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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What Tau need is more Anti heavy infantry.
Please let stealth suits take rail rifles.

I would rather see them buff sniper teams, maybe give the spotter a bsf and perhaps allow the drones to survive on the spotters death but lose their targetting arrays.
The price may need to be adjusted if markerlight costs change and definately will need some work if plasmaheads become codex but i really like snipers at <1k points i dont think they need much more to become viable in larger games.

Single hardpoint stealth teams would help sniper teams too, by giving you decent anti armour in the elites slot you lessen the need to have it in all three of your heavy slots.

 Archonate wrote:

The Tau codex specifically states that the use of heavy weaponry in their firewarrior squads is against Tau combat doctrine and I'm pretty sure it won't change. Nor should it. FWs should be targeting enemy infantry, not vehicles. They have other units equipped to deal with vehicles.

I'm hoping that FWs will get a new special ability or two to become a little more 'elite guerrilla commando' if you know what I mean. They are, after all, born into a life of combat training. Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

Firewarriors may not carry heavy weapons, but nothing stops them from having something like an under barrel EMP grenade launcher. That would be my suggestion, and anything else would have to come in the form of a drone.

what are the rumored stats for the Walker? Will it be more or less survivable compared to regular crisis suits? Would It be better in close combat against small arms fire, or better at long range because it will be less succeptable to outflankers?

The walkers stats are just a few pages forward. It's basically a huge bull's eye to an enemy. It's basically instant death to vehicle and flyer reserves. But it's A11 and two hull points make it as survivable as a piranha.

I would like to think that it's durable, but I can't imagine an enemy letting it survive turn 1. It'll probably cost 175 points.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

That's not all the IG does, and the Cadians are among the best-trained regiments in the Imperium. They live on what is effectively a Death World, having Fire Warriors be better because they "train a lot" doesn't make much sense.

Cadians are born into military service just like the Fire Caste. Cadia is not a death world, it is a civilized world. Thus, Cadians get their combat experience by being deployed, just like the Fire Caste.
The difference is that Tau are more tactically flexible.
Examples:
IG get shot by their own officers for falling back. Tau accept falling back as a perfectly rational course of action and often use it as a strategy to isolate and eliminate pursuing enemies.
An IG battle plan consists of blundering forward with lots of tanks and infantry. This is why they are known as "The Hammer." (Not very sophisticated, but still damaging.) Whereas the Tau battle plan is more like an elaborate football play.
This is how and why Tau are able to deal with a larger enemy force. Not because they "train a lot", but because they train smarter.
I guess this is all a matter of opinion. But the way I see it, IG are not as well organized as the typical Tau cadre.

One other idea I had for Tau Markerlights (aside from granting skyfire and eliminating old useless abilities they use to grant)

Give markerlights the ability for Precision Shots. It's a simple concept that would be easy to implement:

Lets say I have 10 fire warriors shas'la shooting at a squad of 10 guardsmen with a commisar, I paint the IG squad with 2 marker lights. I can either reduce their cover, raise my BS, or perhaps for each marker on the IG I can attempt one precision shot. So two markerlights on the IG could be any number of combination of them, 1 markerlight gives BS4 shots against the group, and the other 1 designated shot is a p-shot towards any model I choose. ect. for other mix-and match options.

I think "one marker equals one p-shot" is fair and balance, and it compliments the Tau idea of tactically dissasembling opponants. Have 6 markerlights on a a squad of IG with Harker? Harker better start getting ready to make some FNP checks. That Hive Tyrant stomping around with 3 Tyrant Guards? Markerlights + Ion Cannon equals very frusterated Tyrant Guards. (also, maybe allow "Look out sir" at normal level (+4 for normal characters, 2+ for independant characters, to keep it fair... maybe).
Thoughts?

 Archonate wrote:
But the way I see it, IG are not as well organized as the typical Tau cadre.

There's a billion guardsmen (with a B) for every fire warrior. Why bother?

Markerlight = precision shot? Railguns become the absolute best sniper weapon ever.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Markerlight = precision shot? Railguns become the absolute best sniper weapon ever.

... I see how that could be OP, maybe some sort of rule saying that Vehicle guns couldn't utilize the precision shot option?


Oh wait! I know! It allows characters or independant characters to forgo the "must roll a 6" rule, and just lets them get precision shot! There, now no tanks can get it!

 Archonate wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
Much like Cadians but with superior tactical training instead of the IGs ideology of brute force and mindlessly pushing to take ground.

That's not all the IG does, and the Cadians are among the best-trained regiments in the Imperium. They live on what is effectively a Death World, having Fire Warriors be better because they "train a lot" doesn't make much sense.

Cadians are born into military service just like the Fire Caste. Cadia is not a death world, it is a civilized world. Thus, Cadians get their combat experience by being deployed, just like the Fire Caste.
The difference is that Tau are more tactically flexible.
Examples:
IG get shot by their own officers for falling back. Tau accept falling back as a perfectly rational course of action and often use it as a strategy to isolate and eliminate pursuing enemies.
An IG battle plan consists of blundering forward with lots of tanks and infantry. This is why they are known as "The Hammer." (Not very sophisticated, but still damaging.) Whereas the Tau battle plan is more like an elaborate football play.
This is how and why Tau are able to deal with a larger enemy force. Not because they "train a lot", but because they train smarter.
I guess this is all a matter of opinion. But the way I see it, IG are not as well organized as the typical Tau cadre.

Cadia is, for all ingens and purpouses, a Death World. Planet-wide permanent combat against Chaos tends to be quite dangerous. Furthermore, what you describe as the one and only IG doctrine is only part of the IG repertoire; for every Valhallan Chenkov-charge there's Elysians, Harakoni Warhawks, Tallarn or Catachan; for every Death Korps of Krieg there's an Armageddon Steel Legion. The Imperial Guard is just as well-trained and flexible as the Fire Caste, trying to hand wave that away with "better training" doesn't sit well with me at all.

Just to talk about the Fire Warrior versus Cadian issue, the point of the game rules is to create different factions which play differently, not a variety of factions which are similar in style but wear different uniforms.

It doesn't matter that Cadians train all their life while Fire Warriors are only militia. What matters is that the Tau codex should offer a different play style with a fair points value.

Fire Warriors are not militia, they are an entire cast devoted to war, as such they too train their whole lives, as such i have no problem with the two armies having generally the same level of training, but that would still be in different doctrines. As was stated earlier Tau aren't big on holding ground and fortifying positions while most imperial guard regimen't work the exact opposite way, Elysians being one of the many exceptions simply on the grounds that the imperium is so fething HUGE.

If marker lights could affect precision shots it would be insane. It would pretty much garuntee that if Tau get the initiative they are also getting first blood and slay the warlord. That and I would take at least three single broadside units that all get the character upgrade.

Now I'm not saying its not an interesting idea, cause I do like it. It just might take a bit to hammer out.

I still kinda think that (non-networked) Markerlights will end up being similar to a Signum, where they become like a Shas'ui upgrade that just gives some sort of hit bonus... I dunno what it could be like really. Maybe just on a 4-6 it makes the squad twin-linked, or reroll 1s?

Networked Markerlights though... those are where the nifty things could be. Missile strikes, night fighting removal, Skyfire, cover save reduction... i think they'll get simplified a lot compared to what they do now.

night fighting removal is kinda of silly when you have a squad upgrade for 3 points. Lets you free up markerlights to make that one turn so devastating.

But really I hope that they change the Markerlight system. I don't think it should be used to increase BS, because then it justifies them giving a shooty army BS3 army wide. That and it'd quit a lot of the useless bickering.
"Oh, firewarriors cost more than a veteran but have way worse stats because they can get BS5. Wish my vets could get BS5. And no special weapons. Ugh. Lucky."

I digress. Markerlights are a nice little gimmick, but I don't think they should be something vital. Like the chaos boon table, to a lesser extent. I really don't like the idea of entire units and most of a FOC being dedicated to one gimmick like that. It just really ruins synergy in the army.

Maybe the Markerlights will give Twin Link or Remove Cover. Simple, efficient boosts that radically can improve the firepower of a lot of units.

I read somewhere about sm scouts getting something like markerlight and they gave twin linked. Tau ones just boosting bs would be crappy in comparison. It also induced much rage as I saw GW blatantly steal stuff from the tau and giving it to sm. Horrible horrible rumour.

I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

Ok, completely random question, but why did this thread get moved to proposed rules? Shouldn't this be in News/Rumors?

Because they always turn into wishlists and discussions of the last 5 years worth of rumours rather than the current news.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

 agnosto wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

I felt the same way about Markerlights until I began to field Tetras with Targetting Arrays. The number of Markerlight hits they generate for the cost to field them drastically improves the utility of your Markerlights. If you can work them into your line up, give 'em a try and be amazed at what your Firewarriors and Broadsides do.

Jefffar wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

I felt the same way about Markerlights until I began to field Tetras with Targetting Arrays. The number of Markerlight hits they generate for the cost to field them drastically improves the utility of your Markerlights. If you can work them into your line up, give 'em a try and be amazed at what your Firewarriors and Broadsides do.

Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed. (at leat not in my area) so no use getting accustomed to a unit I can't field anywhere but home. While I like what markerlights can do for the army, I think the BS upgrade makes markerlights too much of a target. Keep the things like firing seeker missiles or ignoring cover, but just give the army an Improved bs and watch it work like i should. For right now markerlights are something you can't depend on lasting more than a turn or two (oh that unit buffs your army to shoot better?? well I should kill that then!) and even single Shas'ui markerlights do not work too well.

Paitryn wrote:


Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed.

What else kind of play is there?

davou wrote:

Paitryn wrote:


Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed.

What else kind of play is there?

I would guess playing against a waac player. Someone that doesn't want you to use something good basicly

Paitryn wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think markerlights are key to the special nature of the Tau play style.

They give a much more interesting range of tactical options for an army based firmly on shooting, which does not have melee or magic as interesting alternatives.

I dunno, I can land have lived without depending on a 4+ hit to then make another unit less sucky. They would have to be OP for me to be interested in using them otherwise they're just wasted points when I could have something actually have a chance to damage an enemy on that 4+ instead.

I felt the same way about Markerlights until I began to field Tetras with Targetting Arrays. The number of Markerlight hits they generate for the cost to field them drastically improves the utility of your Markerlights. If you can work them into your line up, give 'em a try and be amazed at what your Firewarriors and Broadsides do.

Except for general play or competitive tourney play Tetras are not allowed. (at leat not in my area) so no use getting accustomed to a unit I can't field anywhere but home. While I like what markerlights can do for the army, I think the BS upgrade makes markerlights too much of a target. Keep the things like firing seeker missiles or ignoring cover, but just give the army an Improved bs and watch it work like i should. For right now markerlights are something you can't depend on lasting more than a turn or two (oh that unit buffs your army to shoot better?? well I should kill that then!) and even single Shas'ui markerlights do not work too well.

This is why I like my local gaming store, the guys down there don't care about winning, it's all about fun. Any chance to see new units is generally accepted, and definitely welcomed!

If this is true then I'm definitely going back to tau! Why must you always pull me back in GW?!

Please just lock this thread already.

uberjoras wrote:
Please just lock this thread already.

No way man, We're getting close!

So nobody knows nothing.