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Now, playing against my chaos friend tonight.. I admit that I dont know the chaos codex in the slightest, but this seems quite... silly. To say the least.

Warboss on bike (ws: 5 T:7 W:3) gets challenged by chaos lord with some kind of daemon weapon... Chaos lord goes first coz high initiative of lord... Scores one wound, instant death to T7 W3 warboss? What? The weapon is like str4 or 5... that seems kinda against the entire rules of 40k, requiring instant death to be 2x the str of the target... when its 2-3 less than the target and still instantly kills on one wound?

Maybe we did a rule or two wrong, but just seems beyond stupid that that can happen...

If a force weapon was used, and he had passed a psychic check then yes you have a dead warboss.

However I don't know that chaos lords have access to them? Maybe they have a weapon similar? Seems fishy to me though! I am however very unfamiliar with chaos!


not to split hairs, but I think biker boss is Toughness 6 also

If the weapon has the Instant Death rule it does not need to be Str double Tough to inflict ID. (If it was a Model with the Mark of Slaanesh their daemon weapon causes ID).

Weapons with the Force special rule do this as well, take a Space Marine Librarian. His weapon hits at Str 4 but can cause ID to any non Eternal Warrior model, as long as the psyker can wound said model.

Yes, a Force Weapon (or anything else that specifically states that it inflicts Instant Death) will Instant Kill a T6 Bike Boss since he does not carry the Eternal Warrior SR.

Could have been a Daemon Weapon of Slaanesh (which I think inflicts instant death).

There are also (or at least were in the 5th ED codex) Daemon Weapons that caused instant death regardless of toughness, and without being force weapons (so didn't need to pass a Psychic test). I'd guess there is something at least similar in the 6th Ed codex, but wait for someone that does know to tell you first. I'm just saying it's likely.

aye you're right, its T6. 3am makes me think silly things!

And it was a daemon weapon, of what god, i dont know.

But that imo, shouldnt happen. Even he, after killing me boss, was just like 'hmm, this doesnt feel right at all...'

He also then challenged my painboy, and instant killed that too (i stupidly had the warboss in a nob biker squad), and not one wound was done to the chaos lord... Then the next round instant killed two nob bikers before a power klaw and 30 boys got him coz he had nothing left to challenge..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: What makes it worse is that the chaos lord gets D6+3 attacks, then instant kills on a single wound. That imo is just beyond stupid... Can be 10 attacks on a charge, and without a character to challenge him, that can ID a whole squad :/

Apart from force weapons, a chaos lord with the mark of slaanesh and a daemon weapon has the blissgiver ability. If a weapon with this ability causes a wound then it causes instant death regardless of the victims toughness.
I guess your boss got pawned.

If a weapon causes instant death, then it causes instant death regardless of the Strength and Toughness involved. Only Eternal Warrior would have prevented it, I'm afraid.

It seems OP against multiwound models, but is hilariously overpriced against, say, a boyz squad.

So try not to get into combat with a ID Slaanesh Lord with multiwound models.

So... what gives a chaos lord attacks +d6? Wish i had a chaos codex near me!

Also the chaos lord can ID himself if he rolls a "1" on his # of attacks he gets from his daemon weapon. Since he hits himself with his own weapon if he doesn't make his invulnerable save he's toast before your boss even gets to sneeze at him.
That's the risk of using a daemon weapon.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
It seems OP against multiwound models, but is hilariously overpriced against, say, a boyz squad.

So try not to get into combat with a ID Slaanesh Lord with multiwound models.

this!

I have kicked myself in the rear for getting my nob bikers tied up with a reclusiarch/mob of DC w/ power swords, just like I have kicked myself for challenging a lib with my biker boss and getting force weapon-ed

I thought it sounded fishy as a stock lord option, but if it takes a considerable point cost for the ability... fair I'd say!

Using the old Chaos Codex- since the new one drops momentarily... ANYWAY

the Mark of Slaanesh Chaos Lord is the definition of a glass cannon. +d6 ap2 instant death causing attacks at initiative and weaponskill 6. The Slaanesh Chaos Lord is a duelist- even when he gets between 6-10 attacks on the charge, he still generally needs to hit on 3s and wound on 4s, thus many of those attacks will not actually get through. The Slaanesh Lord really needs to pick on high expensive models, where his instant death will be the most effective- like Tyranid Monsterous Creatures, Tyranid Warriors, and yes, Nobs.

But remember that he is made out of tissue paper. If he has wings or a jump pack he is packing a only t4 with a 3+/5++ armor save, and if he has Terminator Armor he'll be slow and can't sweeping advance your dudes. Also whenever he rolls a one for his Daemon Weapon he'll just punch himself in the face- and not even strike you! Just deny his challenge, and smash him apart with the rest of the unit. Nothing is making you accept these challenges!

In all honesty the Slaaneshi Lord is really not that unfair compared to the crap a lot of codexes could do. That Lord probably cost 150+ points, by contrast a 100 point Rune Priest can erase your warboss on a 3+ with a single cast of Jaws of the World Wolf. Even in the Chaos Codex be happy your opponent is bringing the lord instead of a Slaanesh Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission! For around the same points he can get a flying monsterous creature who can cast a psychic power which can move YOUR models 2d6 inches. Including- Into his charge range, out of your charge range, into pretty circles for Vindicators and Plasma Cannons or Flame Templates... you get the idea.

Daemon Weapons are fun, and they can do some amazing things when they work, but they just plain aren't very reliable, and incredibly hard to justify for a 40 point upgrade. The same with Chaos Lords, its very hard to justify them outside of friendly fun games, when you could bring a much stronger daemon prince for around the same points.

Of course all of this will change with the new codex, so everything is very exciting!

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Also the chaos lord can ID himself if he rolls a "1" on his # of attacks he gets from his daemon weapon. Since he hits himself with his own weapon if he doesn't make his invulnerable save he's toast before your boss even gets to sneeze at him.
That's the risk of using a daemon weapon.

He does not hit himself with his own weapon, he just takes a wound with no armour saves allowed. Nowhere does it say that the daemon weapon itself causes the wound; the closest it comes is the small fluff bit where it describes the daemon inside rebelling, but even that doesn't mean he pokes himself in the eye with his weapon.

Its even funnier when said T6 biker boss gets offed by a S3 Archon with a Huskblade....who then becomes a S6 Archon with a Huskblade.

Wooo! Blissgiver.

Truth be told is not that easy to kill a warboss on bike with blissgiver, assuming it's one of those 5/6 that he doesn't stuns himself (which against any warboss that = instant death from the klaw, even for nurgle) and assuming the chaos lord charged it should statistically do 0.888 wounds to the warboss, which if he has cybork body would fall to 0.6

Don't forget skulltaker too. All 4+'s are both instant death and rending. Good times. Unless you're a warboss.

On a roll of one the daemon weapon rules doesn't apply on the wound caused on the lord. As stated before he simply gets a no armor save wound which can be saved by inv.

So accept the challenge with the nob. or don't accept the challenge (and hide the nob)

Nob bikers can't accept challenges.

 Jidmah wrote:
Nob bikers can't accept challenges.

They can if they are leading a unit of Biker Boyz.

Page 413 – Reference, Profile, Codex: Orks, Warbiker Nob.
Change unit type to Bike

Wolf Guard, Nobz, Nobz Warbikers, and Crisis
Shas’vre that lead a unit (for example an Ork Nob leading Ork
Boyz, a Wolf Guard leading Grey Hunters) have (Character)
added to their unit type.

(emphasis mine)

The unit entry for Nobs does not state that one of them is the leader of the Mob. Not sure if that is an oversight or if you need an IC to lead a mob of Nobs.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
The unit entry for Nobs does not state that one of them is the leader of the Mob. Not sure if that is an oversight or if you need an IC to lead a mob of Nobs.

Already under discussion:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/479882.page

Yet you posted here that they could all ready knowing that. Good on you.

 avedominusnox wrote:
On a roll of one the daemon weapon rules doesn't apply on the wound caused on the lord. As stated before he simply gets a no armor save wound which can be saved by inv.

How does this work exactly? You roll the D6 to determine how many attacks the daemon weapon adds...on a 1, the Chaos Lord takes a single wound and loses his attacks. How would the special wound rule for Blissgiver not apply to the Chaos Lord? He suffered a wound from the weapon, so why would he be immune to the ID effect if he fails his invulnerable save? Does the codex specifically state that the blissgiver ID doesn't apply to wounds applied to the Chaos Lord (not a Chaos player, so I have no idea)?

I don't really buy the argument that the weapon doesn't actually cause the wound, because the rules for the wound being caused are part of the daemon weapon rules. That's sort of like saying a unit suffering wounds from a Whirlwind missile don't have to test for pinning because it was the resulting explosive blast that caused the wound, not the actual missile.

BEcause he does NOT suffer a wound "from the weapon", he suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed. Nothing whatsoever in the rules states that you gain any weapon properties at all.

Like Gets hot! not being S7 Ap2

nosferatu1001 wrote:
BEcause he does NOT suffer a wound "from the weapon", he suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed. Nothing whatsoever in the rules states that you gain any weapon properties at all.

Like Gets hot! not being S7 Ap2

But the weapon still actually caused the wound. Just like a plasma gun causes the wound with a Gets Hot! roll, even though its not an AP2 wound. Its not some phantom strike from the dice gods that caused the wound, its the weapon with the special property that caused it, but because of those properties (such as Gets Hot), there may be special modifications to that wound that normally don't apply to the weapon, but that doesn't change the fact that the weapon caused the wound. Gets Hot specifically states that a single wound is applied and the model's armour save can be taken.

I'm not saying Blissgiver's ID rule applies per say, I just wanted to get a better understanding of how the daemon weapon rules were worded. If the daemon weapon's rule states something like, "on a roll of 1, a single wound with no armour save possible is applied to the wielder" without a caveat about the various unique Chaos Power properties, and Blissgiver states, "Any unsaved wounds cause ID", without a caveat about the potential roll of a 1 on the added attacks, then I would have to disagree with your assessment, an unsaved wound is an unsaved wound, no matter how the weapon actually caused it. Again, the devil is in the details, and I don't have the book available to me at the moment.

Given that the new Chaos Space Marine codex drops this Saturday, I wouldn't worry about how Blissgiver is worded in the old codex so much...