive? Of course, but there's no getting around that when you're using a much more expensive material than the typical wood and foam table (usually with a fraction of the detail), and it's really a case of "you get what you pay for".
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:47:23
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Bounding Assault Marine
|
No justification for the price. I commented as much on their facebook page along with some others. If it had any dimension to it, that would help, but that is waaaaay to much
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:53:17
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Lit By the Flames of Prospero
|
filbert wrote:It baffles me, really. Without sounding like too much of an arse, I would say I am fairly well off with disposable income enough; certainly more so than your average teenager/youngster.
With that being said, if I can baulk at FW's prices, then it kind of begs the question, who the hell is buying this stuff? The sort of person who would pay £100 for what is effectively a glorified chess piece and not blink, if I am being rhetorical, clearly...
I can only assume that there are people with more money and less sense than ourselves, and in my case, thats saying something
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/09/19 12:53:58
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:55:17
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
|
Rayvon wrote:
I can only assume that there are people with more money and less sense than ourselves, and in my case, thats saying something  (not so much with the money part)
Well, someone once joked that GW's ultimate goal is to sell one kit to one customer per year priced at a million pounds. I can only imagine FW are striving harder to hit that goal.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 12:58:49
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Rayvon wrote:I can only assume that there are people with more money and less sense than ourselves, and in my case, thats saying something
I don't really see why it's a question of sense. If you want to make a table with that level of detail and durability you're going to spend a lot of hours on it (if you even have the skills to build it at all), and I suspect the raw material costs aren't going to be all that cheap. Time is money, and it makes a lot of sense to just buy the table if someone is producing the kind of scenery you want.
Now, if you're the kind of person who is content to play on a sheet of foam spray painted green, of course it doesn't make sense to buy a $700 table, but this product isn't intended for you.
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:04:04
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
|
Peregrine wrote: Rayvon wrote:I can only assume that there are people with more money and less sense than ourselves, and in my case, thats saying something I don't really see why it's a question of sense. If you want to make a table with that level of detail and durability you're going to spend a lot of hours on it (if you even have the skills to build it at all), and I suspect the raw material costs aren't going to be all that cheap. Time is money, and it makes a lot of sense to just buy the table if someone is producing the kind of scenery you want. Now, if you're the kind of person who is content to play on a sheet of foam spray painted green, of course it doesn't make sense to buy a $700 table, but this product isn't intended for you. If your time and/or lack of modelling skill is really that lacking then you could probably pay a professional much less than £300 or whatever the US equivalent is to make a similar terrain board. Even for a luxury product aimed at a very niche market, it is wildly overpriced, IMO.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/19 13:04:43
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:10:05
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Bounding Assault Marine
|
While i agree that they are nice, and they should be expensive, and if folks want a super nice board they have to spend loot to get it or lots of time... That much money, per tile, for what you get, a relatively flat foundation of a building, with some odds and ends bits of rubble along a street, with no walls, no interior, nothing else.. it's just too much. I have a nice enough board with GW ruins, and the dimensions that those add far outweigh these tiles in realism and game effect.
Now, if they are coming out with kits to add onto these, making them more 3-D, that will make them even more desirable, but I would simply buy the ruin kits, likely a bit cheaper, and build the foundation.
They are just too expensive for me. Which is a shame because I like good terrain!!!!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:11:28
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
filbert wrote:If your time and/or lack of modelling skill is really that lacking then you could probably pay a professional much less than £300 or whatever the US equivalent is to make a similar terrain board. Even for a luxury product aimed at a very niche market, it is wildly overpriced, IMO.
If that's true, then I have no idea how any "professional" makes a decent income from their work. $500 doesn't buy many hours of work at anything remotely resembling professional rates (at least in non-gaming fields), and building an entire custom 6x4 table at that level of detail is going to take a lot of hours plus the raw material costs. If you offered me $500 for that kind of project I'd laugh at you and tell you to add a zero or two to the end of it before I'd even consider the deal.
Plus there's the durability factor. Your professional might be able to scratchbuild a nice table, but will you be able to play on it without destroying it? Probably not, which means you're going to have to cast it anyway. And I'm not really an expert on the subject, but I have a feeling that making the molds and buying the resin is going to cost enough time and money that the FW tiles start to look a lot more appealing.
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:14:15
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Lit By the Flames of Prospero
|
filbert wrote: Peregrine wrote: Rayvon wrote:I can only assume that there are people with more money and less sense than ourselves, and in my case, thats saying something
I don't really see why it's a question of sense. If you want to make a table with that level of detail and durability you're going to spend a lot of hours on it (if you even have the skills to build it at all), and I suspect the raw material costs aren't going to be all that cheap. Time is money, and it makes a lot of sense to just buy the table if someone is producing the kind of scenery you want.
Now, if you're the kind of person who is content to play on a sheet of foam spray painted green, of course it doesn't make sense to buy a $700 table, but this product isn't intended for you.
If your time and/or lack of modelling skill is really that lacking then you could probably pay a professional much less than £300 or whatever the US equivalent is to make a similar terrain board. Even for a luxury product aimed at a very niche market, it is wildly overpriced, IMO.
This.
Even for a "time is money" chap, it would still make more sense to buy the cheapest right ?
To me, for the price, it really is not value for money, or anywhere near it, good terrain is expensive, but this is almost just a base for some buildings or ruins.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:14:37
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Master Melta wrote:Now, if they are coming out with kits to add onto these, making them more 3-D, that will make them even more desirable, but I would simply buy the ruin kits, likely a bit cheaper, and build the foundation.
The idea is that you add your own ruins ( GW or other) on top of the foundation. It's meant to fix the problem with most attempts at city tables, the fact that the ruins aren't integrated into the surrounding table very well. Or, if you don't want to have ruins, you aren't stuck with the same layout all the time, you can just take the ruin off and play with the relatively open foundation.
Plus, there's a lot more depth to those than is immediately obvious from a picture at that angle. See that wreck? That's a Rhino. Now compare the height of it to the height of some of those foundations.
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:16:36
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Bounding Assault Marine
|
If I could get an entire 6 x 4 for 400, I would do it, maybe 500, but ~700 US that's just too much, again, in my opinion for what you get....
Im not saying a 2x2 resin FW city tile isn't worth it, but those, at least from judging those pics, there's just not enough....
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:18:27
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Rayvon wrote:Even for a "time is money" chap, it would still make more sense to buy the cheapest right ?
That depends on whether you want quality or not. You can build a 6x4 table for less than $700, but will it have the same level of detail and durability? Not very likely. If that's fine, go right ahead and buy something cheaper and accept that it won't look as nice. Or, if you want a top-quality table you'd better get used to the fact that $700 is on the low end of the time/money scale.
And I'll believe that you can commission a custom 6x4 table at that level of quality for less than $700 when I see someone do it. And then I'll laugh at them for doing custom modeling work for less than minimum wage.
|
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:20:29
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Bounding Assault Marine
|
Peregrine wrote:
The idea is that you add your own ruins ( GW or other) on top of the foundation. It's meant to fix the problem with most attempts at city tables, the fact that the ruins aren't integrated into the surrounding table very well. Or, if you don't want to have ruins, you aren't stuck with the same layout all the time, you can just take the ruin off and play with the relatively open foundation.
Plus, there's a lot more depth to those than is immediately obvious from a picture at that angle. See that wreck? That's a Rhino. Now compare the height of it to the height of some of those foundations.
Which means that table just went from 700 to 1000.
that's just a lot of money and all I am saying it it could be cheaper for what you get. I would be all over these things if they were a bit cheaper. I would have to sell an army or not buy more GW stuff to get them, as opposed to breaking up purchases between GW and FW as I do now.
GW would just take about a year long hit...
Since one effects the other, I would think competitive pricing would help.
Then again I don't run the business or know much about it, just that it puts out expensive products!
MM
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:20:38
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Peregrine wrote:Plus there's the durability factor. Your professional might be able to scratchbuild a nice table, but will you be able to play on it without destroying it? Probably not, which means you're going to have to cast it anyway.
While I agree that $500 is... unreasonable, I did a lot of quite intricate terrain back in the day and you could dump it down a staircase without much risk of damaging it. In fact, some of my Necromunda pieces made from plasticard are still in use at my old store, nearly 10 year after the glue has set on them. Durability of DIY terrain is not an issue.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/19 13:22:16
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:29:04
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Stalwart Space Marine
|
Peregrine wrote:
That depends on whether you want quality or not. You can build a 6x4 table for less than $700, but will it have the same level of detail and durability? Not very likely. If that's fine, go right ahead and buy something cheaper and accept that it won't look as nice. Or, if you want a top-quality table you'd better get used to the fact that $700 is on the low end of the time/money scale.
You insult my Terrain-Fu! Your Terrain-Fu is weak!
In all seriousness, I've made terrain that looks as good or better, holds up well, and costed me a heck of a lot less in materials. Yes, it took me time to make it. And it'll take you time to paint the FW tiles, or lay down flock, or do anything beyond base-coating it.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:31:11
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Resin isn't as expensive as forgeworld makes us think. It's not exactly a new material for making models with.
|
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500, |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:31:20
Subject: FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Douglas Bader
|
Master Melta wrote:Then again I don't run the business or know much about it, just that it puts out expensive products!
And that's the problem. You would like things to be cheaper, but some products are just inherently expensive. You have to pay the model designer, pay to make the molds, pay for the raw materials at every step of the process, pay for the shipping which isn't going to be cheap on a heavy and delicate 2x2 model, etc. And then of course you have to pay for some level of profit, since FW is not a charity devoted to helping you enjoy 40k. I obviously don't know FW's exact numbers, but there's absolutely no way they're going to be able to produce their stuff at the same price as GW's plastic kits.
His Master's Voice wrote:While I agree that $500 is... unreasonable, I did a lot of quite intricate terrain back in the day and you could dump it down a staircase without much risk of damaging it. In fact, some of my Necromunda pieces made from plasticard are still in use at my old store, nearly 10 year after the glue has set on them. Durability of DIY terrain is not an issue.
Sure it's an issue. You might be able to solve the issue, but it means putting more work (and probably money) into building solid terrain that you wouldn't necessarily have to invest in building a master model to cast in something more durable than plasticard. I can almost guarantee that by the time you've duplicated those tiles as durable scratchbuilt terrain you'll have spent enough time and effort that FW's price tag looks pretty reasonable.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/19 13:32:55
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/09/19 13:35:43
Subject: Re:FW Newsletter #315 (Get your HOT Realm of Battle Cityscape Tile talk here!)
|
 |
Lit By the Flames of Prospero
|
Peregrine wrote: Rayvon wrote:Even for a "time is money" chap, it would still make more sense to buy the cheapest right ?
That depends on whether you want quality or not. You can build a 6x4 table for less than $700, but will it have the same level of detail and durability? Not very likely. If that's fine, go right ahead and buy something cheaper and accept that it won't look as nice. Or, if you want a top-quality table you'd better get used to the fact that $700 is on the low end of the time/money scale.
And I'll believe that you can commission a custom 6x4 table at that level of quality for less than $700 when I see someone do it. And then I'll laugh at them for doing custom modeling work for less than minimum wage.
Il just agree to disagree, while your laughing at him, he is probably enjoying himself producing it.
You would have a good point if the FW ones looked much better than a cheaper one would, but thats a different arguement entirely I think.
To me, its overpriced and thats coming from a person that spends far to much already on FW resin.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/19 13:36:52
|
|
 |
 |
|