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jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Oh I agree, however I'm not forking out an insane amount of $$ for an army that's slowly going the way of the Do-Do

I can understand the financial cost. I built my SoB when the box sets were still available for Sisters and Seraphim, and did quite well on Ebay so I didn't pay what it would cost now.

I will have to argue with them going the way of the Dodo. It should be noted that Blood Angels were a PDF only codex for quite awhile. Now look at them. Daemon Hunter were just as rare as Witch Hunters before they got a new codex and went plastic.

I'm the only sob player here in my area. But through swap shop and ebay I kept my army under 300$ with around 3500 points. They are a lot of fun and competitive. Having every unit with a 6+ invuln minimum is great. We may lack eternal warrior but the faith system is great when used right. Some of my games were luck but tabling your opponent with a "weak" army is a blast.

Same here. Only 1 person at my FLGS had even played a SoB before me. While they may not be top tier, they are far from bottom rung.

 Salted Diamond wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Oh I agree, however I'm not forking out an insane amount of $$ for an army that's slowly going the way of the Do-Do

I can understand the financial cost. I built my SoB when the box sets were still available for Sisters and Seraphim, and did quite well on Ebay so I didn't pay what it would cost now.

I will have to argue with them going the way of the Dodo. It should be noted that Blood Angels were a PDF only codex for quite awhile. Now look at them. Daemon Hunter were just as rare as Witch Hunters before they got a new codex and went plastic.

I'm sure people thought that about squats too. I actually used Witch Hunters/GK back in the day. Just the GK stuff though.
If they were to get new stuff (doubtful), however if they were to. As well as a printed codex I'll gladly agree with you.

Gw promised(har har) that they will never "squat" an army out again. hoping that stays true since sisters are great, although expensive,

To be fair, GW's reasons for a hive fleet on the squats had nothing to do with their sales. It was a combination of factors, mainly 1. When the tone of 40k changed from campy to grimdark, they found that they couldn't adjust the squats so that they fit in with the rest of the game, and 2. They had a hard time figuring out where they could go, mechanically speaking, with Squats as a race. With Sisters they don't really have that kind of reason to do so, and after the resounding successes that were GK, Necrons, and DE, I wouldn't be surprised if they realized there was an amazing potential for Sisters to become massive sellers if brought back (well, that and Sisters might help them expand their appeal to female gamers, an emerging segment of the market).

That, and if Sister's were gone from the game, who would the Grey Knights use to coat their armour in blood to fight daemons?

RegalPhantom wrote:
To be fair, GW's reasons for a hive fleet on the squats had nothing to do with their sales. It was a combination of factors, mainly 1. When the tone of 40k changed from campy to grimdark, they found that they couldn't adjust the squats so that they fit in with the rest of the game, and 2. They had a hard time figuring out where they could go, mechanically speaking, with Squats as a race. With Sisters they don't really have that kind of reason to do so, and after the resounding successes that were GK, Necrons, and DE, I wouldn't be surprised if they realized there was an amazing potential for Sisters to become massive sellers if brought back (well, that and Sisters might help them expand their appeal to female gamers, an emerging segment of the market).

That, and if Sister's were gone from the game, who would the Grey Knights use to coat their armour in blood to fight daemons?

Eh there's enough female guardsmen for the GK's to round up.

The Guardsmen men would whip the Grey Knights' asses if they tried to take the Guardsmen women.

SoB are indepensible for that reason.

 Salted Diamond wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Oh I agree, however I'm not forking out an insane amount of $$ for an army that's slowly going the way of the Do-Do

I can understand the financial cost. I built my SoB when the box sets were still available for Sisters and Seraphim, and did quite well on Ebay so I didn't pay what it would cost now.

I will have to argue with them going the way of the Dodo. It should be noted that Blood Angels were a PDF only codex for quite awhile. Now look at them.

Being Space Marines to begin with, this was a given.

Daemon Hunter were just as rare as Witch Hunters before they got a new codex and went plastic.

Sure, but in doing so, they lost much of the Inquisitional flavour that defined the army, in favour of fitting more in line with the standard Space Marine blueprint. Remember, it's no longer a "Daemonhunters" codex, but a "Grey Knights" codex. Furthermore, it's a "Grey Knights as Space Marines" codex.

They said they do regret getting rid of the squats, but their reasoning also included in their creation they were the comic relief. space dwarf viking bikers, they didnt do justice to the hearty dwarves lineiage in fantasy and lore, to the space version.

You can hardly say the sisters are being phased out when the entire range is available for sale still (albeit it direct-only).

It's very suspicious though that the entire range is still metal only, with no Finecast re-issues (I won't count the death-cult assassins/crusaders/flagellants because they are shared with Grey Knights).

Either sales are so low that they won't bother or have enough stock still or something else is afoot.

I did not include daemons or DA because I've not played them and I don't know their dexes.

Necrons
Nids
Dark Eldar
GK
BT
orks
BA
SW
SM
IG
Tau
CSM
eldar
sisters


I find that people rate IG too high. They don't bring THAT many guns and everyone gets their stuff now.

Blood Angels is da bestest.

archonisthebesthqever wrote:
Blood angels are a mid tier army at the best.The mech list that you just presented doesnt have a single answer to scythes,deamons,tyranid mcs

Baal Predators and Vindicators do just fine against Tyranid MCs and Daemons, and Razorbacks in combination with Baal Predators can do a number on flying stuff through sheer number of rending shots. With every Rhino-chassi vehicle being fast you've also got the ability to get close enough to the enemy fast enough to force the enemy fliers to overshoot you when moving.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
- OP-as-hell-tier
Grey Knights
Necrons w/ flyer spam
Imperial Guard w/ flyer spam

- Top Tier
Imperial Guard
Necrons

- Mid Tier
Blood Angels
Chaos Daemons
Chaos Space Marines
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Tau

Bottom Tier
Black Templars
Dark Angels
Eldar
Tyranids

Wait-these-are-still-an-army? Tier
Sisters of Battle

Orks apparently transcend tiers and have reached a competitive nirvana

Awsome! Grots ftw!

In 6th ed Grey Knights took a nerf, and while they are still very strong, I must agree with the above post. They're no longer "God" tier. Necrons have that for the moment.

I was going to run Nids, but this list makes me want to start SoB a lot more. Raping face with the underdog = cooler than being "top tier". Plus my local shop stocks them for some bizarre reason.

For people who keep putting Tyranids at the bottom, I'm wondering if they've actually fought a Tyranid army to take advantage of 6th editions advantageous changes for them, or just the usual Hive Guard spamfests from 5th edition. Because Tyranids definitely aren't bottom teir anymore. They're not top, but they're in the upper mid teir.

RegalPhantom wrote:
Necrons
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves
Grey Knights
Blood Angels

For the top 5 codex's that is pretty much the order.
Though perhaps gk are above sw, it is very close
Though, i'm not really enveloped in the 6th edition meta, as i kinda am taking a break from 40k

Maybe it's a dumb question, considering how rarely they see play, but where do you guys think the Forgeworld lists rank on this tier listing? With FW stuff becoming increasingly acceptable for competitive play, I think they might be worth consideration.

 TurtleFlop wrote:
Maybe it's a dumb question, considering how rarely they see play, but where do you guys think the Forgeworld lists rank on this tier listing? With FW stuff becoming increasingly acceptable for competitive play, I think they might be worth consideration.

Krieg - bottom tier. The only thing it did better than codex IG with FW units was powerblobs, and 6th edition killed powerblobs leaving a list that's just codex IG with all the best units removed.

Armored Battlegroup - bottom tier. 9999999999 Leman Russes looks cool until you realize your only scoring units are basic IG infantry squads in Chimeras and your chances of winning an objective mission without tabling your opponent are nonexistent.

Elysians - mid-tier, will be top-tier if/when FW gives them an exception to the 6th edition reserve rules (IMO, something like drop pods get where reserves arrive turn 1) so you can actually make a pure Elysian list with Valkyries and deep striking infantry without needing a "standard" IG element to start the game on the table. Even so they're still a solid army, and good as allies.

Traitor IG - bottom tier. Same problem as Krieg, it's just codex IG with all the good stuff removed.

Siege Assault Vanguard - mid-tier. It's a C:SM army (mid-tier) with some advantages (squadrons of tanks, siege shields, etc) and some disadvantages (the "must capture to win" objective), which pretty much average out to "not better or worse, just different" compared to C:SM.

Tyrant's Legion - mid-tier. Good concept made redundant by allies, but still a good combination. Like the other marine-based army, it isn't really better or worse than anything an IG/C:SM list could do, it's just different.

Eldar Corsairs - mid-tier. Better than standard Eldar, but probably not better enough to get them out of mid-tier and competitive with the top armies.

Dread Mob - mid-tier. Worth looking at as an Ork player, but probably not enough of an upgrade to change their mid-tier status. Also, like the Armored Battlegroup, suffers from a lack of scoring units if you emphasize the list's purpose of "lots of vehicles".

 -Loki- wrote:
For people who keep putting Tyranids at the bottom, I'm wondering if they've actually fought a Tyranid army to take advantage of 6th editions advantageous changes for them, or just the usual Hive Guard spamfests from 5th edition. Because Tyranids definitely aren't bottom teir anymore. They're not top, but they're in the upper mid teir.

I tabled a Hive spam a couple of weeks ago with my SoB. Exorcists, rending Retributors, and Saint Celestibe (auto wound on 4+ in CC) are effective counters to them come to find out.

 TurtleFlop wrote:
Elysians - mid-tier, will be top-tier if/when FW gives them an exception to the 6th edition reserve rules (IMO, something like drop pods get where reserves arrive turn 1) so you can actually make a pure Elysian list with Valkyries and deep striking infantry without needing a "standard" IG element to start the game on the table. Even so they're still a solid army, and good as allies.

I would love to get an exception to the reserve rules, but I have adapted my Elysians to use 2 CCS with beacons and a ground sensor hidden on the board. That allows the 2 platoons and sentinels to reserve. Everything else has changed to ride in a flyer.

 Salted Diamond wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
For people who keep putting Tyranids at the bottom, I'm wondering if they've actually fought a Tyranid army to take advantage of 6th editions advantageous changes for them, or just the usual Hive Guard spamfests from 5th edition. Because Tyranids definitely aren't bottom teir anymore. They're not top, but they're in the upper mid teir.

I tabled a Hive spam a couple of weeks ago with my SoB. Exorcists, rending Retributors, and Saint Celestibe (auto wound on 4+ in CC) are effective counters to them come to find out.

Like I said - something that takes advantage of 6th, not Hivespam. Because it's pretty bad in 6th. Psychic choir Tyranids, for example, which people have been saying have been wrecking tournaments.

 -Loki- wrote:
For people who keep putting Tyranids at the bottom, I'm wondering if they've actually fought a Tyranid army to take advantage of 6th editions advantageous changes for them, or just the usual Hive Guard spamfests from 5th edition. Because Tyranids definitely aren't bottom teir anymore. They're not top, but they're in the upper mid teir.

^ This. Every time I see nids in the bottom tier it makes me wish i could challenge that person to a game.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Salted Diamond wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
For people who keep putting Tyranids at the bottom, I'm wondering if they've actually fought a Tyranid army to take advantage of 6th editions advantageous changes for them, or just the usual Hive Guard spamfests from 5th edition. Because Tyranids definitely aren't bottom teir anymore. They're not top, but they're in the upper mid teir.

I tabled a Hive spam a couple of weeks ago with my SoB. Exorcists, rending Retributors, and Saint Celestibe (auto wound on 4+ in CC) are effective counters to them come to find out.

Like I said - something that takes advantage of 6th, not Hivespam. Because it's pretty bad in 6th. Psychic choir Tyranids, for example, which people have been saying have been wrecking tournaments.

I have to ask though, are the psyker powers being used in the codex, or the ones in the 6th rulebook?

I run Biomancy on all of my MCs. A S9/T9 Swarmlord with Eternal warrior and either FnP/IWND or with D3 extra attacks and initiative. MEAN.

Think about a Tervigon with CC and Warp speed. If you charge and use Smash then you've got potential for 9 S10 AP2 attacks that reroll armour pen. MEAN

And that is pretty scary, but when determining the strength of a codex it should be by it's own feet, not using allies/fortifications/the generic powers as a crutch.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
And that is pretty scary, but when determining the strength of a codex it should be by it's own feet, not using allies/fortifications/the generic powers as a crutch.

Have to disagree. Like I said, built for 6th edition. Ignoring the new psychic powers is not building for 6th edition. Tyranids got a huge boost, particularly massed psyker lists. If people are still playing Hivespam, then they're not building for 6th edition, and it's going to show, because they're not taking advantage of changes that were beneficial to Tyranids. The fact that Tyranids are now mid to upper mid teir, from bottom teir, shows just how little they need allies and fortifications. They're still not playing with the top dogs when built for 6th, but I never claimed they were.

I agree 100% on the allies and fortifications. I'm not as sure I agree about the psychic powers, but I see what you're saying.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
And that is pretty scary, but when determining the strength of a codex it should be by it's own feet, not using allies/fortifications/the generic powers as a crutch.

It is using the strength of the codex - the codex allows that many psykers with access to the tables needed.

It isn't something all armies can do, so I think this is a valid point.