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Not a big fan of stealths as the burst cannon at 18" isn't very effective and if you are close enough for fusion you're dead next turn. They need a weapon that has at least 24" range and they would become awesome. I would love to see a plasma rifle option personally. Even if it was the same cost as now a team of six plasma rifle stealths for say 300pts in an elite slot. Would you take them over say a fireknife team which can throw down more shots down range per turn per man and for a 100 pts. less. That's the big question for me. And as far as the Hammerhead goes. My money is on those forgeworld turrets as a regular option. I run 2 plasmaheads and my only gripe is that I wish the burst cannons had longer range. Any rumors about if the cib will become a regular xv8 option?

Ledabot wrote:Yea, giving the stealthys rail rifles has always been a great idea for me. They would have been better last ed with the old night fighting rules but even now, I would never take a burst cannon again on them.

I was totally against giving them rail rifles in 5th, as it would have made them a broken unit (with JSJ, you would have been able to hit units at 36" and never be fired upon). With the change in the rules to the suit, it is definintely a viable option now.

A Town Called Malus wrote:Don't forget that that 3HP 13/12/10 tank has (at the moment at least) a 3+ cover save in the open if it moves and 2+ cover behind a ruin whether it moves or not against shooting over 12" away thanks to Disruption Pods. Considering it will always have a Multi-tracker and therefore be able to move 12" and still fire 2 of its guns at full BS it becomes quite tricky for an opponent to get within that 12" to negate the Disruption Pods.

That makes our Hammerheads tougher than a Land Raider. A Railgun will roll a Glance or Penetrate on a Hammerhead 2/3rds of the time. However, in the open after moving, 1/3 of those successful shots will be negated, resulting in a 2/9 chance of losing a hull point from a successful Railgun Shot.

A Land Raider in the open has a 1/2 chance of losing a Hull Point to a Rail Gun Shot.

Behind a ruin the Land Raider will have a 1/4 chance whilst the Hammerhead has a 1/9 chance of losing a Hull Point.

Also, if you ever play against a Necron list with lots of Warriors then you'll miss not having that Submunition Round. It kills them by the handful, making it easier to wipe out entire units and deny them their get back up save.

I've had nothing but bad luck with the submunition round, as scatter dice tend to just hate me. I've found the ion cannon to be far more effective than the blast when combined with a FW gunline. I also understand that a HH is a very survivable vehicle when used properly, however it only takes that one lucky roll to destroy it. In order to bring down an XV88 team with shield drones, you need to focus a lot of fire. In the last game I played, I had a team of two 88's with two shield drones soak up three turns worht of fire from two Storm Ravens, with one surviving at game's end. My HH, on the other hand, was smashed on turn 2 with one bloodstrike missile from one of the Ravens. My problem is that both units fulfill pretty much the same role, just in a slightly different manner. What the HH really needs is a points cost reduction, or something that will truly set it apart from the 88's, aside from maneuverability (which doesn't really do much for the HH, as I'm not going to rush it up the field, railgun blazing).

On that point as well...I'd really like to see the Skyray get skyfire for its MLs and a Skyfire variant of the seeker missiles. It just might then be a viable choice for my army!

Have been thinking about Tau, but don't want to get in too deep if new stuff is on the horizon.

I take it that it would be safe to invest in Fire Warriors and basic suits until then?

Yeah, Im going to do that, and put 100$ from each paycheck for the bundle until then.

 d-usa wrote:
I take it that it would be safe to invest in Fire Warriors and basic suits until then?

Various rumours have said new Crisis, Broadside and Stealth suits are planned, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a recut Firewarrior kit with Pathfinder bits, which actually fit together better as well.

I'd say the safest options are the tanks. Rumours haven't said the Piranha, Devilfish or Hammerhead are changing, aside from the Hammerhead becoming a quad kit with all the different turrets included.

Well aslong as the new crisis suits dont have a different Base, They are fine.

I would love to see some new tau stuff. I have always been interested in getting some but there was not really enough multipart plastic goodies for me to sink my teeth into!

Lots of new suits and a recut firewarrior set (they look a little soft atm) could change that for me.

Im hearing nothing about new firewarriors.
Now a pathfinder kit i would understand.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im hearing nothing about new firewarriors.
Now a pathfinder kit i would understand.

Doing a Pathfinder kit and not doing it as a dual kit with Fire Warriors would be completely against GW's new release MO. Anything vaguely similar gets lumped into a dual kit. Considering Pathfinders are basically just Fire Warriors without the shoulder shield and armed with carbines, with options for Rail Rifles, I'd be completely shocked if we didn't get a recut Fire Warrior kit with Pathfinder bits.

That's where I was coming from with Fire Warriors probably changing - because it's a pretty solid guess. Pathfinders need a plastic kit, they're basically Fire Warriors with different options, dual kit. Likely with less models, my guess would be 8 rather than 12, with enough rifles and carbines to equip every model, and the full allotment of possible Rail Rifles.

 -Loki- wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im hearing nothing about new firewarriors.
Now a pathfinder kit i would understand.

Doing a Pathfinder kit and not doing it as a dual kit with Fire Warriors would be completely against GW's new release MO. Anything vaguely similar gets lumped into a dual kit. Considering Pathfinders are basically just Fire Warriors without the shoulder shield and armed with carbines, with options for Rail Rifles, I'd be completely shocked if we didn't get a recut Fire Warrior kit with Pathfinder bits.

That's where I was coming from with Fire Warriors probably changing - because it's a pretty solid guess. Pathfinders need a plastic kit, they're basically Fire Warriors with different options, dual kit. Likely with less models, my guess would be 8 rather than 12, with enough rifles and carbines to equip every model, and the full allotment of possible Rail Rifles.

This does indeed make sense. Of course, they could just go for finecast pathfinders as well, considering most players do not run a lot of them.
Unless of course, we get pathfinders in troop....

Another scenario might be if we get another type of infantry similar to pathfinders (I have no idea) - either an elite or fast infantry...some kind of small unit.
Then it could be a five model box that does either pathfinders or something else (similar to how you have necron dual kits).

I just don't see pathfinders mixed with firewarriors at this point, as one is a troop, and the other is not; perhaps if they add a lot of other firewarrior options - but otherwise its a lot of investment to make new molds for a unit that is already made (similar to how necron warriors remained the same).

Overall however, I think your reasoning is quite sound...(dual kits are the new future) - I just doin't think the firewwarriors will get one unless its with another "troop" class infantry unit. (new weapons could be handled with "upgrade packs" similar to the noise marine sonic weapons, etc.).

What GW wants, besides firing up the whole line, is to sell new kits...thus either new models (other recent dexes: wraiths, oblits, immortals, etc.) or new units which need new models (tomblades, stalkers, etc.).

I am perfectly happy with these scenarios...they will get lots of cash from me for it....

What I DO NOT like it when it is facilitated by making older (i.e. we already have the models) units less useful in the game (carnifex, ctan, etc.).

davethepak wrote:
I just don't see pathfinders mixed with firewarriors at this point, as one is a troop, and the other is not; perhaps if they add a lot of other firewarrior options - but otherwise its a lot of investment to make new molds for a unit that is already made (similar to how necron warriors remained the same).

The Tervigon is a HQ/Troop support creature, while the Tyrannofex is a Heavy Support gun platform. The Coven Throne is a Lord/Hero chariot mount, while the Mortis Engine is a Rare slot support chariot. Units don't have to be the same slot, or even the same role, for GW to make them into a dual kit. As long as there's common parts, they'll do it these days. The fact that you won't get as many Fire Warriors to a box is just gravy to GW - you'll be buying more kits to make the same sized quad you can now for less, which is what they want you to do.

What about, in a similar grain to the Chaos Space Marine update, we have the same Firewarrior kit now with a Finecast Pathfinder upgrade sprue ala Thousand Sons? That, to me, seems more likely than a dual kit with Firewarriors. Either that or like davethepak said, a pathfinder/new unit dual kit.

The difference is that the Thousand Son parts existed in metal before they were finecasted.

Well, I would hope that Pathfinders get something akin to the Necrons-Immortals treatment.

Warriors (Firewarriors) stay the same, but Pathfinders get a multi-part plastic kit that builds Pathfinders and, possibly, other variant "elite" units of the basic Firewarrior.

One can hope I guess

 spectreoneone wrote:


As it stands right now, with the addition of HP to vehicles and the beefing up of 2+ armor saves, Hammerheads are finding a smaller and smaller place in my army, never mind that I can get 2 Broadsides for the price of one Railhead. I just hope that when the new codex drops, they fixed the cost of many of the units. That's what we need more than anything, as many of our units have wacky point values.

I only use my Hammerheads with railguns when I am against lightly armoured foes such as Orks, Imperial Guard, Tyrannid, Eldar & Dark Eldar. I just use submunition rounds and it kills a good 8 men a turn.


More suits will be fun I think
Something I am hoping for though is more special characters for the Tau!

 spectreoneone wrote:
something that will truly set it apart from the 88's, aside from maneuverability (which doesn't really do much for the HH, as I'm not going to rush it up the field, railgun blazing).

Manoeuvrability on Hammerheads is awesome! In 'Big Guns Never Tier' scenarios, you can move your hammerheads 18" per turn and gain a 2+ cover save from most shooting. Great to claim objectives with.

Yes! Tau need more characters. Its one of the things that really separate them form the other factions. Different characters can mean giving some really interesting ways in which an army is played and i want to see some variety with my tau force when it hits.

Doubt this, but I'll believe it when I see it. I would think another Space Marine codex would come out before anything else, but you never know.

My beloved Tau have taken a backseat ever since 2008...

Ah we know, we want our tau and it seems like its always 'early next year'

Anyway. I was messing around on the GW site and I found that farsight is not able to be added to cart. I checked the uk tab and the us one but none seemed to work. the normal suits seemed fine. Anyone else got this or just me?

This could be really good for us, or just another cheep re-fincast or something equally annoying and kinda trolley on GWs part.

I hope the upgrade for pirahna is like, more options rather then gun drones, Imagine giving them smart missle systems, or sniper drones.
Infact all vehicles should be able to replace gun drones with sniper drones.

Stickmonkey wrote:"Beastly Transport" ---> Unit Type="chariot"...Size=Flying oval

I wonder then if this beastly transport could be the fw greater knarlock? Its about that size.

Being a chariot would make sense for sure. Interesting combo actually.... Chariot + Transport + Open Topped?
But then.... would it have armour and hull points, or toughness and wounds?

I could see Tau functioning based heavily on auxiliaries/allies.

You'd have the basic Tau kit, comprised of members from the actual castes of Tau society. It does certain things well and comes with various packages or upgrades you could field in the form of auxiliaries - psykers, melee, etc - all while staying within the (new) Tau codex. Of course, this is further customizable by reaching out to Allies in the main rulebook - bring some power armor and such.

It's very intriguing.

From rumors my understanding is that plastic kits are coming for the various Chaos factions/legions, wouldn't be so farfetched then to have plastic kits for Vespid, Kroot, etc, and maybe a Tau 'upgrade' kit so you could make auxiliaries from other existing 40k kits.

It might allow for other Tau castes to make an appearance as well.... bring an Air caste HQ and you get access to the Tau Navy, bring a Water caste HQ and you gain access to more allies / auxillaries, bring an Earth caste HQ and you gain access to... i dunno. tau fortifications? heavy vehicles?
And a Fire caste HQ gives you access to battlesuits.

Yay for making stuff up that would be cool!

Earth cast HQ could totally work like a techmarine. Bolster defences, repair vehicles and structures, stuff like that. The only caste that doesn't really fit 40k are the diplomatic caste (water?).

 -Loki- wrote:
The only caste that doesn't really fit 40k are the diplomatic caste (water?).

How about... having an air caste HQ allows you to bring *two* allied armies?

Or perhaps the water caste person is just an upgrade you buy for your army to let you mess with your opponent or take more allies. It wouldn't necessarily be reflected by a model on the table.

I could see us having Caste HQ's that don't take up a slot, but you can still buy them (like IG tech marines and priests). It would be a lot of fun!

Edited for wording.

A neat ability for the Water Caste would be on a roll changing the type of allies to desperate alliance thus removing many of the beneficial points. They could also make reserves more difficult as they "negotiate" with the parent faction, thus delaying reserves.

Yeah, I envisioned the Water Caste almost working as a psyker in being able to destroy the morale of the enemy, mess with their reserves, etc.

Also I could see them increasing the number of auxiliaries/allies, changing what is and isn't a scoring unit, etc.