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Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

I would love an opponent to play one against me and stick it mid field forgetting I play Daemons ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 airmang wrote:
Chaos can use a sky shield very effectively. Any unit with mark of tzeentch are now getting a 3++ while on it. So things like havoks and oblits with MOT are sitting in a pretty good spot.


Feeling this is a bit iffy, as models with MOT add +1 to their Invul save, whilst the Pad gives units on top a 4++.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/20 13:56:19


   
Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





 Sigvatr wrote:
The landing's pad special rule should work exactly like the energy shield terrain piece rule in the BRB:

Every shooting attack that goes through the shield allows the target to take a 4++.



'Should' but it doesn't. The way it operates, any non close combat attack can be saved with the 4++ granted by the shield, doesnt matter where the shot originates from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I would love an opponent to play one against me and stick it mid field forgetting I play Daemons ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 airmang wrote:
Chaos can use a sky shield very effectively. Any unit with mark of tzeentch are now getting a 3++ while on it. So things like havoks and oblits with MOT are sitting in a pretty good spot.


Feeling this is a bit iffy, as models with MOT add +1 to their Invul save, whilst the Pad gives units on top a 4++.



Tis a little iffy, I wouldnt know what call to make...especially seeing as the 4++ is ranged combat only.

On the other hand, I'd hate to see a squad of Havocs with autocannons up there.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/20 15:11:25


 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Jaon wrote:


'Should' but it doesn't. The way it operates, any non close combat attack can be saved with the 4++ granted by the shield, doesnt matter where the shot originates from.



Yes, that's my point....?

GW would not sell their forts if they were balanced.

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I would love an opponent to play one against me and stick it mid field forgetting I play Daemons ^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 airmang wrote:
Chaos can use a sky shield very effectively. Any unit with mark of tzeentch are now getting a 3++ while on it. So things like havoks and oblits with MOT are sitting in a pretty good spot.


Feeling this is a bit iffy, as models with MOT add +1 to their Invul save, whilst the Pad gives units on top a 4++.


Units with the MoT add +1 to their invuln save, or gain a 6+ invuln save.

What is the units invuln save at the time you take saves? 4+, so it becomes 3+

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

 Sigvatr wrote:
 Jaon wrote:


'Should' but it doesn't. The way it operates, any non close combat attack can be saved with the 4++ granted by the shield, doesnt matter where the shot originates from.



Yes, that's my point....?

GW would not sell their forts if they were balanced.


The Models that sell the most of, your avatar pic included. Are they balanced? Do they sell alot? Good marketing ^^

   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:


The Models that sell the most of, your avatar pic included. Are they balanced? Do they sell alot? Good marketing ^^


There's a difference between models that were *made* good and new models like forts that were introduced with OP rules for the sole reason to sell more of them. I started Necrons in 3rd and do not use any flyer bullcrap, still fare well. Necron codex is more balanced than people make it out to be, people just focus on flyerspam and not other lists.

Want a terrible codex? Try GK. GK codex is like a spoiled child, they get what they want stuffed in their grey metal poopholes at low prices with some sugar on it

JUST TO CLARIFY BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME DRAMA QUEENS HERE ON DAKKA THAT MIGHT BE OFFENDED BY PINK SQUIRRELS:

I only refer to GK. Not the people playing GK. Got that? Thanks.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/20 16:51:38


   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Ha, the Hypocracy of a Cron player calling the GK codex OP. Especially when he himself admits to the cheese of Necron Flyers

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Sigvatr wrote:

There's a difference between models that were *made* good and new models like forts that were introduced with OP rules for the sole reason to sell more of them. I started Necrons in 3rd and do not use any flyer bullcrap, still fare well. Necron codex is more balanced than people make it out to be, people just focus on flyerspam and not other lists


 Grey Templar wrote:
Ha, the Hypocracy of a Cron player calling the GK codex OP. Especially when he himself admits to the cheese of Necron Flyers


I will keep the reading comprehency jokes to my own

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/20 17:35:31


   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I saw you say you don't use flyers.

You claimed the Cron codex is not OP, while the GK codex is. You didn't say "my cron list isn't OP"


Overall, the Cron codex is more OP then the GK codex. And in fact gives GKs a run for their money.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
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That sounds like an amazing plan.
Wait until my opponent sees the cunning plan, and watch the ensuing RAGE
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Grey Templar wrote:
I saw you say you don't use flyers.

You claimed the Cron codex is not OP, while the GK codex is. You didn't say "my cron list isn't OP"


Overall, the Cron codex is more OP then the GK codex. And in fact gives GKs a run for their money.


See my "spoiled kid" analogy. GK get a lot of stuff that's way undercosted, e.g. psy ammunition, psychic powers, +1 STR etc. etc.. Some stuff is free, other things are undercosted.

Necrons do not really have any undercosted upgrades despite maybe MSS and Warscythes, Necrons are strong because of the synergy they offer. A Warrior blob? Not tough at all. A blob with 1-2 GA? Pretty good. A blob with 1-2 GA and Nemesor Zandrekh? Now we're talking. A warrior blob with 1-2 GA, Nemesor and the T5? Bring it on.

GK don't need synergy at all. GK are strong because they get so much stuff for so few points. Not to mention those trololol psychic abilities.

But alas, we're going off-topic right now and both of us know that neither of us will make any compromise. You aren't the first GK player trying to use Necrons as a scapegoat to distract from your army's blatant OPness

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/20 19:34:31


   
Made in us
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar




USA

 pretre wrote:
Deployment half. So you can place it up to the middle of the board.

The negative is that someone else can take it over if they get there first.
I was playing an guy with an IG army with a small GK squad. He went first and was able to move then run to my pad (which I placed on the middle of the line marking my board half) and covered it in Warp Quake.

I just avoided the middle of the board and deep struck my Flamers into his backfield though.

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 Sigvatr wrote:

But alas, we're going off-topic right now and both of us know that neither of us will make any compromise. You aren't the first GK player trying to use Necrons as a scapegoat to distract from your army's blatant OPness


Indeed, let's not have this deteriorate into a "No, you're more op!"

Back on topic:
Can vehicles close the shield? I'd love to be able to put 3 vendettas on my opponent's forward batchelor pad give them a 4+ while in zooming mode.

It's a shame hot-shot lasguns have too short range to make use of this deep strike location.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/21 13:09:25



Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...

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Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





 Griddlelol wrote:
 Sigvatr wrote:

But alas, we're going off-topic right now and both of us know that neither of us will make any compromise. You aren't the first GK player trying to use Necrons as a scapegoat to distract from your army's blatant OPness


Indeed, let's not have this deteriorate into a "No, you're more op!"

Back on topic:
Can vehicles close the shield? I'd love to be able to put 3 vendettas on my opponent's forward batchelor pad give them a 4+ while in zooming mode.

It's a shame hot-shot lasguns have too short range to make use of this deep strike location.



On the topic of necrons being OP, I have one word: Lightning.

Moving swiftly onward, Ballads have been written that start with "Its a shame hot shot lasguns..." Its a shame they cant be given to normal guardsmen, its a shame they are mathematically equivalent to a bolter because of their reduced strength, its a shame they dont benefit from FRFSRF, the list goes on.

Vehicles can close the shield, but not when enemy models are also in contact with the skyshield.
   
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Wraith






 sudojoe wrote:


It's also a fortification. 3+ cover save. The shield bits can easily obscure any model for 3+ cover. Night fighting turn one? You have 2+/4++. Enjoy.


This is actually untrue. The profile says it's terrain type is: Unique so it doesn't follow any of the rules for fortification. You treat it as open terrain from the rule book so I'd say all you can get is a 5+ cover from being obscured. Also I can't find anywhere that says you get 3+ for being on a fortification. What page is that on? All I can tell is that you get a 4+ from being behind battlements. Where's the 3+ comming from?



PG 18, table of Cover Saves, Fortification 3+.

If you are obscured by the platform legs or the shield bits, when up, you get a cover save. The shield bits will 25% obscure almost any target, more so if they are ground pounders shooting up at it.

Forests and area terrain are a 5+, so it's definitely neither of those.

It cannot be destroyed, so it cannot be a ruined fortification and it isn't a trench or battlefield debri and/or wall. So doesn't qualify for 4+.

The only thing it does qualify as is a fortification which is a 3+.

That's given the context of all other cover. Most "soft" items are 5+, most ruined items are 4+, and this is a solid, fully operational structure, so 3+. I'd maybe argue the 4+ cover, but it's definitely not a 5+. That just makes zero sense in the context provided.

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Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut



Sweden

But wasn't the FAQ very clear on that? That Aegis defence lines were to be treated as walls and hence a 4+ cover and there is no word at all in the rulebook about what cover save battlements give to units behind them. One could argue that anything bought as a fortification should be treated as fortifications and give a 3+ cover but in that case, why are Aegis only 4? And I have been to tournaments that ruled battlements as 4+ as well. Until GW makes a new FAQ about both Bastions (they REALLY need to sit down and make easy, clear and understandable rules for how to treat bastions, battlements, multi-part buildings and weapon emplacements) and Landing Pads there will be debates about them...
   
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I dont think Tzeentch gets a 3++ save. Under the modifiers rule, "set at" happens after modifiers.

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Murfreesboro, TN

The modifier rules are talking about characteristics. Invulnerable saves are not one of the characteristics. Also by that logic stealth and shrouded wouldn't work with psychic powers that give cover saves.

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Daemonic Dreadnought






Seems the platform would also work well for deamons. Turn 1/turn 2 use it to prevent scatter, then switch it to 4+ invo to protect squishy allies like plague zombies.

Also isn't the wording any unit on the skyshield gets the bonus. The wording is a bit odd, but because it says unit and not model or majority of unit I guess that means if 1 model is on the platform everybody gets a 4+ invo v shooting.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
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Places

 Grey Templar wrote:
I've been considering getting some IG allies for my GKs. a Psyker, a veteran squad, and a squadron of LRBTs all hiding on the skyshield with the 4+ invuln.


You would need 2 troops choices , a Vet squad and a Primaris Pysker won't do it , take a Primaris pysker and 2 Infantry Platoons . In the IG a platoon is a FOC inside your FOC , Meanig 1 infantry platoon consist of the following -- 1 Platoon Command Squad -- 2-5 Infantry Squads , -----0-5 Heavy Weapons teams ---0-5 Special Weapons teams --- 0-1 Conscript squad ( can have up to 50 Conscripts ) And to my Understanding Leman Rus's can not go into buildings , the Skysheild is a building with infantry acess points , you can't drop your tanks on it sorry . But the Primaris Pysker is very weak in comparison to those of stronger armies , taking a Company Command Squad or a Lord Commisar would be better , also if you want powerful Pyskers the Pysker Battle squad for 100 points ( inculding the model upgrades to 9 pyskers 1 over seerer ) you get a Strength 9 , random AP large blast 36' range pyskic blase for 100 points , congrats you just turned Terminators into slag ....Just thought you might want a little assistance

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 Kasrkin229 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
I've been considering getting some IG allies for my GKs. a Psyker, a veteran squad, and a squadron of LRBTs all hiding on the skyshield with the 4+ invuln.


You would need 2 troops choices , a Vet squad and a Primaris Pysker won't do it , take a Primaris pysker and 2 Infantry Platoons . In the IG a platoon is a FOC inside your FOC , Meanig 1 infantry platoon consist of the following -- 1 Platoon Command Squad -- 2-5 Infantry Squads , -----0-5 Heavy Weapons teams ---0-5 Special Weapons teams --- 0-1 Conscript squad ( can have up to 50 Conscripts ) And to my Understanding Leman Rus's can not go into buildings , the Skysheild is a building with infantry acess points , you can't drop your tanks on it sorry . But the Primaris Pysker is very weak in comparison to those of stronger armies , taking a Company Command Squad or a Lord Commisar would be better , also if you want powerful Pyskers the Pysker Battle squad for 100 points ( inculding the model upgrades to 9 pyskers 1 over seerer ) you get a Strength 9 , random AP large blast 36' range pyskic blase for 100 points , congrats you just turned Terminators into slag ....Just thought you might want a little assistance


read the faq, the skyshield is not a building and has no access points. its a piece of elevated open terrain for the most part, so if the vehicle fits, it can be placed up there.

 
   
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
I've been considering getting some IG allies for my GKs. a Psyker, a veteran squad, and a squadron of LRBTs all hiding on the skyshield with the 4+ invuln.


You would need 2 troops choices , a Vet squad and a Primaris Pysker won't do it , take a Primaris pysker and 2 Infantry Platoons . In the IG a platoon is a FOC inside your FOC , Meanig 1 infantry platoon consist of the following -- 1 Platoon Command Squad -- 2-5 Infantry Squads , -----0-5 Heavy Weapons teams ---0-5 Special Weapons teams --- 0-1 Conscript squad ( can have up to 50 Conscripts ) And to my Understanding Leman Rus's can not go into buildings , the Skysheild is a building with infantry acess points , you can't drop your tanks on it sorry . But the Primaris Pysker is very weak in comparison to those of stronger armies , taking a Company Command Squad or a Lord Commisar would be better , also if you want powerful Pyskers the Pysker Battle squad for 100 points ( inculding the model upgrades to 9 pyskers 1 over seerer ) you get a Strength 9 , random AP large blast 36' range pyskic blase for 100 points , congrats you just turned Terminators into slag ....Just thought you might want a little assistance



Allies only require 1 troops choice.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






Ordinance weapons on a lrbt took a big hit and non ordinance guns got a lot better, what kind of lrbt are you thinking of running up there?

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Probably just the regular old LRBT. Best range and firepower combination.

And it doesn't need the Sky Shield to work either. An ADL works just fine too. Camo nets on the LRBTs = 3+ cover save.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






 Grey Templar wrote:
Probably just the regular old LRBT. Best range and firepower combination.

And it doesn't need the Sky Shield to work either. An ADL works just fine too. Camo nets on the LRBTs = 3+ cover save.


Works great, but can't make use of lumbering behemoth. The standard & demolisher got hit kind of hard by 6th ed, once their main gun shoots everything else has to snap fire regardless of the tank moving or not. I think just about every other main gun is ok.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Yeah, but I really just want them for the Battlecannons. And snap-fired Heavy Bolters are still useful.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






If I deep strike something onto the pad during my turn, can I shield the unit during my opponents turn?

   
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 CKO wrote:
If I deep strike something onto the pad during my turn, can I shield the unit during my opponents turn?


No, it has to be your turn for a model to swap the Skyshield's mode. And its done at the beginning of the movement phase before Reserves are rolled for.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
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Camas, WA

Generally, you cannot do things in your opponent's turn unless given specific permission.

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jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
 Sigvatr wrote:
tedurur wrote:
The Sky shield is really a terrible piece of rules writing. 75pts to give my 9 war walkers a 4++ save? A save that I can fortune?
I wouldnt bring that to anything other than a tourney and I usually dont play the softest list in friendlies...


They are banned at most tournaments, both for size and ridicolously overpowered rules. Landing Pad should be at least 150 points.


hmm maybe in Germany, not at all in the states that i've come across


They were banned at NOVA. I think size was the first concern rather than op.

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